The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[Too Many Hats]

Celestial Park looks very well done in the videos I’ve watched. In many photos posted to WDWMagic, it looks unfinished and ugly.

I’m sure there are corners of Epic that aren’t ready for prime time or frankly were not sufficiently funded and may present sightline issues for the foreseeable future, but overall the park looks competently built.

I agree that the “portals” approach is a big swing. But I’m glad they took that swing; this could be the final nail in the coffin for the “immersive IP land” era, or it could cement it as the way to do theme parks going forward.

And I share the concern that Celestial Park may feel like the Americana with a Bellagio knockoff looking over it. We shall see. Some of the architecture actually reminds me of the pier area at DCA (far from my favorite land at a Disney park). It’s just a very different approach to a theme park, essentially having CityWalk right in the center of the park.

Anyway I’m excited to check it out. IMO Epic looks spectacular.

 

[Rich T]

Celestial Park looks very well done in the videos I’ve watched. In many photos posted to WDWMagic, it looks unfinished and ugly.

I’m sure there are corners of Epic that aren’t ready for prime time or frankly were not sufficiently funded and may present sightline issues for the foreseeable future, but overall the park looks competently built.

I agree that the “portals” approach is a big swing. But I’m glad they took that swing; this could be the final nail in the coffin for the “immersive IP land” era, or it could cement it as the way to do theme parks going forward.

And I share the concern that Celestial Park may feel like the Americana with a Bellagio knockoff looking over it. We shall see. Some of the architecture actually reminds me of the pier area at DCA (far from my favorite land at a Disney park). It’s just a very different approach to a theme park, essentially having CityWalk right in the center of the park.

Anyway I’m excited to check it out. IMO Epic looks spectacular.

I do disagree that Celestial Park looks or feels like a Citywalk; it’s far too Maxfield Parrish for that!

The big factor that videos can’t really convey is the lively, delightful way everything in Celestial Park feels interconnected around you, with the fountains, lights, and music in the entire land interacting, and using the Portal themes as the basis for special mini-shows. When the CP music takes on a sudden extra depth and volume and starts playing music from Mario, Potter, HTTYD or Darkmoore, it means the big fountain is presenting something special. At night when all the CP lighting takes part, it becomes truly otherworldly in the best way possible.

Walking through Celestial Park at night makes it very hard to leave at closing: it becomes the emotional equivalent of DL’s Main Street. They should play a recording of Hiccup, Dracula, Mario, and Hermione singing a goodbye song.

Dracula: “Be careful drivin’ home!”

 

[PiratesMansion]

I’m afraid to ask: why is Small World closed for 4 months? I know they’re adding an additional verse to the song, but 4 months? Did I miss a Disney parks blog post?

It also closed earlier than usual before the Holiday overlay.

Micechat said something about general maintenance, Yada Yada. They're also adding a Coco vignette. Beyond that, if anyone knows they've been radio silent.

I'm personality more concerned about what appears to be an extensive Tiki Room refurb that people have been radio silent about. Based on what I saw in December, the attraction definitely needs it, but I'm a bit nervous that it's barely being discussed or acknowledged.

 

[truecoat]

I think the Disneyland forum is about as dead as it's ever been. The calm before the storm.

 

[Too Many Hats]

I do disagree that Celestial Park looks or feels like a Citywalk; it’s far too Maxfield Parrish for that!

The big factor that videos can’t really convey is the lively, delightful way everything in Celestial Park feels interconnected around you, with the fountains, lights, and music in the entire land interacting, and using the Portal themes as the basis for special mini-shows. When the CP music takes on a sudden extra depth and volume and starts playing music from Mario, Potter, HTTYD or Darkmoore, it means the big fountain is presenting something special. At night when all the CP lighting takes part, it becomes truly otherworldly in the best way possible.

Walking through Celestial Park at night makes it very hard to leave at closing: it becomes the emotional equivalent of DL’s Main Street. They should play a recording of Hiccup, Dracula, Mario, and Hermione singing a goodbye song.

Dracula: “Be careful drivin’ home!”

Don’t get me wrong, I think Epic looks spectacular and my impression of Celestial Park is that it achieves what Universal Creative set out to do (“put the park back in theme park”).

Explicitly comparing it to CityWalk (or DTD) might be a mistake (due to the baggage of those places), but essentially it is a large shopping/dining space with a hotel attached. I can’t think of another U.S. park set up like this. I’m not knocking it, and I’m optimistic they’ve pulled it off. I’ll have to judge for myself.

But you’ve compared it to Main Street USA; that comparison had not occurred to me. You might be right, but my gut reaction is that CP is fundamentally different because it lacks the time/place specificity of Main Street USA (or the thematic immersion of Port of Entry, etc).

I agree that the fountains and music go a long way toward creating something special.

 

[Too Many Hats]

It also closed earlier than usual before the Holiday overlay.

Micechat said something about general maintenance, Yada Yada. They're also adding a Coco vignette. Beyond that, if anyone knows they've been radio silent.

I'm personality more concerned about what appears to be an extensive Tiki Room refurb that people have been radio silent about. Based on what I saw in December, the attraction definitely needs it, but I'm a bit nervous that it's barely being discussed or acknowledged.

Now I’m worried about both attractions, ha.

Small World has been struggling with maintenance issues since covid, so it’s plausible this is just an extensive refurb. No idea what’s happening with Tiki Room.

To put this out there… both attractions have cultural sensitivity issues. As much as I love the 1960s vibes, I’m not opposed to minor updates that better reflect our world today rather than the early 60s. I just fear modern WDI is (*mostly) incapable of producing anything with the charm and visual humor of Marc Davis’s vignettes or the wit of the Tiki Room’s script. I’m not sure they even see wit, charm, and humor as priorities. To say nothing of the IP mandate (personally I’m not interested in “The Enchanted Encanto Room”).

*That said, WDI did a fantastic job with the Adventureland Treehouse. So maybe I should be less pessimistic. I’d trust the treehouse team to reimagine Tom Sawyer Island. Not sure I’d trust the “hen for a ten” team to reimagine trash cans.

 

[Rich T]

Don’t get me wrong, I think Epic looks spectacular and my impression of Celestial Park is that it achieves what Universal Creative set out to do (“put the park back in theme park”).

Explicitly comparing it to CityWalk (or DTD) might be a mistake (due to the baggage of those places), but essentially it is a large shopping/dining space with a hotel attached. I can’t think of another U.S. park set up like this. I’m not knocking it, and I’m optimistic they’ve pulled it off. I’ll have to judge for myself.

But you’ve compared it to Main Street USA; that comparison had not occurred to me. You might be right, but my gut reaction is that CP is fundamentally different because it lacks the time/place specificity of Main Street USA (or the thematic immersion of Port of Entry, etc).

I agree that the fountains and music go a long way toward creating something special.

I see what you mean about Citywalk now. The big similarity in function I see between Main Street (including the hub) and Celestial Park is the way CP gives Epic a “home base” central gathering place to branch out from, which really helps give the place a feeling of instant friendliness and community.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Now I’m worried about both attractions, ha.

Small World has been struggling with maintenance issues since covid, so it’s plausible this is just an extensive refurb. No idea what’s happening with Tiki Room.

To put this out there… both attractions have cultural sensitivity issues. As much as I love the 1960s vibes, I’m not opposed to minor updates that better reflect our world today rather than the early 60s. I just fear modern WDI is (*mostly) incapable of producing anything with the charm and visual humor of Marc Davis’s vignettes or the wit of the Tiki Room’s script. I’m not sure they even see wit, charm, and humor as priorities. To say nothing of the IP mandate (personally I’m not interested in “The Enchanted Encanto Room”).

*That said, WDI did a fantastic job with the Adventureland Treehouse. So maybe I should be less pessimistic. I’d trust the treehouse team to reimagine Tom Sawyer Island. Not sure I’d trust the “hen for a ten” team to reimagine trash cans.

I totally understand the cultural sensitivity issues, but I'm not really sure there's a culturally sensitive way to do a Tiki Room. Tiki culture is basically made-up exoticism, and as a result it could be seen by some as unPC-able, so to speak, just inherently as a concept. I really, really am hoping it's basically grandfathered in, but who really knows anymore.

Whereas IASW, while not perfect, could easily be redone to better fit current needs without truly altering the core or central message of the attraction.

 

[mickEblu]

Whereas IASW, while not perfect, could easily be redone to better fit current needs without truly altering the core or central message of the attraction.

How? By putting all the dolls in their countries business casual attire? All the American dolls can wear joggers.

 

[Disney Vault]

Disney announced previously they would be spending $60 billion for their parks and resorts devision over the next ten years. They most recently announced they are spending $30 billion on their US parks and resorts.

I wonder if this newest number is still a reference to the 10 years. And if so that means DL and WDW will be getting $30 billion while the cruise line, Paris, Hong Kong, and Shanghai get the other $30 billion

 

[PiratesMansion]

How? By putting all the dolls in their countries business casual attire? All the American dolls can wear joggers.

I imagine ideas of the world have changed a bit since the 60s and some costumes might change without going that far. Not advocating for the change, just pointing it out. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[mickEblu]

I imagine ideas of the world have changed a bit since the 60s and some costumes might change without going that far. Not advocating for the change, just pointing it out. Nothing more, nothing less.

No I get it. Just think it’s kind of tough to do IASW without “stereotypes.”

The world has changed but the attire worn by the dolls has always been traditional/ folk costumes or cultural wear and not modern. In that sense, nothing has changed.

 

[Rich T]

I imagine ideas of the world have changed a bit since the 60s and some costumes might change without going that far. Not advocating for the change, just pointing it out. Nothing more, nothing less.

Everything Disney does lately strikes me as so timid and bland. Who are they afraid of offending at this point? Who actually rides iasw, experiences its wonderful art direction, dazzling colors and uplifting message of cooperation and peace… and comes away saying, “That was so offensive!” Let them be offended. All art offends someone.

If they ever really do build a Villains Land, I cannot wait to see what today’s Disney-the same company that thinks Pirates should host furniture auctions, the trees on Snow White were too scary, and that TBA required zero villainy—comes up with. I’m picturing the Stepsisters getting a major fashion show—in which they’re not allowed to say anything mean.

Meanwhile, I love the fact that at Epic Universe guests can laugh and scream on a genuinely fun-scary ride as a werewolf yelling “Fresh meat!!!” chases them through a castle.

 

[PiratesMansion]

For the record, I don't actually think they're going to change IASW in that way. I was responding to @Too Many Hats, who was the person who actually brought up IASW hypothetical changes that probably aren't happening, at least immediately, beyond adding Coco figures. My actual concern was about this Tiki Room refurb that appears semi extensive that no one is talking about at all apart from putting in on the calendar.

I think we can infer where Disney stands from, at minimum, when they were like "we thought it was ICKY that there was an openly murderous bride in the ride about dead people," among many other recent examples.

@Rich T, part of it stem back to current Disney's core issue, that they don't understand their own product and have come to believe the marketing that their parks are only for the world's most sensitive five year olds (which doesn't also square away with the desire to build a bar every 50 feet, but whatever). BUT Universal also has an easier time of just letting loose and not worrying about offending everyone for a number of reasons:
1.) Universal's first breakout hits were in then-boundary pushing Horror features, not family friendly features.
2.) Just as everyone has assumed that Disney parks are only for oversensitive five year olds, most people assume there's little reason to bring a kid to Universal before they're around 10 or so. Older target audience, less potential for people to get offended.
3.) Universal didn't really build a whole lot of attractions prior to the 90s, and
4.) Because everything was based on IP, there wasn't as much freedom to freestyle into potentially outdated storytelling tropes.
5.) Universal has straight up gotten rid of the majority of its older attractions that did exist
6.) Unless their leadership has changed recently and I haven't clocked it, their parks are more likely to be run by actual park-oriented people.

So there are a lot of things that make Universal much less susceptible to falling into this line of thinking.

 

[Agent H]

What major changes could they make to the tiki room besides changing it to Moana? If that was happening they surely would have announced it by now.

 

[Touchdown]

What major changes could they make to the tiki room besides changing it to Moana? If that was happening they surely would have announced it by now.

Change it to Stich?

Waiting to see how well the remake does this summer. They already have the plan for the animatronic thanks to Japan.

 

[Agent H]

Change it to Stich?

Waiting to see how well the remake does this summer. They already have the plan for the animatronic thanks to Japan.

Whether it’s stitch or Moana if it was a big change I imagine they would have announced it by now. I can’t imagine any other changes they could make that would be something to get upset over.

 

[Rich T]

…
1.) Universal's first breakout hits were in then-boundary pushing Horror features, not family friendly features.
2.) Just as everyone has assumed that Disney parks are only for oversensitive five year olds, most people assume there's little reason to bring a kid to Universal before they're around 10 or so. Older target audience, less potential for people to get offended.
…

Here’s the thing that really drives me up the wall about current Disney:

Walt Disney’s classic creations (including Disneyland) became popular, beloved and iconic BECAUSE they didn’t shy away from terror and darkness and scary villains and death. They respected their audience—kids and adults—by telling gripping stories, knowing that overcoming fear is an important part of childhood, and that fairytales are timeless and evergreen for a reason.

Some of Disney’s current creators still understand that. But the company, for whatever reason, seems obsessed with sanding down everything into bland applesauce that comes in two flavors: unfunny smug “humor” and characters endlessly spouting “Dreams! Magic! Dreams! Magic!” without it actually meaning anything.

And what makes Epic U. different from any other Universal park is that it really has the sense of family fun, heart, and genuine adventure that Disney used to be so good at. Still aimed at a slightly older crowd, but by far their most family-friendly park yet. Even Dark Universe has humor, heart and great storytelling, and its Monsters ride will provide a ton of kids (and teens and adults) with a just-right adventure in fear that they can face, conquer, and become super-fans of.

 

[Giss Neric]

One thing I didn't like about the portals in Epic is people tend to hang out and "clog" those portals to get out of the sun. It will probably be worse if it rains. There are alternate pathways though.

 

[Rich T]

One thing I didn't like about the portals in Epic is people tend to hang out and "clog" those portals to get out of the sun. It will probably be worse if it rains. There are alternate pathways though.

Hadn’t thought of that; I didn’t notice too many shade seekers on my visits… so far… but, it sure is a challenge to enter or exit without getting into someone’s vlog, selfie or group portrait!