The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[Disney Analyst]

ABC News was interviewing James Cameron and Bob Ballard. Interesting from the technical angle. Carbon fiber composite hull delaminated, most likely knew it was starting to happen, they had dropped the weights but had no safety redundancies. There was knowledge that it might not be rigid enough and wasn't the solid contiguous material used in other submersibles. Carbon fiber hulls fatigue like a balloon being inflated and deflated with every dive so to some it wasn't a surprise that it eventually failed.

I know they likely signed their lives away when agreeing to this trip, but I hope the families can sue the company from all the information now coming out.

There needs to be some serious reform of any industry wanting to take tourists to unimaginably harsh environments.

 

[Parteecia]

I know they likely signed their lives away when agreeing to this trip, but I hope the families can sue the company from all the information now coming out.

There needs to be some serious reform of any industry wanting to take tourists to unimaginably harsh environments.

James Cameron made the point that the submersible field is mature and this company stood out for not following known good practices. In their small world they all knew P.H., the Titanic specialist. What went unsaid was whether any of them told him he was taking serious chances going down in that particular submersible.

 

[Disney Analyst]

James Cameron made the point that the submersible field is mature and this company stood out for not following known good practices. In their small world they all knew P.H., the Titanic specialist. What went unsaid was whether any of them told him he was taking serious chances going down in that particular submersible.

 

[Parteecia]

Yup, he said both tragedies were because the men in charge did not heed multiple warnings, whether about ice fields or design.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

...tragedies were because the men in charge did not heed multiple warnings...

Sounds like current Disney leadership as well as the earlier regime.

 

[Californian Elitist]

How could anyone be okay with getting into something that’s been said to not be safe MULTIPLE TIMES to go deep diving into the ocean? No example of good reasoning whatsoever there.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I feel so horrible for the young man on board. 19 is so young.

 

[Disney Analyst]

But also, let's not forget some perspective, as tragic as it is.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

But also, let's not forget some perspective, as tragic as it is.

I agree but isn’t it also on the same corporate media organizations and their production staff to show some introspection/humble themselves at their own bias(es) than blame the audience for inequities in their own coverage?

Consumers will consume what is put on their plate. And corporate media has a role beyond that of a bystander in dictating these priorities - and with it the attention/resources of policymakers.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I agree but isn’t it also on the same corporate media organizations and their production staff to show some introspection/humble themselves at their own bias(es) than blame the audience for inequities in their own coverage?

Consumers will consume what is put on their plate. And corporate media has a role beyond that of a bystander in dictating these priorities - and with it the attention/resources of policymakers.

It's a mix of it all. Unequal reporting, a lack of care or knowledge by many of us in the general public, it's also on the organizations and governments, who allow this to happen, don't resolve why it is happening, and offer little to no assistance when tragedy strikes.

 

[Parteecia]

Now they're saying that it may have imploded on Sunday, around the time it lost communication.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Now they're thinking that it may have imploded on Sunday, around the time it lost communication.

That’s what I’m thinking. It would explain why they couldn’t hear any sounds from the submersible or the passengers…both were gone.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Now they're thinking that it may have imploded on Sunday, around the time it lost communication.

Been my theory all along. Also interesting hearing James Cameron mention it seemed like they were trying to ascend at the time, due to some sort of emergency.

As he mentions in his interview, they had a system that would warn them if their hull was fracturing, and it's possible that went off, they started to try and get back, and then... communication ended.

Timestamped when he talks about the issues with the sub, and that the community has reason to believe they were trying to manage an emergency:

 

[Disney Analyst]

And there you have it. I would bet they wanted to find confirmation before announcing this, but seems to me they knew what happened, and when it happened.

 

[TP2000]

ABC News was interviewing James Cameron and Bob Ballard. Interesting from the technical angle. Carbon fiber composite hull delaminated, most likely knew it was starting to happen, they had dropped the weights but had no safety redundancies. There was knowledge that it might not be rigid enough and wasn't the solid continuous material used in other submersibles. Carbon fiber hulls fatigue like a balloon being inflated and deflated with every dive so to some it wasn't a surprise that it eventually failed.

Fascinating. Almost like the lesson that had to be learned about stress fatigue with Britain's Comet jetliners.

And yet... I still can't get over how tacky this kind of tourism is. I don't care how much money you have, it just seems tacky.

 

[TP2000]

There needs to be some serious reform of any industry wanting to take tourists to unimaginably harsh environments.

How do you do that hundreds of miles out in international waters though? And not just way out international waters, but two miles down? The U.S. Coast Guard only has authority 200 miles (Yes, I Googled) from land. Beyond that, it's anyone's game.

I'm not sure what governing body would even have legal authority for "reform" or saying what you can do way out there in open ocean.

I think the key takeaway here is... Don't go on submarine trips two miles underwater a thousand miles offshore to poke around a graveyard. It's not just tacky and disrespectful of the dead, it's incredibly dangerous. I can only take comfort in the fact their death was instantaneous and they didn't suffer.

In other news @Disney Analyst , my Canadian bloodline in me was proud to see the Canadian Coast Guard and Royal Canadian Navy swoop in to assist and help so fast with this. It was 1,000 miles from Boston, but only 400 miles from Newfoundland. Well done, Canada.

 

[Disney Analyst]

How do you do that hundreds of miles out in international waters though? And not just way out international waters, but two miles down? The U.S. Coast Guard only has authority 200 miles (Yes, I Googled) from land. Beyond that, it's anyone's game.

I'm not sure what governing body would even have legal authority for "reform" or saying what you can do way out there in open ocean.

I think the key takeaway here is... Don't go on submarine trips two miles underwater a thousand miles offshore to poke around a graveyard. It's not just tacky and disrespectful of the dead, it's incredibly dangerous.

In other news @Disney Analyst , my Canadian bloodline in me was proud to see the Canadian Coast Guard and Royal Canadian Navy swoop in to assist and help so fast with this. It was 1,000 miles from Boston, but only 400 miles from Newfoundland. Well done, Canada.

I mean, obviously you can’t stop anyone from
going out and doing weird stuff, but if legitimate companies are doing it, they are registered somewhere, and whatever country they are registered in should regulate them to some sort of industry standard.

 

[TP2000]

I mean, obviously you can’t stop anyone from
going out and doing weird stuff, but if legitimate companies are doing it, they are registered somewhere, and whatever country they are registered in should regulate them to some sort of industry standard.

I get where you're coming from, and that exact thought crossed my mind while watching the news this afternoon.

But that's where I thought "Hey, it's a no-man's land out there. No one owns it, no one is in charge, laws don't apply."

I think that's how they were able to sell these trips. Because they were mostly unregulated and no one had authority over them for the key part of their paid service; a submarine ride 2 miles underwater in international waters to look at the Titanic.

Now once their base ship got within US waters and sailed back into port, they had to have licenses and insurance and proper lighting and fire extinguishers and life saving supplies on board, etc. But the actual submarine that was being used a thousand miles out in the Atlantic where no nation has authority? That part is totally unregulated and there's not much you can do about it.

Or so much as I can figure. If anyone knows differently about some "Global Tourist Submarine Authority", I'd love to know about it.

 

[donaldtoo]

The “tourists”, apparently, had no clue at the time, but, they basically paid 250K for funerals at sea.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I get where you're coming from, and that exact thought crossed my mind while watching the news this afternoon.

But that's where I thought "Hey, it's a no-man's land out there. No one owns it, no one is in charge, laws don't apply."

I think that's how they were able to sell these trips. Because they were mostly unregulated and no one had authority over them for the key part of their paid service; a submarine ride 2 miles underwater in international waters to look at the Titanic.

Now once their base ship got within US waters and sailed back into port, they had to have licenses and insurance and proper lighting and fire extinguishers and life saving supplies on board, etc. But the actual submarine that was being used a thousand miles out in the Atlantic where no nation has authority? That part is totally unregulated and there's not much you can do about it.

Or so much as I can figure. If anyone knows differently about some "Global Tourist Submarine Authority", I'd love to know about it.

But I also should say I agree with your last sentiment of your initial reply. Why are people going out there in the first place? Research vessels are one thing… but tourists?

Oi vey.