The math has to be wrong

LuvtheGoof

Title Removed by Request
Premium Member
The main risk going through a broker is not a scam as such, but the owner defaulting on the loan or maintenance fees, so DVC cancels their reservations. When that happens the broker will reimburse the renter, but may not be able to get a replacement room.
True, that is a possible drawback, but I would think that when going through David's, that it would be a rare occurrence. Since we already own, we've never rented, but if there ever came a time that we couldn't use our points, we would certainly use an agent like David's to rent them out. Of course, we hope that never happens!
 

nickys

Premium Member
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True, that is a possible drawback, but I would think that when going through David's, that it would be a rare occurrence. Since we already own, we've never rented, but if there ever came a time that we couldn't use our points, we would certainly use an agent like David's to rent them out. Of course, we hope that never happens!
I think I’ve seen reports of two instances of it happening in about five years?

We rented out points this year through David’s and they were really easy to work with. From answering all my “what if” questions on chat, to talking me through the renter’s address that I couldn’t work out (it was a stupid name for a city anyway lol!).
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
Despite having no plans to go in the near future, I like to put together a package on the Disney website every once in awhile just to see what the prices are. Last time I checked, the hotel would cost anywhere from 2,200 to 3000ish for a five night stay (depending on which resort I would hypotheticaly pick). On another thread I saw someone mention how much they save renting points, so I though, what the heck. It probably won't save me anything because I always do standard rooms, but I'll look.

If the calculator is right, renting points could possibly cut the cost in half. As in, I could get a better room at the Beach Club, my dream resort, for less than a room at POR. That just can't be right. There's no way. There has to be some downside to this I'm not seeing, or the calculator has to be wrong and showing me the price for one night. If through some miracle that calculator is actually right, that would be such a game changer for me.
The only downside is you need a lot of heads up to find a matching booking. I've been trying the last three years to rent points, but I'm never early enough. My family availability only comes together a 4 or 5 months in advance.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
True, that is a possible drawback, but I would think that when going through David's, that it would be a rare occurrence. Since we already own, we've never rented, but if there ever came a time that we couldn't use our points, we would certainly use an agent like David's to rent them out. Of course, we hope that never happens!
I have heard a number (not a lot, 3 or 4 maybe) stories of things going wrong with a David's reservation. Things like the owner changes the reservation at the last minute. In every case I have heard of, David's took care of the person who was not at fault - finding them a room, either a DVC or otherwise, refunding them the difference, and basically doing everything in their power to make it right. THEN they go after the party at fault. It was a not a "oh sorry, something went wrong, here is your money back" leaving a family on vacation with no accommodations. They worked to take care of that family.
 

FCivish3

Member
Just so you can compare the Online Points Brokers (many of who do a very fine job - and I often go through them myself) to renting from an owner, I will use myself as an example. (Please do not contact me through this message. I AM NOT trying to rent anything out here, and have actually already rented out everything I need to. I am just teaching about renting from an owner.)

When I rent out points, I generally shoot for the Fall Food and Wine Festival time, through to the end of December, and I usually start about 11 months out from October. Why those times? Because they are very high demand for rentals, which means I can get any excess points rented out quickly and easily, and at a good price for me. If I rent points at other times of the year, it is usually because I have cancelled one of my own reservations or something similar, and I suddenly had points available.

I own at Poly, BLT and Animal Kingdom and my favorite is Animal Kingdom, so I sometimes have BLT and Poly points that I rent out. Since this is a high demand time and I own at popular resorts, I generally have no trouble at all getting $18 a point for these points. So that is what I ask for, and receive. It is very true that there are other people renting out, sometimes, for a dollar or two or three less. Sometimes people contact me and then go with someone cheaper. That is no problem with me. I want people to be happy, and I am confident that i will be able to rent out my points, so I don't worry about it.

So, why would someone go with me, instead of an Online Broker?

* I am willing to let the Renter call me by phone, or send a Text or Email, pretty much ANY TIME. And I do this, not only at the beginning, but any time afterwards. And I am willing to talk to them, answer their questions, hold their hand, and help them in any way I can, so that they can have a good vacation. In other words, I am very willing to provide a 'Personal touch.'

* I am willing to get up and be ready at 6 AM my time (8 AM Eastern) and hit it at the moment the 11 month window opens.

* I am willing to start up to several weeks in advance and walk the reservation to help ensure that people get what they want. I just walked two reservations last month. Both times, I made the reservation at the opening bell of the 11 month window, in addition to walking them afterwards.

* I do not require a down payment in order to try to get what people want. I am willing to give it a shot, just based on their specified request. Of course, if I am going to take the time to walk a reservation, I do presume that they are committed, and I often send them a contract right at the beginning, so they know how much it is going to cost. But then I tell them they don't need to send any money until the reservation is exactly where they want it to be.

* I do charge 100% of the cost of the reservation within 10 days, upon confirmation of a reservation being finalized.

* I DO NOT refund the Renter's money, but I AM always willing to try to MITIGATE things and change the Reservation, if something changes for the Renter. I also make it very clear up front what the Use Year is, and when the points will expire, so they know that they MUST be used by a certain date, or be lost. I also make it clear that they are VERY UNLIKELY to be able to make changes to their reservation at a later date to get exactly what they want, and that it is much better to make any such changes earlier rather than later. I even tell them that ALL OF DVC pretty much books out 100%. so they can't expect to be able to change things. But I am at least willing to try, and if it just isn't possible, then they can try to use the points on a different reservation, right up to their expiration date.

* If worst came to worst, and they Renter had to cancel, and absolutely could not book something to replace it, I am willing to take the reservation and try to rent it out, as is, to someone else. If I am able to do that, I take 25% (typically) but up to 40% of the money for my efforts and I am willing to send the rest to the renter.

If I think of something else I provide, I will come back and modify this.

The point is, I am willing to go to extra trouble to try to help my Renters. However, I realize not everyone is like me.

FOR PEOPLE READING THIS, WHO MIGHT NOT BE VERY EXPERIENCED, HERE IS MY ADVICE:

* The Online Brokers do take almost all the risk out of your rental, or at least the risk of a scam or other serious problem.

* Remember the old adage, 'If something seems too good to be true, it probably is." I would avoid like the plague, any points being rented out where the 'price' is significantly lower than everyone else. I would even avoid renting from people in the lower tier, if possible. If someone is renting in the lower tier, they either are having problems with their points (for instance, the points are about to expire, and availability is low) or they are quite possibly trying to scam you. Remember, the first rule of Con Men is to play upon your greed. And, as they say down home, "The pigs get slaughtered." One possible exception to this rule about very low cost is if someone is renting out a confirmed reservation in the next month or so, and they are panicking because they have to 'sell it' now now now. If this is the case, make sure you verify the reservation through your My Disney Experience Account before you send any money. Also, I said above that I ask for $18, but within the last year and a half, I have rented points out as low as $12 a point, because something happened and they were about to expire. But be very careful with this.

* Be VERY VERY CAREFUL, about who you rent from, if you are doing a private rental. Most owners are trustworthy and honest and will do their best to take care of you, BUT THERE REALLY ARE SCAMMERS OUT THERE, who will just try to defraud you. They are not at all common, but they do exist. So please be aware, and cautious.

* NEVER EVER EVER rent from someone who contacts YOU, because they have seen you talking to someone else on the board, or they see you have posted a request in an existing thread. I don't think any legitimate owner would ever do this, so if someone contacts you YOU MUST BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT A POSSIBLE SCAM. Make sure that anyone you deal with is someone YOU have contacted.

* I REALLY do not advise you to rent from someone on EBAY. ONLY from people on these boards, who you can see and verify.

* DO expect that a real Owner who rents out points will have a history of posts on these boards. Go read some of their posts and make sure you know who they are, by what they say and do.

* DO get the full name, phone number, email address and home address of the Owner who is renting. If they are unwilling to give this information, I suggest you run away. They shouldn't have anything to hide. Once you have this information, do look up their address on Google maps. Do make a web search using a standard search engine, to see if you can find their listed phone number and see if they actually do live at the address they gave you. I know this seems invasive, but you are going to hand over thousands of dollars to a complete stranger, and you want to verify them as much as possible.

* Do take their name and go on the Orange County Comptroller's website and make sure they actually have DVC property listed.

* DO NOT send them money until you have a CONFIRMED RESERVATION number with information, and you have plugged it into your My Disney Experience Account at Disneyworld.Disney.Go.Com to make sure that the Reservation shows up.

* I suggest you pay with PayPal. I do believe that if you complain to PayPal and tell them the person you sent money to did NOT fulfill their obligations, then PayPal might be able to refund your money. (I am not sure of this.)

Again, if I can think of anything else, I will come back and try to put that in.
 

nickys

Premium Member
* I suggest you pay with PayPal. I do believe that if you complain to PayPal and tell them the person you sent money to did NOT fulfill their obligations, then PayPal might be able to refund your money. (I am not sure of this.)
They won’t. Paying for a timeshare via PayPal is explicitly against their rules, so the6 will not intervene if anything goes wrong.

A lot of people do use it, but just don’t expect PayPal to help if it goes wrong.
 

Weather_Lady

Well-Known Member
To add to @FCivish3's excellent advice: if renting from a third party, in addition to the vetting process they described, I'd suggest only renting from those who are willing to enter into a written contract. (This can include an e-mailed agreement, as long as both parties have explicitly and mutually agreed to all of its terms in their e-mail exchanges.) It needn't be lengthy (there are several templates available online), but it should provide full contact information for both you and the member, as well as spell out both of your obligations (member promises to make the requested reservation at such-and-such resort, for such-and-such room category for the specified dates in the renter's name and not cancel it, and to maintain their membership in good standing with DVC so as not to interfere with the renter's reservation, while the renter promises to pay the member x amount for the reservation, and promises to pay all amounts charged to the room and not to damage the room or otherwise violate Disney rules and regulations), and specify the remedies available if one of you fails to follow through (e.g., if the reservation is canceled due to a breach by the member, renter is entitled to an immediate refund, etc.).

I was fortunate enough to rent from a reputable owner on another board (who we vetted extensively) whose standard contract even included the promise of a one-time modification of the reservation to different dates if we needed it (e.g., if we had a death in the family and couldn't travel during our original booking), subject of course to any change in the points required (e.g., we'd have to pay extra if the change in dates cost the member more points). While I doubt we'll need to rely on it, it's a nice extra layer of flexibility to have in writing.
 
Last edited:

Shouldigo12

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Just so you can compare the Online Points Brokers (many of who do a very fine job - and I often go through them myself) to renting from an owner, I will use myself as an example. (Please do not contact me through this message. I AM NOT trying to rent anything out here, and have actually already rented out everything I need to. I am just teaching about renting from an owner.)

When I rent out points, I generally shoot for the Fall Food and Wine Festival time, through to the end of December, and I usually start about 11 months out from October. Why those times? Because they are very high demand for rentals, which means I can get any excess points rented out quickly and easily, and at a good price for me. If I rent points at other times of the year, it is usually because I have cancelled one of my own reservations or something similar, and I suddenly had points available.

I own at Poly, BLT and Animal Kingdom and my favorite is Animal Kingdom, so I sometimes have BLT and Poly points that I rent out. Since this is a high demand time and I own at popular resorts, I generally have no trouble at all getting $18 a point for these points. So that is what I ask for, and receive. It is very true that there are other people renting out, sometimes, for a dollar or two or three less. Sometimes people contact me and then go with someone cheaper. That is no problem with me. I want people to be happy, and I am confident that i will be able to rent out my points, so I don't worry about it.

So, why would someone go with me, instead of an Online Broker?

* I am willing to let the Renter call me by phone, or send a Text or Email, pretty much ANY TIME. And I do this, not only at the beginning, but any time afterwards. And I am willing to talk to them, answer their questions, hold their hand, and help them in any way I can, so that they can have a good vacation. In other words, I am very willing to provide a 'Personal touch.'

* I am willing to get up and be ready at 6 AM my time (8 AM Eastern) and hit it at the moment the 11 month window opens.

* I am willing to start up to several weeks in advance and walk the reservation to help ensure that people get what they want. I just walked two reservations last month. Both times, I made the reservation at the opening bell of the 11 month window, in addition to walking them afterwards.

* I do not require a down payment in order to try to get what people want. I am willing to give it a shot, just based on their specified request. Of course, if I am going to take the time to walk a reservation, I do presume that they are committed, and I often send them a contract right at the beginning, so they know how much it is going to cost. But then I tell them they don't need to send any money until the reservation is exactly where they want it to be.

* I do charge 100% of the cost of the reservation within 10 days, upon confirmation of a reservation being finalized.

* I DO NOT refund the Renter's money, but I AM always willing to try to MITIGATE things and change the Reservation, if something changes for the Renter. I also make it very clear up front what the Use Year is, and when the points will expire, so they know that they MUST be used by a certain date, or be lost. I also make it clear that they are VERY UNLIKELY to be able to make changes to their reservation at a later date to get exactly what they want, and that it is much better to make any such changes earlier rather than later. I even tell them that ALL OF DVC pretty much books out 100%. so they can't expect to be able to change things. But I am at least willing to try, and if it just isn't possible, then they can try to use the points on a different reservation, right up to their expiration date.

* If worst came to worst, and they Renter had to cancel, and absolutely could not book something to replace it, I am willing to take the reservation and try to rent it out, as is, to someone else. If I am able to do that, I take 25% (typically) but up to 40% of the money for my efforts and I am willing to send the rest to the renter.

If I think of something else I provide, I will come back and modify this.

The point is, I am willing to go to extra trouble to try to help my Renters. However, I realize not everyone is like me.

FOR PEOPLE READING THIS, WHO MIGHT NOT BE VERY EXPERIENCED, HERE IS MY ADVICE:

* The Online Brokers do take almost all the risk out of your rental, or at least the risk of a scam or other serious problem.

* Remember the old adage, 'If something seems too good to be true, it probably is." I would avoid like the plague, any points being rented out where the 'price' is significantly lower than everyone else. I would even avoid renting from people in the lower tier, if possible. If someone is renting in the lower tier, they either are having problems with their points (for instance, the points are about to expire, and availability is low) or they are quite possibly trying to scam you. Remember, the first rule of Con Men is to play upon your greed. And, as they say down home, "The pigs get slaughtered." One possible exception to this rule about very low cost is if someone is renting out a confirmed reservation in the next month or so, and they are panicking because they have to 'sell it' now now now. If this is the case, make sure you verify the reservation through your My Disney Experience Account before you send any money. Also, I said above that I ask for $18, but within the last year and a half, I have rented points out as low as $12 a point, because something happened and they were about to expire. But be very careful with this.

* Be VERY VERY CAREFUL, about who you rent from, if you are doing a private rental. Most owners are trustworthy and honest and will do their best to take care of you, BUT THERE REALLY ARE SCAMMERS OUT THERE, who will just try to defraud you. They are not at all common, but they do exist. So please be aware, and cautious.

* NEVER EVER EVER rent from someone who contacts YOU, because they have seen you talking to someone else on the board, or they see you have posted a request in an existing thread. I don't think any legitimate owner would ever do this, so if someone contacts you YOU MUST BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT A POSSIBLE SCAM. Make sure that anyone you deal with is someone YOU have contacted.

* I REALLY do not advise you to rent from someone on EBAY. ONLY from people on these boards, who you can see and verify.

* DO expect that a real Owner who rents out points will have a history of posts on these boards. Go read some of their posts and make sure you know who they are, by what they say and do.

* DO get the full name, phone number, email address and home address of the Owner who is renting. If they are unwilling to give this information, I suggest you run away. They shouldn't have anything to hide. Once you have this information, do look up their address on Google maps. Do make a web search using a standard search engine, to see if you can find their listed phone number and see if they actually do live at the address they gave you. I know this seems invasive, but you are going to hand over thousands of dollars to a complete stranger, and you want to verify them as much as possible.

* Do take their name and go on the Orange County Comptroller's website and make sure they actually have DVC property listed.

* DO NOT send them money until you have a CONFIRMED RESERVATION number with information, and you have plugged it into your My Disney Experience Account at Disneyworld.Disney.Go.Com to make sure that the Reservation shows up.

* I suggest you pay with PayPal. I do believe that if you complain to PayPal and tell them the person you sent money to did NOT fulfill their obligations, then PayPal might be able to refund your money. (I am not sure of this.)

Again, if I can think of anything else, I will come back and try to put that in.
To add to @FCivish3's excellent advice: if renting from a third party, in addition to the vetting process they described, I'd suggest only renting from those who are willing to enter into a written contract. (This can include an e-mailed agreement, as long as both parties have explicitly and mutually agreed to all of its terms in their e-mail exchanges.) It needn't be lengthy (there are several templates available online), but it should provide full contact information for both you and the member, as well as spell out both of your obligations (member promises to make the requested reservation at such-and-such resort, for such-and-such room category for the specified dates in the renter's name and not cancel it, and to maintain their membership in good standing with DVC so as not to interfere with the renter's reservation, while the renter promises to pay the member x amount for the reservation, and promises to pay all amounts charged to the room and not to damage the room or otherwise violate Disney rules and regulations), and specify the remedies available if one of you fails to follow through (e.g., if the reservation is canceled due to a breach by the member, renter is entitled to an immediate refund, etc.).

I was fortunate enough to rent from a reputable owner on another board (who we vetted extensively) whose standard contract even included the promise of a one-time modification of the reservation to different dates if we needed it (e.g., if we had a death in the family and couldn't travel during our original booking), subject of course to any change in the points required (e.g., we'd have to pay extra if the change in dates cost the member more points). While I doubt we'll need to rely on it, it's a nice extra layer of flexibility to have in writing.
Thanks for the advice you guys! This is why I love the boards so much; the people here always go above and beyond to answer questions. I'll definitely keep all of this in mind.
 
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