The Living Seas and Nemo

[mickey04]

Wait I'm really confused. Did Eisner say that quote on the first page? If so, wouldn't we have heard more about this by now?

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by TrevEG
In my honest opinion I believe adding any disney character to any epcot ride would be a bad idea. Epcot, to me, has always been a place of discovery. Keep the fantasy over at the Magic Kingdom. Im also very against the idea of doing away with the future theming of Epcot. ....Community of Tomorrow, the keyword being Tomorrow. I mean.. I suppose you could make it the Experimental Prototype Community of Today but that just doesnt have the same ring to it. :hammer: Sure... it could use a touch of paint here and there but please keep it the way it is. Project Gemini gets two big thumbs down from me. But then again, thats just my opinion.

The problem today is that there is no future in Future World. Everything is here and now. The concept worked great in the 80's when the internet wasn't a means of communication for most of the world. E.P.C.O.T. was the place where you could go and expereicne all kinds of things that you couldnt otherwise get access to easily. Today you type in a few search terms on YAHOO! and you are on your way to everything you wanted to know about the subject at Hand. Thats a tough thing for Disney to compete with in a fun, entertaining, and educational way.

Most folks just aren't wowed by technology like they were 25 years ago. If Epcot is to remain relevant , something needs to happen and that something is not just mild updates to existing structures. It is truly going to have to become a Disney theme park complete with characters, family entertainment, and thrill rides. The neatest thing about this in my opinion is that the educational qualities of Future World can remain and incorporate newer Disney Characters to make it work. Nemo, would be awesome for Living Seas, Monsters, Inc would be great for Energy. I dont know what in the world should be done with the Wonders of Life pavilion and Body Wars but you can only play a movie so many itmes before it gets too fuzzy to be beleiveable.

The two Pavilions that would be hardest to update would be Honey I Shrunk The Audience and The Wonders of Life. I dont know what in the world should be done with the Wonders of Life pavilion and Body Wars but you can only play a movie so many itmes before it gets too fuzzy to be beleiveable. In the case of HISTA, well the original move is now dated and so is the attraction.

I consider this to be the toughest tasks Disney and the Imagineers have faced yet. How to take half a park and make it relevant to the General Public again while not upsetting all the Disney Fans, who dislike change, too much.

 

[GenerationX]

Main Street USA:

Speaking of the Nemo idea, though. It has ENDLESS possibilities. It in NO WAY has to be a kiddie ride, and has the opportunity to make TLS an awesome attraction once again. It could, however, also be done in poor taste, but I can't remember the last time Imagineers did anything in poor taste.

I couldn't agree more.

niteobsrvr:

Most folks just aren't wowed by technology like they were 25 years ago. If Epcot is to remain relevant , something needs to happen and that something is not just mild updates to existing structures. It is truly going to have to become a Disney theme park complete with characters, family entertainment, and thrill rides. The neatest thing about this in my opinion is that the educational qualities of Future World can remain and incorporate newer Disney Characters to make it work. Nemo, would be awesome for Living Seas, Monsters, Inc would be great for Energy. I dont know what in the world should be done with the Wonders of Life pavilion and Body Wars but you can only play a movie so many times before it gets too fuzzy to be believable.

Great points. The last thing I'd want for Future World is for it to become a museum of outdated, set exhibits. Moreso than any other part of any other park, this one needs constant updating. Bringing characters (like Nemo) in as part of the changes makes sense to me. I wouldn't replace educational pieces with total fluff; I can't see why you couldn't make the characters part of the educational experience.

 

[WDW John]

Originally posted by niteobsrvr
I dont know what in the world should be done with the Wonders of Life pavilion and Body Wars but you can only play a movie so many itmes before it gets too fuzzy to be beleiveable.

Yeah, the last few years WoL has really gotten stale. Have there been ANY recent updates?

I often wonder why they don't just give us a new movie in Body Wars. It always seems to me that Star Tours has a much longer line but the two are very similar. If they updated the interior of the ride and gave us a new movie it would probably draw more crowds. I think, right now, my favorite part of WoL is the food you can get there. Sad.

I don't really want to see Nemo at TLS, although, it wouldn't stop me from going there if he showed up. But, as mentioned earlier, no other attraction at Epcot use a Disney character as a draw to get people there (with, maybe, the exception of JIYI). It would just seem slightly out of the theme of the park to get people into TLS by having Nemo there.

 

[Jusjuice]

CAPTAIN nemo would work

Why not make Future World less outdated without using Animated Characters so much. I mean, they could redo the Living Seas by outfitting "Seabase Alpha" to look like a victorian-type futuristic look and make it Captain Nemo's Sea Base. Then, it would look a lot less 80's, but also have a much greater sense of adventure and excitement. Add a few strange looking (and not real) sea creatures into tanks in the seabase, and reopen the ride part with captain Nemo's narration, and have it travel through a ship graveyard. The big attraction could be the 20,000 leagues under the sea ride from TDS (where your not really underwater) somewhere inside the base. (an adjoining building could be built for this ride.) This would draw more people into the pavillion itself. They wouldn't even have to make it based on 20,000 leagues under the sea, but redo it with a more "timeless" appeal. There are endless possibilities to retheme or redo the pavillion without relying on cartoon characters. Epcot is the only park that doesn't rely heavily on disney movies and I think it should stay that way, because it might loose its appeal to adults and older kids if it becomes another "kiddie" park. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with attractions based on disney movies, but the Magic Kingdom or MGM are much better suited for such attractions.

 

[Dayma]

Did Eisner say that quote on the first page? If so, wouldn't we have heard more about this by now?

Yes he did say this and it is reported on other Disney sites. errr laughingpla....he he

 

[Dayma]

Seas by outfitting "Seabase Alpha" to look like a victorian-type futuristic look and make it Captain Nemo's Sea Base..

That would be cool. Imagine getting into the Nautlis subs from the old ride and it takes you to sea base alpha!

 

[JLW11Hi]

I've heard a lot of things about how it woudl be hard to change the Living Seas pavillion structure-wise because it woudl be really hard to get rid of the aquariums...I think they aren't allowed to get rid of them anyway, or don't really want to because its a kind of an environmental something or other (which is cool with me anyway, I like this part of the attraction).

Basically I would guess that really old film they show at the beginning of the attraction would be updated to Finding Nemo...and I think that would be pretty cool, actually. Hey, they did it over at The Land with "The Circle of Life", and that is a good show, I think, so I don't think it would hurt TLS if they brought characters into it as long as they do it well (I trust them on that one)

As for the "future" part of future world...I don't believe that people can't be interested in it, if only Disney presented the idea in an entertaining way. I mean, the whole "house of Tomorrow" thing at Innoventions is cool, but mabey if they made it an actual show? It would be hard, yes, to keep up with the new things comming out on the market, but mabey they coudl try it. As for people just using the internet to learn about the future, that is true, but I don't go to Disney sites on the web and say "I dont have to go to Disney World because I know everything about it from the web"...I think its the experience that really makes a difference, you know, the presentation. So if they presented future ideas in a way that would be different than somethign normal , then it could work, I suppose. I dont know, I am losing my train of thought. lol,

 

[Dayma]

I would also like to point out that Eisner himself said that Nemo will come to the living seas NOT arial and the little mermaid that the so called "Project Gemini" said would happen

Once again this is just me SSE lover hoping that its not true ...

 

[prberk]

EPCOT should still be futuristic and should still have the acronym. I never thought the everything should stay the same, though. I think the key is going back to using television, as Walt did and as the (old) Disney Channel and Wonderful World did from time to time, to showcase ideas at EPCOT. The park should NEVER stop changing, and yet its focus should stay constant: that is, a unique place that showcases the best and brightest in cultures and ideas.

Television would generate continued excitement, especially as sponsors get behind it as well. Sponsors do not want to participate in a "World's Fair" that no longer has any exposure on TV or in the public eye. Discovery-Channel-type shows should orginate from EPCOT on a daily basis, bringing in new ideas and involving the audience. That excitement alone would: (1) introduce more people to what EPCOT is; and (2) bring a freshness to daily programming. [A nice twist on "reality" programming!]

Bottom line: EPCOT needs to shine up its strengths, and go back to the front of the line as a showcase for world talent and potential; then its own credibility will shine again, carrying the rest of WDW with it. Keep it fresh and new, and on TV. But not through simple thrill rides and characters alone. A true showcase for innovation.

 

[Gregory]

Originally posted by niteobsrvr
Monsters, Inc would be great for Energy

That would be awsome... get rid of the dinosaurs... well, don't do that... just they arn't to energy...

I like Ellen in the begining... shes intertaining, but the Jepordy is a bit long and boring (though parts of it are funny)...

I'd love to see that be Monsters Inc...


Though, I'd love to see Monstropolis show up in Disney.. as a walk/through with Monsters Inc a rollar coaster/slow ride (Kind of like AKs' safaris... where its slow in the begining, but speeds up at the end... OK... bad example, but you get the point)

 

[Bayou_Tigerfan]

Somebody please tell me what's futuristic about a fish tank. There are many aquariums in the country that are superior.

This attraction is extremely boring and needs Nemo badly to enliven it a little.

I don't understand why some people think that characters can't be educational. Why is animation thought of only as something for mindless entertainment of young children?

Those of you criticizing this -- have any of you seen the movie yet? Finding Nemo is very educational in its tone and is a great introduction to life under the sea. It isn't a fairy tale like The Little Mermaid.

Epcot is part of "Walt Disney World," for crying out loud. If you are allergic to Disney characters, you're in the wrong place.

 

[Shaman]

Originally posted by Bayou_Tigerfan
Epcot is part of "Walt Disney World," for crying out loud. If you are allergic to Disney characters, you're in the wrong place.

Correct me if I'm wrong here...but there are no rides at Epcot based on a Disney movie. In fact compared to other parks...Epcot is the place where you are least likely to see a Disney character (except in those bus things they have in the mornings). :hammer:

Some say EPCOT should keep it's future theme because of the whole E.P.C.O.T name. The problem with is that EPCOT was never supposed to be a theme park...after Walt died they used Walt's "idea" and made it into a theme park. Walt Disney actually envisioned a city which he hoped to build in Central Florida, and that was going to be EPCOT. It would be a city of tomorrow, an ACTUAL city. When the park first open they kept that spirit alive in FW, but as the years have passed that has faded. FW, and I hate to say this, is infact missing the future element in its rides; however it is still a place of discovery, which is probably why the name FW will be changed. Just my opinion though. :wave:

 

[Budke]

from objr
The problem is that EPCOT was never supposed to be a theme park...after Walt died they used Walt's "idea" and made it into a theme park.

While Disney may bill Epcot as a continuation of Walt's dream, it never was. Epcot has a single unified theme: it's a permanent world's fair, with international pavilions and corporate exhibits on a grand (Disney) scale.

General Motors would never build anything on the scale of Test Track (or World of Motion) for a world's fair that would close a year after opening. Disney provided a place where corporations could have the impact on people for 10 years, not just 10 months.

But times change. Over the past few decades, world Expos have been held less and less, and the last one to break even was the '74 fair in Washington State. As more time passes between fairs, corporations and countries feel less and less inclined to take part in the next one.

I would hope that Epcot would actually be in a better position because of this. But, Disney is having a hard time finding sponsors as well. Even Compaq and Microsoft are getting their names on multi-million dollar attractions not for money, but for hardware, software and needed upgrades to infrastructure.

Attractions all over the resort are losing their sponsorships. GE, Met, American Express, FedEx, whoever it was who sponsored the Living Seas, are gone. So, Disney is moving back to building and Sponsoring its own attractions (like it does at most of its other theme parks).

So, if the Living Seas is going to be brought to you by Disney, what is wrong with Disney characters being involved? The Lion King is at the Land. Rick Moranis is shrinking things at the Imagination Pavilion. I wish they would sell the Goofy crash dummies seprately at Test Track. Goofy teaches safety at the Health Pavilion and Bill Nye is the co-star of Ellen's Energy Crisis.

And does anyone else remember when Bill Nye was also "Speed Walker!" (probably not if you aren't from Washington State).

 

[Bayou_Tigerfan]

Originally posted by objr
Correct me if I'm wrong here...but there are no rides at Epcot based on a Disney movie. In fact compared to other parks...Epcot is the place where you are least likely to see a Disney character (except in those bus things they have in the mornings). :hammer:

Actually, you can see characters in the World Showcase in "their" respective countries (like Belle and the Beast in France, Aladdin in Morocco, etc), plus there's the Princess breakfast. But in reality, Disney characters are omnipresent in that every merchandise cart and shop is selling Goofy ears and Mickey hats. Epcot has long been "Disneyfied" and my point was simply to wonder why anyone would have a problem with this.

 

[Shaman]

Originally posted by Bayou_Tigerfan
Actually, you can see characters in the World Showcase in "their" respective countries (like Belle and the Beast in France, Aladdin in Morocco, etc), plus there's the Princess breakfast. But in reality, Disney characters are omnipresent in that every merchandise cart and shop is selling Goofy ears and Mickey hats.

True...but they don't have their own attractions. I personally have a problem with Epcot having attractions with Disney characters because Imagineers have endless possibilities of rides and ideas that they can use that doesn't include Disney animated movie characters. In my humble opinion, Disney has come up with better rides when they don't include Disney characters in the rides. AE at Magic Kingdom is a perfect example, so is ToT. Epcot use to have great attractions which appealed to all and they did not include Disney characters. :lookaroun

 

[Main Street USA]

Originally posted by Bayou_Tigerfan
There are many aquariums in the country that are superior.

But none larger in the world.

 

[dizbizfan]

What about the "Circle of Life" theatre at Living with the Land? Disney characters have been in Epcot for a while now.

 

[niteobsrvr]

The on-line computer experience makes the need to focus on human emotion even more important in the world of themed entertainment. Consider this. Sophisticated home pages are themed. Some even have stories. And a lot of stuff that was once available only by going outside the home is now available inside the home thanks to the internet.

Fun, games, music, information. It is all there, but in a mundane, not terribly emotional format. The "themed" entertainment business must focus on providing that emotion, that sense of audience or group experience. We must focus on experiences that are not, nor will be, available inside the home. For that will always be one of our ultimate distinguishing characteristics.

- Dr. Jack Rouse, 1997 IAAPA Convention Speech
Jack Rouse and Associates
www.jackrouse.com
http://www.jackrouse.com/speeches_set.htm

I just ran across this speech by Jack Rouse and found it quite interesting especially the part I posted above relating to some things I stated earlier in this thread. I think he quite succinctly described the problem with Future World. It isn't really that it needs re-themed, its that it lacks any kind of connection with the park guests except for maybe a nostalgic one for some of us.

In keeping with the Living Seas attraction, you can go many, many places in the world today and see large aquariums filled with fish. And in most cases, all of these aquariums are themed in one manner or another to varying degrees of elaborateness. Themeing is all around us today in places we don't even realize. SO the question now is how do you get people to connect with the attraction.

A new coat of paint will make a ride more aesthetically pleasing. A new ride system will make it more comfortable. New effects will make it more visually exciting. A new storyline will make a ride interesting. But each of these changes will only have an impact for one or two more trips then the attraction becomes a redecorated version that will once again lose your interest. So the key has to be something else, something more intangible. As Dr. Rouse states, the Key is Emotion.

Themeing isn't enough anymore. You have to tug at the emotions like joy, love, sadness, etc. Without that level of connection most people just walk away thinking "oh, ok", but with it they walk away thinking "WOW". Its the wow factor that has to be brought back to the Living Seas as well as some other attractions at WDW.

But what makes a ride more personal and emotional for a guest? Thats the question the Imagineers need to answer before they embark on another ill-fated revamp of a ride or pavilion. Once they answer this question, they can set about using all of the previous elements to invent an experience that truly pulls a person in and makes them feel a part of the experience. Something that makes them feel as if they are a part of something and not jsut watching from a theatre seat or peering at it through a glass wall.

For those of you who aren't familiar with Jack's work, check out the website for his company. He has been developing Themed Entertainment for better than 30 years beginning his career with Taft Broadcasting's Theme Park division around the same time WDW's Magic Kingdom was finishing construction and opening its Doors. He is currently one of the most respected and Legendary producers of Themed Entertainment in World. I had the opportunity of working as a sub-contractor for his company a few years ago and there wasn't a day that went by where I wasn't amazed at some aspect of what they were producing.

 

[Yen_Sid1]

The best thing that could happen to Epcot is more Corporate Sponsorship. Then Disney can split the costs and have better pavilions and attractions.

Have you noticed how much The Living Seas has gone downhill since UT pulled out? Remember TLS has real animals not animation. So I didn't think anything will interfere with the dolphins, manatees, and othe sea life. Maybe changing the movie or more post show exhibits with interactive games with Finding Nemo if anything.