The guests that Disney does not want

[Tim_4]

There's a common misconception out there that comes up all the time when posters analyze WDW and their efforts to attract guests. People often highlight the fact that Disney seems to struggle with the 15 to 25-year-old crowd because Disney isn't "cool" enough. They compare WDW to Universal Studios, often invoking the closing of Pleasure Island and the lack of "major" roller coasters as things Disney has done wrong in targeting this age group.

What people don't realize is that Disney doesn't want these guests. This may seem counter-intuitive but hear me out.

Wild roller coasters and nightclubs invite a certain demographic of guests (young and "cool"). Young and "cool" people tend to irritate Joe and Sally Suburbs and interfere with their vacation by creating paranoia about shielding Little Timmy and Sister Susie from the various horrors of sex, drugs, and rock and roll common in today's teens and young adults. Now, Joe and Sally Suburbs tend to stay at the Polynesian Resort and purchase the Dining Plan, matching t-shirts, Mickey ears, plus a beer and a glass of wine every night at dinner. Little Timmy and Sister Susie will be made fun of when they get to high school for being "Disney geeks" but will end up purchasing DVC points at Aulani and preordering every Disney Diamond Edition Blu-Ray released in the next forty years.

If you were Disney, which guest would you want to focus on? The upper-middle class profit machines who breed future generations of profit machines, or the partying thrill-seeker who drives families away and is probably too cool for pixie dust anyways?

Disney doesn't WANT to attract the people who mock the rest of us for being obsessed with Disney. The short-term boost in attendance clicks resulting from young-adult oriented entertainment would be more than offset by a long term decline in the overall family-centered environment of Walt Disney World.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I feel like WDW has been increasingly marketed primarily toward families with children.

However, there was a time when EPCOT wasn't awkwardly kiddiefied, they were opening more adult thrill and horror attractions, had nightclubs, etc.

 

[shmmrname]

I disagree. I think Disney wants money from every demographic, but it's just a balancing act as to which direction to push. I think Disney constantly adds and subtracts attractions that fit into all the demographics. While you've made an argument using specific examples, I'd like to point out that Expedition Everest and Mission: Space are two huge additions that don't solely cater to the non "cool" demographic. Plus, there's additions like la Cava, as well as an event lasting 24 hours.
Disney doesn't care who mocks who, they care about making money for their investors and their employees. I don't say this as a negative, a healthy, competitive Disney only helps insure they exist in the future. I think Disney, like all good companies, are constantly struggling with when and where to push to expand their market-share without losing their current projected supporters.

 

[Tim_4]

I disagree. I think Disney wants money from every demographic, but it's just a balancing act as to which direction to push. I think Disney constantly adds and subtracts attractions that fit into all the demographics. While you've made an argument using specific examples, I'd like to point out that Expedition Everest and Mission: Space are two huge additions that don't solely cater to the non "cool" demographic. Plus, there's additions like la Cava, as well as an event lasting 24 hours.
Disney doesn't care who mocks who, they care about making money for their investors and their employees. I don't say this as a negative, a healthy, competitive Disney only helps insure they exist in the future. I think Disney, like all good companies, are constantly struggling with when and where to push to expand their market-share without losing their current projected supporters.

I generally agree with what you're saying but my main point is that Disney has found that pushing too hard in the younger demographic area actually leads to a greater-than-proportional decline in "family" guest satisfaction. Yes, they built Expedition Everest, but Expedition Everest looks NOTHING like this:

 

[El Grupo]

I generally agree with what you're saying but my main point is that Disney has found that pushing too hard in the younger demographic area actually leads to a greater-than-proportional decline in "family" guest satisfaction.

Just curious, is this your opinion or are you familiar with research conducted by Disney that supports a decline in response to pushing to hard for the younger demo?

 

[shmmrname]

I generally agree with what you're saying but my main point is that Disney has found that pushing too hard in the younger demographic area actually leads to a greater-than-proportional decline in "family" guest satisfaction. Yes, they built Expedition Everest, but Expedition Everest looks NOTHING like this:

And, I only mean that you're argument assumes all pushes must be all-or-nothing. I think they can be subtle, and still be pushes for a new demographic. I for one am glad that Disney hasn't done that. Any push, in any direction, that is so wildly black-or-white would instantly leave a winner and a loser.

With the approach they are taking now, there's room for argument always as to which 'side' they are favoring. That means there must have been some thought, compromise and concessions. It's in those compromises that they can proactively reach out to multiple demographics at once.

I don't argue that they don't favor the 'family'. I think we can all agree they do. But, I think they can do that while still seeking to always improve their reach into the 'cool' crowd as well.

 

[Tim_4]

Just curious, is this your opinion or are you familiar with research conducted by Disney that supports a decline in response to pushing to hard for the younger demo?

I haven't SEEN the statistics but I do know that this line of thinking definitely exists internally. It's not just an absent theory.

Don't get me wrong, either. I'm not saying that "Disney hates teenagers" or anything like that. It's certainly not black and white. But you hear things around here like "Disney needs nightclubs" or "Disney needs a Marvel/Villains park with mind-blowing hypercoasters" because everyone thinks that Disney wants desperately to bring in these younger crowds and just doesn't know how. I'm merely saying, of course they know how, and the decision not to do some of these things is not always because "TDO is cheap" (which seems to be the scapegoat for every decision). Instead, some of these major elements are absent on purpose because they aren't in line with Disney's strategic and family oriented plan. The reason I started this thread was in response to a PI thread elsewhere that I didn't want to derail, so PI and the hypothetical return of nightclubs at WDI is what I had in mind mostly.

 

[DisneyJoe]

they aren't in line with Disney's strategic and family oriented plan.

Bingo.

From a Disney Institute course I took, Disney has a declared company purpose, which is

"We create happiness by providing the finest in entertainment for people of all ages, everywhere"

 

[El Grupo]

I haven't SEEN the statistics but I do know that this line of thinking definitely exists internally. It's not just an absent theory.

Don't get me wrong, either. I'm not saying that "Disney hates teenagers" or anything like that. It's certainly not black and white. But you hear things around here like "Disney needs nightclubs" or "Disney needs a Marvel/Villains park with mind-blowing hypercoasters" because everyone thinks that Disney wants desperately to bring in these younger crowds and just doesn't know how. I'm merely saying, of course they know how, and the decision not to do some of these things is not always because "TDO is cheap" (which seems to be the scapegoat for every decision). Instead, some of these major elements are absent on purpose because they aren't in line with Disney's strategic and family oriented plan. The reason I started this thread was in response to a PI thread elsewhere that I didn't want to derail, so PI and the hypothetical return of nightclubs at WDI is what I had in mind mostly.

I'd agree that the line of thinking exists among some internally. But not all (or necessarily the vast majority of decision makers) at TDO or Burbank.

 

[Tim_4]

I'd agree that the line of thinking exists among some internally. But not all (or necessarily the vast majority of decision makers) at TDO or Burbank.

TDO doesn't make massive strategic or policy decisions like that. TDO is operations, finance/accounting, maintenance, and smaller capital projects. Major decisions are made out of California and the top executives definitely have this mentality.

 

[MickeyPeace]

WDW is somewhere in between (figuratively and literally) Universal and Legoland. It just seems lately like TDO focusing more on making competition with Todderland than with Potterversal.

 

[crosswagon]

I generally agree with what you're saying but my main point is that Disney has found that pushing too hard in the younger demographic area actually leads to a greater-than-proportional decline in "family" guest satisfaction. Yes, they built Expedition Everest, but Expedition Everest looks NOTHING like this:

This ride would definitely pull in the younger generation thrill seekers. But the rides at Disney tell a story that you can immerse yourself in as you wait your turn. I am totally a wimp and can ride most of the rides at Disney but only because I can't see exactly how high I am dangling above the ground on most of the rides. I can tell you now I would never survive the before jitters I would get waiting my turn on this ride.

 

[Tim_4]

This ride would definitely pull in the younger generation thrill seekers. But the rides at Disney tell a story that you can immerse yourself in as you wait your turn. I am totally a wimp and can ride most of the rides at Disney but only because I can't see exactly how high I am dangling above the ground on most of the rides. I can tell you now I would never survive the before jitters I would get waiting my turn on this ride.

That's my point.

 

[DCLcruiser]

Is that Cedar Point? I love that park and roller coasters in general. BG-Williamsburg is a another great coaster park.

That being said, Rock 'N' Roller Coaster is my favorite because it has all of the elements of a great scream-machine while surrounding the experience in Disney magic. From the entry show, to the back alley loading dock and the signage/music during the ride. You really feel like you are on the highway going to the show.

 

[shmmrname]

Is that Cedar Point? I love that park and roller coasters in general. BG-Williamsburg is a another great coaster park.

That being said, Rock 'N' Roller Coaster is my favorite because it has all of the elements of a great scream-machine while surrounding the experience in Disney magic. From the entry show, to the back alley loading dock and the signage/music during the ride. You really feel like you are on the highway going to the show.

I absolutely hate the pre-show, and I don't think it's entirely due to just how many times Aerosmith as jumped the shark. To me, I understand what they are trying to do as a set-up, I just think it's boring and ineffective.

 

[olinecoach61]

The Disney company is about making money. The only guests that they don't want are bed bugs.

 

[DCLcruiser]

I absolutely hate the pre-show, and I don't think it's entirely due to just how many times Aerosmith as jumped the shark. To me, I understand what they are trying to do as a set-up, I just think it's boring and ineffective.

I remember standing outside of the RNR gates that were blocked by bushes in the pouring rain bc we heard of soft-openings back before it was open. When they let us on those few nights (I rode it 6 times) they had a guy in the studio pretending to hear the guys in the video ask for him to grab his guitar and the audience would all in unison say "make it a STRETCH!" as we had already been there the night before. So I guess it is nostalgic.

I think the problem is that the show never got updated. They need to change up the video every few years I think.

 

[rufio]

This post made me LOL for a couple of reasons. Probably not the intended response, but what can you do?

Wild roller coasters and nightclubs invite a certain demographic of guests (young and "cool"). Young and "cool" people tend to irritate Joe and Sally Suburbs and interfere with their vacation by creating paranoia about shielding Little Timmy and Sister Susie from the various horrors of sex, drugs, and rock and roll common in today's teens and young adults.

Anyone read The Dark Side of Disney? HORRIBLE read, but this made me think about it. It is, apparently, supposed to tell you all of the best places to party, do the nasty in obscure places in and around the parks and resorts, as well as do drugs in and around the parks, all without getting caught. Like I said, so terrible, it's laughable. Not to mention, I can't figure out what's going on with the girl on the cover (google it).

Now, Joe and Sally Suburbs tend to stay at the Polynesian Resort and purchase the Dining Plan, matching t-shirts, Mickey ears, plus a beer and a glass of wine every night at dinner. Little Timmy and Sister Susie will be made fun of when they get to high school for being "Disney geeks" but will end up purchasing DVC points at Aulani and preordering every Disney Diamond Edition Blu-Ray released in the next forty years.

I think you just described me...

Except my parents didn't take me as a child *violin*

Okay, back on topic

 

[menamechris]

I think Disney is very effective in controlling the type of guest they want not necessarily with attractions, but with prices. Universal's annual pass is at a price that any high schooler can pay for. Disney's? Not so much. And if a teenager, adult, whoever - IS paying the prices - they honestly want to be there. Disney has absolutely no problem outlining this philosophy in Traditions....

 

[Tim_4]

The Disney company is about making money.

Correct.

The only guests that they don't want are bed bugs.

...and the guests that drive other guests to Branson.

Is that Cedar Point?

It's "Bizarro" at Six Flags New England. Formerly Superman: Ride of Steel.