The Great Movie Thread

[spacemt354]

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Welcome to The Great Movie Thread! A new idea that I wanted to share.

While imagineering can be based on rides and attractions, a key element is also about story-telling, with many actual imagineers claiming that they think of themselves as story-tellers first.

I'm also a movie fan as well, particularly sci-fi/comic-books, and with this thread, I'd like to try and take some of those movies that I don't necessary "dislike"... but ones where I feel like there was untapped potential that wasn't achieved in the finished product. Some films on the list I actually like, others I don't, but they all share a common denominator for me where the story-telling/structure/pacing/etc could be tweaked to make them "great"

While all movies are subjective, this will be my attempt to re-imagine some films that I would like to see improved, sometimes adjusting elements of the original story, or other times completely changing it up.

On the short list so far, I hope to cover Disney and other films, and here are some examples:

- Star Wars: The Phantom Menace
- Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
- Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith
- Spider-Man 3
- Green Lantern
- The Dark Knight Rises
- Avengers: Age of Ultron
- Fantastic Four
- Suicide Squad

Also, if you have a movie, tv show, or any form of story-telling that you'd like to improve yourself, please feel free to add in below! It's open to everyone.

With that said...I will begin by tackling the film that actually inspired this idea in the first place; Suicide Squad.

 

[spacemt354]

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With this, I will try my best not to spoil the film for people who haven't seen it. (For other films like the Prequels that have been out for 10+ years I'll be more open, but for now I will try and be vague with plot details and go based on what has been known through casting, reviews, and my thoughts.

This movie has the potential to be fantastic...I would argue that this trailer tells a better story and is better than the actual film.


It tells you what the point is, gives each character an overview (not that the movie doesn't, but this does it better), and illustrates the genuine craziness of the film. It's such a good trailer that now whenever I hear Bohemian Rhapsody, I think Suicide Squad.

The movie itself though, in my opinion, suffers from two major areas - character development and character usage. For an introductory film, it has way too many characters to properly introduce.

"Oh but space, Civil War had even more characters, how can you say that?"

Well, I can say that because Civil War had a dozen movies to set up all of those characters. In Civil War, you introduce 3 significant characters (Black Panther, Spider-Man, and Baron Zemo) with Martin Freeman and Marisa Tomei in very small intro roles. Everyone else in the film has been introduced at least once, with a backstory that the audience knows, before the film begins.

In Suicide Squad, you're introducing...

Deadshot, Harley Quinn, Joker, Amanda Waller, Captain Boomerang, El Diablo, Killer Croc, Rick Flag, Slipknot, Katana, Enchantress, etc.

That's 11+ characters to introduce, with backstory, and a purpose to the plot

The point is, unless you have 4 hours to tell the film, some characters are going to get the short end of the stick...so why even have those characters in the film to begin with?

If you're trying to counter Guardians of the Galaxy, follow a formula that works, but with the twist of all-villains. Don't try and one-up them by cramming 11 characters into the same movie.

And have mercy...you have arguably the #1 comic-book villain of all-time in The Joker. Marvel, Fox...nobody can top The Joker. Use him to your advantage, don't shoe-horn--.....nevermind, I'll save it for later

-------------------------------------------

Fixing the Premise:

1 - A Smaller Cast

- The cast of 11 villains will be cut down to 7 prominent villain characters in the film.

Harley Quinn, Joker, Deadshot, Amanda Waller, Captain Boomerang, Killer Croc, Rick Flag

similarly...
--
Black Widow, Loki, Iron Man, Nick Fury, Hawkeye, Thor, Captain America

and also similarly...
--
Gamora, Ronan, Rocket Racoon, Nova, Yondu, Groot, Star-Lord

Hey...if it ain't broke, why fix it?

This team dynamic has been set up, and worked to success, in several other comic-book films. In making a team-based film, the point in my view is not to over-stuff it with nonsense and unnecessary stuff. The film is large enough already with 7 prominent roles. No use muddling it with characters who are not there for any good reason.

So with that said - although I like El Diablo in the film, he's going away because I feel like Deadshot serves the "concerned" parent/villain role, is played by Will Smith (a more prominent actor), and has more to do with the new plot as a whole.

Enchantress is gone...no more weird dance moves from you

Slipknot and Katana served little to no purpose for me, so there is no use in introducing useless characters, taking up the film's run-time.

2 - A New Objective: The Joker

I will not say who the main villain is, but I will say it isn't the Joker...and that was a huge letdown (as the trailers made it seem like he had a larger role)

I very much enjoy the premise of bad vs evil. And The Joker fits that role perfectly...in a film searching for commonality with the audience, what a perfect way to bring people into the DCEU by having Joker be the main villain that the team is going after.

This also creates a much more interesting dynamic.

- Harley Quinn is in "love" with the Joker, will she betray the Squad, or fight against Joker? Both?
- Will Batman intervene?
- What is the Joker's grand scheme?
- The budding friendship of Deadshot and Harley, intertwined with the Joker's presence. Will she break her insanity or continue down that path?
- Why does Amanda Waller want the Joker after all these years, perhaps she has ulterior motives?
- Any ties to the extended DCEU...perhaps we see what happened to Robin?

Also...
- In this new plot...Amanda Waller hand-picks the team of prisoners from Arkham Asylum because they have past history with the Joker.
-- Killer Croc was imprisoned due to The Joker's betrayal.
-- Captain Boomerang was on the receiving end of a bad drug deal with the mobster Joker that ended with the Flash capturing him.
-- The Joker is responsible for Rick Flag's wife's death...how will that impact his aggressiveness in combat/plans of attack? Will his emotions get the best of him?
-- Deadshot was captured by Batman (Joker's arch enemy)
- Harley Quinn was the clown queen of Gotham along with The Joker.

All of this, I think, creates a dynamic that sets up a character connectivity between the main leads, rather a bunch of people with half-told backstories being thrown together for a 2+ hour film.

3 - No Faceless Army Battle 3rd Act

A common trend of team-up movies (Avengers, GotG, Age of Ultron, and Suicide Squad) is that the 3rd act of the film trends towards the heroes (or in this case villains) just smashing a bunch of faceless, irrelevant beings, just to show off their abilities as a team.

In this new plot, the final battle will be more personal, and less bombastic.

4 - A Different Pace

Watching the movie felt like a hodge-podge of different films thrown together. One minute it's a music video, the next could be a joke, the next minute serious, etc, and while I get that frenetic pace works well for a trailer...it doesn't work well for a 2+ hour film.

So there will be a tonal shift and a more consistent tone throughout. A crazy, dark humor film. While the crazy and colorful vibe of the film will still be apparent, and the soundtrack will be in the film, they will be used in a different way. One that doesn't distract the audience but helps further along the scenes and overall plot.

Next time...I'll get into the aspects I really want to keep in the film, and I think worked well (The Joker being one of them...while not Heath Ledger, this was definitely the most intriguing Joker)

After that I'll get into the plot and synopsis in 20 minute chunks, adding up to a 2 hour and 20 minute film.

 

[spacemt354]

(Part 2)

Things to Keep...

1 - The Joker's Personality

I was really hesitant with all the tattoos and look when they showed his first picture back in 2015, but after seeing the entirety of the film, it makes a lot of sense why he is like that. The performance itself was great, but very under-used in the actual plot -- so for this rendition, we will keep his style, but give him a larger role to play.

2 - The Music

I usually prefer scores over pop music, but while this movie had both, I think the input of music was a positive. The songs went along with the scenes (for the most part) but I think it was saturated. Instead of having so many songs...have a few that worked with the style of the film, and then use them at key points in the film...whether it be the opening title credits, or an action scene, or a chase scene, or the credits.

3 - Mid-Credits Scene

The set-up will remain the same, just the dialogue slightly adjusted for the new version.

4 - Justice League Cameos

Batman was in the trailer, and there is another cameo from a Justice League member (for a few seconds) -- but I thought that these worked well to further the plot for the most part, and give some context to the extended universe.

5 - Comic-Book Look

What I mean by this is...they characters for the most part look exactly like the comics...with slight changes. I'd want to up that even further and make it even more comic-booky, taking even more inspiration from the source material.

Coming up will the re-worked beginning/first 20 or so minutes of the film.

 

[spacemt354]

Suicide Squad - Re-Imagined

Cold Opening (5 minutes)
Opening Credits (3 minutes)

Fading in, a wide shot of Arkham Asylum and panning up to reveal its facade, as it continues to pan up, you can hear the Joker talking to Dr. Harleen Quinzel.

Cut to a psychological evaluation...this scene was in the film, but it was very brief...instead, the entire cold opening in this film will be a set up of the film's core, essential characters...elaborating on their origins and their motivations in the rest of the film. These two characters will drive the remainder of the plot, so it's essential to establish them right in the beginning.

* Picture the opening to The Social Network, which establishes Mark Zuckerberg and his motivations, but instead now with the Joker and Harley.


From the psych interview, you get a sense of the new look Joker, and how he manipulates Harley, with his stories and words. It will take a lot of inspiration from the Batman Animated Series (the first appearance of the Harley Quinn character, actually, which provides a good basis for the film and will please the fans as well


The interview will end on a foreboding note, with Harley seemingly falling for the Joker and the Joker ominously smiling (similar to the film version) The ending of the scene will use the dialogue from this scene (spoiler) from the film, over the chemical bath...but now will be said at the table


She will pledge to him in the interview instead, he'll eerily smile...and then it will fade to the opening credits of the film. Which will be a montage of her falling into the chemical bath, her costume, the original animated series costume, and running around Gotham city with the clown prince of crime...before an encounter with Batman, and Joker pushes Harley out of his car to be captured.

Costume

It's less, erm, revealing? But also still true to the character.


The opening credits will end with a shot back at the psych evaluation table, with the Joker sitting alone in his straight jacket, smiling in a side shot, then fading to Harley Quinn in the exact same seat in the same straight jacket...and the music stops, beginning the next scene.

 

[spacemt354]

Suicide Squad - Re-Imagined

Setting: Arkham Asylum (8 minutes)

Picking up where the intro credits left off we see Harley Quinn in a straight jacket sitting at the psych evaluation table. Though rather than seeing her psychologist come in and she mess with him, a stern faced Amanda Waller walks in the the room, with Rick Flag standing guard by the door, much to Harley's chagrin

After banter, Waller gets to the point and informs Harley of an assignment, with Rick Flag stepping in to be introduced as the team lead. She tells her that the mission will take time off of her prison sentence, but she must capture/kill The Joker. Harley lights up at the mention of the name (Mr. J) and agrees to the mission, but not before Rick Flag mentions the damage The Joker has caused him by killing his wife. Amanda informs Harley that she and other select prisoners from Arkham Asylum will be tasked on this mission to Gotham City...and will be wearing the security bombs in their necks (like in the film) in case they try to escape.

Amanda Waller and Rick Flag's personas are put on display with the interaction with Harley...and the camera pans out the door of Arkham Asylum, and introduces the rest of the team through panning one camera shots into the prison cells...in this one camera movement through the prison cells, there are a few easter eggs to Batman's rogues gallery of villains. A sharp eye can see The Riddler's name on one of the jail cells as it pans through...

The scene then cuts to Amanda Waller interviewing three prisoners seated next to each other across from her...Deadshot, Killer Croc, and Captain Boomerang. She articulates how they got caught and their list of felonies, and how most were connected with the Joker, with Deadshot then being singled out in the end for refusing to join...Amanda Waller then becomes manipulative and says he serves no purpose..he let down his daughter. This causes him to get angry and have some snide remarks, but then when Amanda Waller escorts the other prisoners out of the room (not before a joke from Boomerang), she tells Deadshot that he will be granted immunity and be released from prison, while the other members will just get reduced sentences. He then agrees...to go be with his daughter.

Setting: Restaurant (4 minutes)

Amanda Waller talks with two US generals about the implications of Task Force X, or as she puts it, the Suicide Squad. There's plausible deniability in having villains take the fall for the actions. Amanda Waller asserts that the reason she is assembling this team is to protect us from metahumans in Superman's absence. The general then asks why are they going after the clown prince of Gotham. Waller replies that this is a test for them, even though she has an ulterior motive behind it (to catch Batman in the cross-fire...both don't like each other)

With all that set up, the 7 main characters are given introductions in the first 20 minutes...some together, others not, and the main plot of the story is revealed...the Suicide Squad is put together by Amanda Waller to capture/kill the Joker in Gothan City - a self-contained film with different motives and angles intertwined together, with all characters having a reason to be there.

The next part of the story will see the team meet each other, the interactions between them, and an escape attempt.

 

[IAmNotAHufflepuff]

I have a suggestion... . I present to you.. The Ultimate Challenge.

Good luck.



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[spacemt354]

I have a suggestion... . I present to you.. The Ultimate Challenge.

Good luck.



​

Challenge accepted (after Suicide Squad)

 

[IAmNotAHufflepuff]

Challenge accepted (after Suicide Squad)

 

[spacemt354]

Gonna put this party on iceeee

 

[kmbmw777]

I would like to see how you would improve the Tommorowland movie if you have time.

 

[spacemt354]

I would like to see how you would improve the Tommorowland movie if you have time.

Hmm - that'd be an interesting one for sure! Thanks - I'll see what I can do

 

[kmbmw777]

Hmm - that'd be an interesting one for sure! Thanks - I'll see what I can do

Sweet!

 

[spacemt354]

I have a suggestion... . I present to you.. The Ultimate Challenge.

Good luck.



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Challenge accepted (after Suicide Squad)

Though now I need to tend to the greatest challenge of all

 

[spacemt354]

 

[spacemt354]

All this Mr. Freeze research - @Voxel @MonorailRed on the Space Jam VCR - do you remember this being one of the "coming soon" features before the movie started? It's bringing back memories

 

[IAmNotAHufflepuff]

Though now I need to tend to the greatest challenge of all

You're the real MVP.

 

[DSquared]

I have a challenge!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[IAmNotAHufflepuff]

I have a challenge!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[spacemt354]

You're the real MVP.

Ok here's an overview of Batman and Robin

Basically, for those who don't know - it was a film that almost killed the entire Batman and superhero franchise. After Tim Burton's Batman Returns underperformed in 1992, Warner Bros was under pressure and though that it's Box Office was in correlation to the dark tone of the film.

Therefore, with Batman Forever in 1995 (starring Val Kilmer) they got director Joel Schumacher to bring a light tone to the film. A commercial success, Warner Bros ended up fast-tracking Batman and Robin to be released 2 years later in 1997.

Many things about this decision caused it to end up to be the mess that it turned out to be. With the director being swayed to go more towards a campy humor tone, it went wayyy, above and beyond, and just made the film a pun-filled disaster. Batman (George Clooney) had a Bat credit card, a bizarre suit, and worked with villains such as Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy, who wanted to freeze the world and repopulate it with plants...erm okay?

So fast-tracking the movie didn't pay off - in fact I think it contributed to why it turned out so badly - WB just wanted another Box Office hit, without worrying about the quality of the film. Actors have since been interviewed saying the experience was awful and Schumacher has actually apologized to fans due to the backlash.

Re-doing this film will require some ducks to align - and a revamped attitude from superhero films - though at the same time, these changes might never give us The Dark Knight Trilogy (Or maybe we just get it sooner)

Anyway here we go - a 5-step procedure before we get into a revamped plot:

1 - Push the release date
We will attribute this an early pre-production realization that super-hero films were a dying breed. Warner Bros in house, push the release date to late-1998, giving the team 3 years to complete the film.

2 - Superman Lives

The Tim Burton directed Superman Lives film, starring Nicolas Cage, is released in this scenario instead of being scrapped. In turn, the mixed reviews from the fans give Warner Bros cold feet with their Batman film, thinking comic-books films are a dying breed.

Batman and Robin is cancelled indefinitely.

3 - X-Men (2000) is released to positive reviews.

X-Men showed that comic book films can be done, if done properly. And with that release, Warner Bros reconsiders their film, however this time, with a different cast and more devoted to the comic book origins.

4 - Spider-Man (2002) shows the advance in technology

Part of the problem with superhero films in the 90s was the special effects - once Spiderman hit, it showed the world that comic book movies now have the proper special effects to present their characters in a good light.

5 - Batman and Robin are released in 2003 - starting the DC Cinematic Universe

In this scenario - Batman and Robin will kick off the DC Cinematic Universe that will begin in 2003. New cast, new director, and new direction for the studio.

 

[TheOriginalTiki]

I love the idea of this thread, Space! Very creative way to expand the horizons of the Imagineering board

If you don't mind I'd really like to take on the Super Mario Brothers challenge as that's something I've had a TON of ideas about...mostly emulating the Marvel Cinematic Universe to have a chain of Nintendo movies building up to Super Smash Brothers team up movies.

For now, let's concentrate on what would undoubtably be a good jumping off point for a potential Nintendo Cinematic Universe...Heh...get it...Jump...Because Mario...Jumps...hehe...

I'll start with the few things I actually like about the original Mario Brothers movie and would like to keep intact with a reboot. First of all, I think the main premise of the Mushroom Kingdom being an alternate dimension and the Brothers being actual plumbers should be kept in tact.

I think Mario and Luigi going through the sewers and coming upon the portal to the Mushroom Kingdom should still be the thing that gets them there. It keeps the original game's pipe travel in tact and also makes logical sense out of why two regular looking guys would end up in a fantasy world.

I also think making one of the princesses a girl who was stolen away from the Mushroom Kingdom as a baby and is now living in New York would be a good way to go. Hell, let's also keep the rival Scapelli Plumbers as an homage to the original

So here's my pitch...Let's ditch this craziness revolving around the Mushroom Kingdom being a hypothetical history of evolved dinosaurs...The Mushroom Kingdom is weird in this version for the simple reason that it's one of MANY alternate universes existing within the larger Nintendo Cinematic Universe. This would also be a very logical way to work in Hyrule from The Legend of Zelda and connect it to the larger NCU.

So let's start with the princesses. We have Peach and Daisy as the jumping off points in the story. In my version they are sisters even though that's not cannon in the game. Working from a narrative standpoint I think that'd be the best way to go about things.

The opening scene of the film sees Daisy and Peach sepperated as young girls with Daisy being sent away to Brooklyn and Peach eventually being kidnapped by Bowser as a play on his end to gain power.

Let's talk about some of the logistics of the Mushroom Kingdom. I imagine the Toads could be an interesting plot point. They're all servants to Princess Peach. Peach has lived in Bowser's castle since being kidnapped as a child.

In the Mushroom Kingdom the Toads are all attached to Peach on a spiritual level. With Bowser manipulating Peach into viewing him as a father figure throughout her childhood, he has second hand control over the legions of Toads. You could have some interesting Zootopia type social commentary involved with the Toads being literal fungus within the Mushroom Kingdom which is why they attach themselves to the ruler.

The plot of the film is set in motion when Princess Daisy gets the Mario Brothers indirectly mixed up in a plot to rescue Peach from Bowser. We'd have the brothers plus Daisy travel to the classic Princess Peach's Castle from Mario 64 only for the iconic "The Princess is in another castle!" line

The first half of the movie would be establishing Peach and Bowser's dynamic and how Bowser truly does feel a fatherly bond to Peach. I want to really get some of the pathos of the Bowser character in this film as well as some of the offbeat comedy that was showcased in the Mario and Luigi RPGs. I definitely want to make him a slightly more light hearted villain with a lot of layers of complexity to him. Eventually I want him to shine as the villain turned bad hero in Super Smash Brothers!

Throughout the first half of the movie we'll also see Daisy connect with Mario and Luigi and their initial travel to the Mushroom Kingdom where we see a few of the classic locales including the castle, Yoshi's Island, a Koopa Air Ship, and the underground level 1-2 level from the original game.

The second act will end with Daisy and Peach reuniting and Daisy convincing Peach to escape Bowser. The brothers and Princesses all return to Brooklyn, but due to the fungus nature of the Toads things within the Mushroom Kingdom start to slip into our dimension.

For example on a date in Central Park, Luigi and Daisy are attacked by the Hammer Brothers who wreck havok on the park. Toads start sprouting up everywhere and literally lead Bowser right to Peach.

The climax happens in Time Square between Mario and Bowser. Mario ends up doing his iconic tail grab on Bowser and swings him into one of Time Square's giant screens which beats the giant lizard into submission.

The film ends with Bowser locked away within the depths of the Mushroom Kingdom dungeons and Daisy and Peach becoming the rightful rulers without the influence of Bowser. Mario and Luigi travel back and forth from the Mushroom Kingdom to engage in heroics (including a cameo from the flying raccoon suit in Mario 3!) to returning to Brooklyn to maintain the family plumbing business. Truly the Mario Brothers have become the first link into a larger world...Heh...get it...Link...Because everyone's going to be looking forward to the Zelda movie after this!

POST CREDITS!

We see Mario enter the deck of a star ship as we see we are in deep space. He is being led around by a familar looking anthropomorphic dog in a naval red suit. His name...is General Pepper, the commander of Star Fox.

As Pepper guides Mario through what we realize is the Great Fox, we geek out at the sight of a couple Arwing ships tucked away in the corner...Future adventures to come!!

We aren't just here to geek out on Nintendo Easter Eggs and the fact that suddenly Star Fox and Mario are crossing paths...There is danger a foot. A deadly new enemy within the cosmic realms of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. A bug-like infestion of an alien menace that has wrecked havoc across the galaxy.

Mario and Pepper look down at one of these alien creatures that the Star Fox team has managed to capture on their travels which has been trapped in a thick dome glass case. Fans geek out even harder as we realize what it is...It's a METROID! Suddenly, three different Nintendo properties have collided in one 90 second post-credits scene!