The Great Movie Thread

[CraniumCommand89]

The Dark Knight Rises was my favorite Nolan Batman film and I think many of its successes tend to be overlooked. Since you asked for thoughts I will give them. Overall, there are some good changes, but I disagree with most of your major plot changes.

Let's get this thread fired back up with a redo of the single most polarizing film between myself and fellow podcast co-host BlueDragonFive...The Dark Knight Rises...

I'll be honest...This was one of my most anticipated films of all time. Right up there with the likes of Jurassic World. Ironically enough, they both turned out to deliver similar feelings for me and I'll get to Jurassic World another day. At least with JW the film managed to be entertaining on a basic level all the way through. The same absolutely cannot be said about this dreary, sluggish, plot-hole infested final chapter in what should have been a perfect trilogy.

Let's get to the positives first. For the most part I love Bane and how he was executed and want to keep most of that in tact with the redo of the film. Bane was absolutely the reason I was looking forward to this movie so much. For as many problems as I have with this film, the contrast between the visual of Bane and his fancy-pants speaking voice is absolutely genius and for my money among the single most inspired things Christopher Nolan has ever done as a filmmaker. There's moments with Bane in the movie that are absolutely chilling, my personal favorite being...

The one thing I would change about Bane's execution outside of obvious writing things I'll get into that absolutely diluted the entire character in the third act would be the way they did his voice in post production. I'm one of the few who GREATLY preferred the original trailer voice that was Tom Hardy's on set delivery. Yes it was more muffled, but I think that only added to Bane's intimidation. In contrast, while I still love Hardy's accent and vocal delivery, pretty much ALL of Bane's lines in the finished films are done with blatantly obvious ADR recordings. This was done to combat people who complained about not being able to understand him, but in turn made Bane's dialogue TOO crystal clear. In my version we keep Hardy's original on-set vocal performance for the most part. ADR can certainly be used here and there as is the case with every performance in the editing room, but ADR shouldn't be the single thing that's used for Bane's dialogue.

And outside of Bane...That's honestly it on the positives I have

Too crystal clear? There were many lines that I still need the subtitles for because they are muffled. The fight in the sewer with Batman I can barely understand the lines. And seeing the IMAX original voice, it was even worse. Leaving the original voice is a poor choice in my opinion.

They turned Bruce Wayne into an unlikable crybaby who quit being Batman because his would-be girlfriend got killed...Say what you will about Batfleck killing people in the new DC movies, but I think THAT move was the single biggest betrayal of the Batman character I've ever seen. They tried to do the jump in time that The Dark Knight Returns did so well, but absolutely failed in Batman's motivations. Instead they turn Bruce Wayne into a self-loathing recluse for a majority of the run-time which, while does contribute to his overall redemption arc, could have VERY easily been accomplished without the notion of him hanging up the cowl. Batman's early retirement is the single most glaring issue I have with Nolan's entire trilogy, so let's just be done with it.

This is just a ridiculous viewpoint.

Bruce Wayne's guilt is the reason he becomes Batman in the first place. Guilt, anger, remorse, are all essential to the character. He's not a "crybaby." He's been severely injured over the years, he's older, and made Batman the fall-man for Harvey while covering up a lie about the man who was with the woman he loved. He has no family other than Alfred. No friends, no love.

Close second in terms of HUGE issues I have with Nolan's trilogy...Talia Al Ghul. I'm not even going to give Nolan the credit by calling her by her scripted name for most of the movie. She's Talia. We all knew she was Talia as soon as she was cast. Talia simply shouldn't exist in this movie. Her being the main puppet master was a HUGE sin in making Bane into essentially the henchman/muscle who seemed like he had a greater purpose but was really just following orders. Talia is gone in this version. We can put the League of Shadows stuff to rest from Batman Begins. There's no need to have the awkward shoehorned in Liam Neason cameo or the vague allusions to the Lazarus Pit. One of my big problems with Rises is that it tries to be a direct sequel to Begins while ignoring or pushing aside a lot of the plot elements that made The Dark Knight so captivating. I respect wanting to bring the trilogy full circle, but it came at the cost of continuation of a lot of the themes established in TDK.

Again, I disagree. She is crucial to the story. A non-comic book fan would not know Talia means Talia Al-Ghul. Not only that but Bruce's denial of the League of Shadows is critical to his evolution into Batman. Several themes from The Dark Knight were continued. The Dent Act's reveal as a cover up set into motion Bane's takeover of Gotham. The Joker's perception on the world came true. Introduce anarchy and everything becomes chaos. Bane's anarchy of Gotham created the divide of Gotham. Anarchy that got Bane tossed out of the League of Shadows.

Let's keep Ann Hathaway as Catwoman. I don't particularly care for her character arc in the finished film, but that's a problem with the writing less so the performance. To be honest I wasn't as blown away by her as a lot of people her and felt her performance was good but not anything too memorable, but she's likable and works well with Nolan so for the purposes of this let's keep that casting intact. The main difference I'd make for her is that I'd like to see this film start with her and Batman already knowing each other. I can actually see she being the thing that gets Bruce out of his depression surrounding Rachel. Half for the potential romance and half for the thrill of chasing a criminal on his level...as a proper Batman/Catwoman dynamic should always be. I'd also have Selina working for Bane as a means to an end in a desperate situation. This would entirely replace the Talia dynamic that Bruce had in the finished film.

Joseph Gordon Levitt as "Robin" (again, REFUSE to call him by the name Nolan wants us to call him by ) is also gone. I think JGL did a good performance and honestly he's a decently written character...but he's not a Batman character and doesn't have the stronger ties to the comic lore that we'd need for this to really hit home. That's why replacing him would be rookie GCPD officer Renee Montoya played by Rosario Dawson, who Gordon has taken under his wing. Montoya would represent the value of Gordon trusting people in the GCPD after that was put into question in The Dark Knight. I also think having her be set up as a potential Bat Woman would be definite change from the comics but one that would make sense within the context of this trilogy. I'd also throw in Gordon's partner Harvey Bullock played by...Let's say Jeff Bridges.

These are fine, but I fail to see how they change the actual plot. Selena Kyle does get Bruce out of his depression, in the final scene at the cafe. He's leading a life with her.

This film would definitely have the strongest emphasis on the GCPD out of the three in the trilogy due to the plot development of Batman being a public enemy at the end of The Dark Knight. Rolland Dagget would still be in the film but serve as the corrupt personal antagonist to Gordon who is leading the manhunt for Batman. Harvey Bullock would definitely be gun-hoe on catching Batman himself but we'll see throughout the film that he's a genuinely good man and a straight cop, and inspite of being against Batman is also an antitheses to Dagget.

As I said, there's no Batman retirement. The film picks up one year after the events of The Dark Knight on the year anniversary of Harvey Dent's death. Much of the plot plays out the same way including Gordon having guilt about the Two-Face cover up and Bane taking the city under siege. There is a clear manhunt for Batman but he's still going after criminals including The Riddler who was see in a one-scene role played by Michael Emmerson.

The film's first act ends with pretty much the same exact fight between Bane and Batman..what is EASILY the best executed scene in the entire finished product. Now here's a big difference. One of the things I hated about Rises was the weird prison that was a vague allusion to the Lazarus Pit and had REALLY confusing rules (so prisoners can just try to escape any time they want...okay??) To hell with that entire subplot. Let's not take Bruce Wayne out of Gotham City (which in turn creates the single biggest plot hole I've ever seen in any movie with the question of how the hell does he get back to Gotham City within a few hours after escaping the prison when it's been hammered in throughout the movie that he has ZERO resources...Let alone has time to do a meticulous gasoline Bat Symbol in the bridge )

No...Bruce is in Gotham City, with a broken back, in the middle of all the chaos that's being caused by Bane's regime. That is SOOO much more effective than having him watch vague news footage on a TV that he smashes after about 10 minutes of being in the prison anyways. Batman is in the place he loves as it's being torn to shreds, and there's not a damn thing he can do about it. At this point I want to mention that Alfred absolutely DOESN'T abandon him in this version and stays by his side as he recovers from the back break.

I like the Riddler reference but do not like your exclusion of the prison. Why do we fall? So we can rise again. The awe in the shot of the bats flying around Bruce before he jumps out of the hole, which I take to be a reference to the hole in the ground where he developed his fear of bats, is the whole basis of the film in my opinion.

Why would he be in Gotham with a broken back? Bane just drops him back off at Wayne Manor? The prison creates a sense of helplessness for Bruce where he can do nothing. Being in Gotham doesn't add that level of guilt.

Bane's siege goes on for six months as Bruce recovers and we feel that passage of time as the city slowly gets more and more torn apart. We see a big emphasis on average citizens becoming unhinged and violent out of sheer desperation. Some of the iconic stuff from the finished film like the plane hijacking cold-open, Bane making his grand introduction at the football game and the chilling shot of the bodies hanging from the bridge will be kept in tact.

The end of the second act comes as Bruce is recovering and Gordon ends up in the hospital. This was one of the HUGE disappointments in the movie to me. In the teaser trailer for Dark Knight Rises we don't get much...All we really get is a hospitalized Gordon who looks like he's on death's door...begging for Batman to come back. To me the scene I was most looking forward to was Bane absolutely destroying Gordon and beating him to a pulp. While it'd certainly be hard to watch, the emotional gravity of the situation certainly had to lead to a powerful moment, right...

Instead of being the big act two low of lows, Gordon being in the hospital is more of an afterthought of him stumbling around in the sewers and getting shot. The injury that put him in the hosptial was barely even explaiend and it CERTAINLY didn't come off like he was on death's door in the final film like the emotional gravity of the teaser trailer would have you come to expect.

Let's entirely redo the events surrounding Gordon's death. Bane knows that Bruce Wayne has recovered at this point, and he's bidding his time and training for a rematch. Bane hasn't located the Batcave (Which will be on the outskirts of Gotham and secluded...) so he wants to draw Batman out. What's the best way to do that..hit him where it hurts. It's common knowledge that Batman and Gordon have a personal working relationship. With that Bane abducts Gordon and has a huge public display in front of the press where he beats Gordon brutally within in inch of his life. This would lead to the dramatic "he must...he must..." moment where Gordon begs Batman to return in the hospital. In this version, let's actually kill Gordon off. He already had a fake death in The Dark Knight and this would be something that's emotionally devastating to both Bruce and the audience, and would certainly be a call to arms for Batman to finish Bane once and for all.

I think Gordon should have died and I like how you play in the dramatic element here. I would have him die via video broadcast to Bruce in his cell. Being the final nail in the coffin for Bruce thinking there is no hope left.

The ending of the film is a much more bare-knuckle brawl that doesn't include the ridiculous bomb being carried away plot. In fact there's no bomb. Bane takes control of Gotham through sheer man power as well as just doing things that generally cause chaos such as releasing the prisoners at Blackgate. Instead we get a drag out fight between Bane and Batman that lasts about twice as long as in the finished product. While this might be controversial, I actually think Batman should kill Bane. It'd be in a situation where he has absolutely no other choice in addition to the blind rage Bruce has in the aftermath of Gordon's murder.. and you'd clearly see how emotionally wrecked Bruce is by having to do this. I think this would be a perfect and somber way to end the trilogy after all the exploration of Batman's no-kill policy in The Dark Knight.

Throughout the film we'd get an in depth exploration into the philosophical idea that Batman creates his own villains, something that truly haunts Bruce in the wake of Joker's reign of terror in The Dark Knight. This coupled with the sheer devastation Bane unleashed leads to the ultimate decision for Batman to retire. The film ends on a cliffhanger though as we see Bullock and Montoya discovering the Bat Cave on the outskirts of Gotham and putting the pieces together about Bruce Wayne's identity. While Montoya is inspired and in awe of Bruce's heroism as Batman, Bullock is wanting to call it in and get back up down there right away. Were left with a fade out of Montoya and Bullock in the Bat Cave with the sound of approaching police sirens as we fade to black. We are left to wonder, with one final Nolan stroke of ambiguity, what becomes of Bruce Wayne after this revelation..

I'd LOVE to hear everyone's thoughts. This is a pitch that's been in my head for a long time. It's not a complete redo of a film, just a retooling of certain elements that I think would make the overall finished product infinitely tighter and more well told than the film we ultimately ended up getting.

Batman should not kill Bane. Nope. He should not give in to blind rage. I think it should play out exactly how it does in the film already. This version would ruin the entire arc of "no-killing" throughout the trilogy and end it on a poor note. If you're going to change the ending, which I think is the most perfect book-end to a trilogy, then have Batman die to save Gotham. But I would implore that the ending does not need to be changed.

 

[spacemt354]

I'm a huge Batman fan so I will be curious what you do with the new Ben Affleck film.

I don't know about you, but I thought the Affleck Bat was much more of a detective than Bale was. In the Bale storyline though, I guess it makes sense why, but going forward I definitely want to see Batman do more detective work. He's "rich" That's his superpower, so use it to his advantage.

 

[spacemt354]

The Dark Knight Rises was my favorite Nolan Batman film and I think many of its successes tend to be overlooked. Since you asked for thoughts I will give them. Overall, there are some good changes, but I disagree with most of your major plot changes.


Too crystal clear? There were many lines that I still need the subtitles for because they are muffled. The fight in the sewer with Batman I can barely understand the lines. And seeing the IMAX original voice, it was even worse. Leaving the original voice is a poor choice in my opinion.

This is just a ridiculous viewpoint.

Bruce Wayne's guilt is the reason he becomes Batman in the first place. Guilt, anger, remorse, are all essential to the character. He's not a "crybaby." He's been severely injured over the years, he's older, and made Batman the fall-man for Harvey while covering up a lie about the man who was with the woman he loved. He has no family other than Alfred. No friends, no love.

Again, I disagree. She is crucial to the story. A non-comic book fan would not know Talia means Talia Al-Ghul. Not only that but Bruce's denial of the League of Shadows is critical to his evolution into Batman. Several themes from The Dark Knight were continued. The Dent Act's reveal as a cover up set into motion Bane's takeover of Gotham. The Joker's perception on the world came true. Introduce anarchy and everything becomes chaos. Bane's anarchy of Gotham created the divide of Gotham. Anarchy that got Bane tossed out of the League of Shadows.

These are fine, but I fail to see how they change the actual plot. Selena Kyle does get Bruce out of his depression, in the final scene at the cafe. He's leading a life with her.

I like the Riddler reference but do not like your exclusion of the prison. Why do we fall? So we can rise again. The awe in the shot of the bats flying around Bruce before he jumps out of the hole, which I take to be a reference to the hole in the ground where he developed his fear of bats, is the whole basis of the film in my opinion.

Why would he be in Gotham with a broken back? Bane just drops him back off at Wayne Manor? The prison creates a sense of helplessness for Bruce where he can do nothing. Being in Gotham doesn't add that level of guilt.

I think Gordon should have died and I like how you play in the dramatic element here. I would have him die via video broadcast to Bruce in his cell. Being the final nail in the coffin for Bruce thinking there is no hope left.

Batman should not kill Bane. Nope. He should not give in to blind rage. I think it should play out exactly how it does in the film already. This version would ruin the entire arc of "no-killing" throughout the trilogy and end it on a poor note. If you're going to change the ending, which I think is the most perfect book-end to a trilogy, then have Batman die to save Gotham. But I would implore that the ending does not need to be changed.

I think I mentioned this a while back (but on the last page) that TDKR is my least favorite of the trilogy (but that is like a 9/10) Any other trilogy it's still a fantastic movie with a lot of great messages in it.

Imo the first two sowed up the loose ends better than the final one and I think that has a lot to do with Nolan not even on board at first with making a 3rd one. It took 4 years between The Dark Knight and the Dark Knight Rises, so there was definitely some qualms at first to making it.

Usually in Nolan films, the audience can find out how things happened rather than having it spoon-fed to us, but how Bruce got back to Gotham when nothing comes in or out of the city, is still a mystery to me.

However -- these two scenes that you mentioned are some of my favorites. I love the pit and what it stands for in terms of the message of the film "rise" up after you fall...

And the music...enough said....I still get goosebumps when the bats fly out as he's looking over the ledge and the music starts to swell. At that moment -- he "becomes" Batman again...


And yes the ending to the movie is beautiful.

 

[spacemt354]

I also think just watching him climb out of the pit again -- that it also symbolizes that you'll never accomplish anything in life if you don't put in the effort and take a leap of faith. The people in the pit are mostly all older, which I'm just thinking, could symbolize that if you play it safe in life and never reach for something big on a leap of faith, you'll stay where you are in the pit and never be able to rise up and reach your potential.

A leap of faith was also a message from Inception (which was 2 years before TDKR).

 

[Pi on my Cake]

I think I mentioned this a while back (but on the last page) that TDKR is my least favorite of the trilogy (but that is like a 9/10) Any other trilogy it's still a fantastic movie with a lot of great messages in it.

Imo the first two sowed up the loose ends better than the final one and I think that has a lot to do with Nolan not even on board at first with making a 3rd one. It took 4 years between The Dark Knight and the Dark Knight Rises, so there was definitely some qualms at first to making it.

Usually in Nolan films, the audience can find out how things happened rather than having it spoon-fed to us, but how Bruce got back to Gotham when nothing comes in or out of the city, is still a mystery to me.

However -- these two scenes that you mentioned are some of my favorites. I love the pit and what it stands for in terms of the message of the film "rise" up after you fall...

And the music...enough said....I still get goosebumps when the bats fly out as he's looking over the ledge and the music starts to swell. At that moment -- he "becomes" Batman again...


And yes the ending to the movie is beautiful.

Dark Knight Rises is incredible. But it also had a lot more leaps in logic and silly moments than the previous ones. The Nolan Batman films made their name by being grounded and Dark Knight Rises kinda wasn't. I still love it, but I think that is a big part of why it tends to run a lot of people the wrong way. That and plot holes

 

[Suchomimus]

Spoiler: I don't care that I'm late

 

[CraniumCommand89]

I think I mentioned this a while back (but on the last page) that TDKR is my least favorite of the trilogy (but that is like a 9/10) Any other trilogy it's still a fantastic movie with a lot of great messages in it.

Imo the first two sowed up the loose ends better than the final one and I think that has a lot to do with Nolan not even on board at first with making a 3rd one. It took 4 years between The Dark Knight and the Dark Knight Rises, so there was definitely some qualms at first to making it.

Usually in Nolan films, the audience can find out how things happened rather than having it spoon-fed to us, but how Bruce got back to Gotham when nothing comes in or out of the city, is still a mystery to me.

However -- these two scenes that you mentioned are some of my favorites. I love the pit and what it stands for in terms of the message of the film "rise" up after you fall...

And the music...enough said....I still get goosebumps when the bats fly out as he's looking over the ledge and the music starts to swell. At that moment -- he "becomes" Batman again...


And yes the ending to the movie is beautiful.

Yes this is what I view it as for the most part and what I think @TheOriginalTiki dismissed in his remake.

The prison was one of the best sequences of the trilogy and has a wonderful message about who Batman is.

How Bruce got back to Gotham could be explained by the use of autopilot on his Batwing. He repaired the software patch on it before the Bane fight, and it has a cloaking device. It could have easily found him and brought him back to Gotham undetected.

 

[spacemt354]

Yes this is what I view it as for the most part and what I think @TheOriginalTiki dismissed in his remake.

The prison was one of the best sequences of the trilogy and has a wonderful message about who Batman is.

How Bruce got back to Gotham could be explained by the use of autopilot on his Batwing. He repaired the software patch on it before the Bane fight, and it has a cloaking device. It could have easily found him and brought him back to Gotham undetected.

To be honest I never thought of the Batwing being the reason he got back to Gotham. That makes sense especially since it's designed to cloak. Though I still say that the jump from him in a faraway desert in rag clothes to him picking up an apple on the streets of Gotham in a suit was a bit jarring, especially for a Nolan film which I tend to hold to higher standards fair or not.

 

[Suchomimus]

Roses are red
Violets are blue

 

[CraniumCommand89]

To be honest I never thought of the Batwing being the reason he got back to Gotham. That makes sense especially since it's designed to cloak. Though I still say that the jump from him in a faraway desert in rag clothes to him picking up an apple on the streets of Gotham in a suit was a bit jarring, especially for a Nolan film which I tend to hold to higher standards fair or not.

There was a lot of plot in the film, I think it could have even been 20-30 minutes longer, but probably had to be cut down so that it could play in theaters.

 

[spacemt354]

There was a lot of plot in the film, I think it could have even been 20-30 minutes longer, but probably had to be cut down so that it could play in theaters.

Good point.

 

[spacemt354]

@CraniumCommand89 for you...

 

[kmbmw777]

I'd like to get back into this -- but basing it in a more realistic sense. While some may not like the direction of the DCEU, I actually saw Man of Steel on tv recently and hmm...that was better than I remembered it. And I am one of the defenders of Batman v Superman.

While there are flaws I don't understand the hate. I really don't. Suicide Squad has been my least favorite, mostly because of wasted potential, and was the reason for starting this thread in the first place.

With the recent release of the Justice League trailer (which looks really cool) -- I'm going to try and go through the rumored and confirmed upcoming films for the DCEU -- and try to create a cohesive story that blends in the positive aspects of the first 3 films in the DCEU, with more of what some fans have been asking for.

---------------------------

As of now the current line-up looks to be:

Set:
Wonder Woman (2017)
Justice League (2017)
Aquaman (2018)

Rumored/In Production:
Gotham City Sirens
The Flash
Man of Steel 2
The Batman
Shazam
Suicide Squad 2
Justice League 2
Green Lantern Corps
Justice League Dark


Here's going to be my lineup - if I took over DC/WB today:

Justice League - November 2017
Aquaman - July 2018 (moved back up)
The Batman - November 2018 (fast-track)
Justice League 2 - June 2019
The Flash/Green Lantern - November 2019
Shazam - March 2020
Teen Titans - November 2020
Justice League 3 - June 2021
The Batman Returns - November 2021

--------------------------- End

Reboot

More details coming soon!

Project DCEU
I would like to give this thread purpose! My proposition is simple - let us, as a forum, write out these movies. Here is the premise:

After the flop of Suicide Squad, Warner Bros. announced that the DVD release will feature an all new storyline, while the theatrical release will be CUT. Now a filming company has never voided a movie before so this shocked the world.

When they released the DVD cut it looked like this (by: @spacemt354 who should totally finish this!)​

​

With this, I will try my best not to spoil the film for people who haven't seen it. (For other films like the Prequels that have been out for 10+ years I'll be more open, but for now I will try and be vague with plot details and go based on what has been known through casting, reviews, and my thoughts.

This movie has the potential to be fantastic...I would argue that this trailer tells a better story and is better than the actual film.


It tells you what the point is, gives each character an overview (not that the movie doesn't, but this does it better), and illustrates the genuine craziness of the film. It's such a good trailer that now whenever I hear Bohemian Rhapsody, I think Suicide Squad.

The movie itself though, in my opinion, suffers from two major areas - character development and character usage. For an introductory film, it has way too many characters to properly introduce.

"Oh but space, Civil War had even more characters, how can you say that?"

Well, I can say that because Civil War had a dozen movies to set up all of those characters. In Civil War, you introduce 3 significant characters (Black Panther, Spider-Man, and Baron Zemo) with Martin Freeman and Marisa Tomei in very small intro roles. Everyone else in the film has been introduced at least once, with a backstory that the audience knows, before the film begins.

In Suicide Squad, you're introducing...

Deadshot, Harley Quinn, Joker, Amanda Waller, Captain Boomerang, El Diablo, Killer Croc, Rick Flag, Slipknot, Katana, Enchantress, etc.

That's 11+ characters to introduce, with backstory, and a purpose to the plot

The point is, unless you have 4 hours to tell the film, some characters are going to get the short end of the stick...so why even have those characters in the film to begin with?

If you're trying to counter Guardians of the Galaxy, follow a formula that works, but with the twist of all-villains. Don't try and one-up them by cramming 11 characters into the same movie.

And have mercy...you have arguably the #1 comic-book villain of all-time in The Joker. Marvel, Fox...nobody can top The Joker. Use him to your advantage, don't shoe-horn--.....nevermind, I'll save it for later

-------------------------------------------

Fixing the Premise:

1 - A Smaller Cast

- The cast of 11 villains will be cut down to 7 prominent villain characters in the film.

Harley Quinn, Joker, Deadshot, Amanda Waller, Captain Boomerang, Killer Croc, Rick Flag

similarly...
--
Black Widow, Loki, Iron Man, Nick Fury, Hawkeye, Thor, Captain America

and also similarly...
--
Gamora, Ronan, Rocket Racoon, Nova, Yondu, Groot, Star-Lord

Hey...if it ain't broke, why fix it?

This team dynamic has been set up, and worked to success, in several other comic-book films. In making a team-based film, the point in my view is not to over-stuff it with nonsense and unnecessary stuff. The film is large enough already with 7 prominent roles. No use muddling it with characters who are not there for any good reason.

So with that said - although I like El Diablo in the film, he's going away because I feel like Deadshot serves the "concerned" parent/villain role, is played by Will Smith (a more prominent actor), and has more to do with the new plot as a whole.

Enchantress is gone...no more weird dance moves from you

Slipknot and Katana served little to no purpose for me, so there is no use in introducing useless characters, taking up the film's run-time.

2 - A New Objective: The Joker

I will not say who the main villain is, but I will say it isn't the Joker...and that was a huge letdown (as the trailers made it seem like he had a larger role)

I very much enjoy the premise of bad vs evil. And The Joker fits that role perfectly...in a film searching for commonality with the audience, what a perfect way to bring people into the DCEU by having Joker be the main villain that the team is going after.

This also creates a much more interesting dynamic.

- Harley Quinn is in "love" with the Joker, will she betray the Squad, or fight against Joker? Both?
- Will Batman intervene?
- What is the Joker's grand scheme?
- The budding friendship of Deadshot and Harley, intertwined with the Joker's presence. Will she break her insanity or continue down that path?
- Why does Amanda Waller want the Joker after all these years, perhaps she has ulterior motives?
- Any ties to the extended DCEU...perhaps we see what happened to Robin?

Also...
- In this new plot...Amanda Waller hand-picks the team of prisoners from Arkham Asylum because they have past history with the Joker.
-- Killer Croc was imprisoned due to The Joker's betrayal.
-- Captain Boomerang was on the receiving end of a bad drug deal with the mobster Joker that ended with the Flash capturing him.
-- The Joker is responsible for Rick Flag's wife's death...how will that impact his aggressiveness in combat/plans of attack? Will his emotions get the best of him?
-- Deadshot was captured by Batman (Joker's arch enemy)
- Harley Quinn was the clown queen of Gotham along with The Joker.

All of this, I think, creates a dynamic that sets up a character connectivity between the main leads, rather a bunch of people with half-told backstories being thrown together for a 2+ hour film.

3 - No Faceless Army Battle 3rd Act

A common trend of team-up movies (Avengers, GotG, Age of Ultron, and Suicide Squad) is that the 3rd act of the film trends towards the heroes (or in this case villains) just smashing a bunch of faceless, irrelevant beings, just to show off their abilities as a team.

In this new plot, the final battle will be more personal, and less bombastic.

4 - A Different Pace

Watching the movie felt like a hodge-podge of different films thrown together. One minute it's a music video, the next could be a joke, the next minute serious, etc, and while I get that frenetic pace works well for a trailer...it doesn't work well for a 2+ hour film.

So there will be a tonal shift and a more consistent tone throughout. A crazy, dark humor film. While the crazy and colorful vibe of the film will still be apparent, and the soundtrack will be in the film, they will be used in a different way. One that doesn't distract the audience but helps further along the scenes and overall plot.

Next time...I'll get into the aspects I really want to keep in the film, and I think worked well (The Joker being one of them...while not Heath Ledger, this was definitely the most intriguing Joker)

After that I'll get into the plot and synopsis in 20 minute chunks, adding up to a 2 hour and 20 minute film.

(Part 2)

Things to Keep...

1 - The Joker's Personality

I was really hesitant with all the tattoos and look when they showed his first picture back in 2015, but after seeing the entirety of the film, it makes a lot of sense why he is like that. The performance itself was great, but very under-used in the actual plot -- so for this rendition, we will keep his style, but give him a larger role to play.

2 - The Music

I usually prefer scores over pop music, but while this movie had both, I think the input of music was a positive. The songs went along with the scenes (for the most part) but I think it was saturated. Instead of having so many songs...have a few that worked with the style of the film, and then use them at key points in the film...whether it be the opening title credits, or an action scene, or a chase scene, or the credits.

3 - Mid-Credits Scene

The set-up will remain the same, just the dialogue slightly adjusted for the new version.

4 - Justice League Cameos

Batman was in the trailer, and there is another cameo from a Justice League member (for a few seconds) -- but I thought that these worked well to further the plot for the most part, and give some context to the extended universe.

5 - Comic-Book Look

What I mean by this is...they characters for the most part look exactly like the comics...with slight changes. I'd want to up that even further and make it even more comic-booky, taking even more inspiration from the source material.

Coming up will the re-worked beginning/first 20 or so minutes of the film.

Suicide Squad - Re-Imagined

Cold Opening (5 minutes)
Opening Credits (3 minutes)

Fading in, a wide shot of Arkham Asylum and panning up to reveal its facade, as it continues to pan up, you can hear the Joker talking to Dr. Harleen Quinzel.

Cut to a psychological evaluation...this scene was in the film, but it was very brief...instead, the entire cold opening in this film will be a set up of the film's core, essential characters...elaborating on their origins and their motivations in the rest of the film. These two characters will drive the remainder of the plot, so it's essential to establish them right in the beginning.

* Picture the opening to The Social Network, which establishes Mark Zuckerberg and his motivations, but instead now with the Joker and Harley.


From the psych interview, you get a sense of the new look Joker, and how he manipulates Harley, with his stories and words. It will take a lot of inspiration from the Batman Animated Series (the first appearance of the Harley Quinn character, actually, which provides a good basis for the film and will please the fans as well


The interview will end on a foreboding note, with Harley seemingly falling for the Joker and the Joker ominously smiling (similar to the film version) The ending of the scene will use the dialogue from this scene (spoiler) from the film, over the chemical bath...but now will be said at the table


She will pledge to him in the interview instead, he'll eerily smile...and then it will fade to the opening credits of the film. Which will be a montage of her falling into the chemical bath, her costume, the original animated series costume, and running around Gotham city with the clown prince of crime...before an encounter with Batman, and Joker pushes Harley out of his car to be captured.

Costume

It's less, erm, revealing? But also still true to the character.


The opening credits will end with a shot back at the psych evaluation table, with the Joker sitting alone in his straight jacket, smiling in a side shot, then fading to Harley Quinn in the exact same seat in the same straight jacket...and the music stops, beginning the next scene.

Suicide Squad - Re-Imagined

Setting: Arkham Asylum (8 minutes)

Picking up where the intro credits left off we see Harley Quinn in a straight jacket sitting at the psych evaluation table. Though rather than seeing her psychologist come in and she mess with him, a stern faced Amanda Waller walks in the the room, with Rick Flag standing guard by the door, much to Harley's chagrin

After banter, Waller gets to the point and informs Harley of an assignment, with Rick Flag stepping in to be introduced as the team lead. She tells her that the mission will take time off of her prison sentence, but she must capture/kill The Joker. Harley lights up at the mention of the name (Mr. J) and agrees to the mission, but not before Rick Flag mentions the damage The Joker has caused him by killing his wife. Amanda informs Harley that she and other select prisoners from Arkham Asylum will be tasked on this mission to Gotham City...and will be wearing the security bombs in their necks (like in the film) in case they try to escape.

Amanda Waller and Rick Flag's personas are put on display with the interaction with Harley...and the camera pans out the door of Arkham Asylum, and introduces the rest of the team through panning one camera shots into the prison cells...in this one camera movement through the prison cells, there are a few easter eggs to Batman's rogues gallery of villains. A sharp eye can see The Riddler's name on one of the jail cells as it pans through...

The scene then cuts to Amanda Waller interviewing three prisoners seated next to each other across from her...Deadshot, Killer Croc, and Captain Boomerang. She articulates how they got caught and their list of felonies, and how most were connected with the Joker, with Deadshot then being singled out in the end for refusing to join...Amanda Waller then becomes manipulative and says he serves no purpose..he let down his daughter. This causes him to get angry and have some snide remarks, but then when Amanda Waller escorts the other prisoners out of the room (not before a joke from Boomerang), she tells Deadshot that he will be granted immunity and be released from prison, while the other members will just get reduced sentences. He then agrees...to go be with his daughter.

Setting: Restaurant (4 minutes)

Amanda Waller talks with two US generals about the implications of Task Force X, or as she puts it, the Suicide Squad. There's plausible deniability in having villains take the fall for the actions. Amanda Waller asserts that the reason she is assembling this team is to protect us from metahumans in Superman's absence. The general then asks why are they going after the clown prince of Gotham. Waller replies that this is a test for them, even though she has an ulterior motive behind it (to catch Batman in the cross-fire...both don't like each other)

With all that set up, the 7 main characters are given introductions in the first 20 minutes...some together, others not, and the main plot of the story is revealed...the Suicide Squad is put together by Amanda Waller to capture/kill the Joker in Gothan City - a self-contained film with different motives and angles intertwined together, with all characters having a reason to be there.

The next part of the story will see the team meet each other, the interactions between them, and an escape attempt.

Amazing work mate (Though it should be completed)

The studio announced that they are considering completely redoing their plans for Wonder Woman and Justice League. They enlisted a team of movie enthusiasts to help them decide future movies.

The Task At Hand:
We should start by creating a general layout for the future of Warner Bros' DCEU and the overachring plot. Then indivdual memembers can take a movie and become 'the director' of it, and propose how it should be made. What we will not be doing (unless the majority wants to) is fixing Man of Steel or Batman v Superman. We will be fixing the future! So let's do this!​

 

[spacemt354]

Project DCEU
I would like to give this thread purpose! My proposition is simple - let us, as a forum, write out these movies. Here is the premise:

After the flop of Suicide Squad, Warner Bros. announced that the DVD release will feature an all new storyline, while the theatrical release will be CUT. Now a filming company has never voided a movie before so this shocked the world.

When they released the DVD cut it looked like this (by: @spacemt354 who should totally finish this!)​

Amazing work mate (Though it should be completed)

The studio announced that they are considering completely redoing their plans for Wonder Woman and Justice League. They enlisted a team of movie enthusiasts to help them decide future movies.

The Task At Hand:
We should start by creating a general layout for the future of Warner Bros' DCEU and the overachring plot. Then indivdual memembers can take a movie and become 'the director' of it, and propose how it should be made. What we will not be doing (unless the majority wants to) is fixing Man of Steel or Batman v Superman. We will be fixing the future! So let's do this!​

I will probably come back to this in the summer -- right now I probably wouldn't be able to commit because I'd want to do it right. I've tried restarting this but my brain can only handle so many things haha.

 

[kmbmw777]

I will probably come back to this in the summer -- right now I probably wouldn't be able to commit because I'd want to do it right. I've tried restarting this but my brain can only handle so many things haha.

That's fair. I would like to maybe brainstorm it with others if any are interested @TheOriginalTiki @CraniumCommand89
Maybe take on some movies.

 

[Voxel]

@spacemt354 Battlefield Earth is the greatest movie of all time!

 

[spacemt354]

@spacemt354 Battlefield Earth is the greatest movie of all time!

 

[Voxel]

We should totally watch it and live stream our responses.

 

[Suchomimus]

Nearly thought the guy on the right was a Wookie.

 

[spacemt354]

We should totally watch it and live stream our responses.

Lol there are so many better things to do with 117 minutes of your life.