The CGI Paradigm Shift

Haymarket2008

Well-Known Member
This is the same thing as having holograms and canned orchestras. Short-sighted and unsustainable.

I can see them using it predominantly in rare cases in cinema and quite a bit in theme parks.

Either way, Cosmic Rewind is fast approaching: they better get on it.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
Yay, uncanny valley!

When you say “human” in Rogue One, are you talking about creepy Exorcist Leia? That wasn’t convincing but definitely looked like she was possessed by the Dark Side.
Someone did a better “deepfake” of her a couple months later

ETA: didn’t see it was already posted
 

Castmbr

Active Member
Recieved word recently that Disney is seeking to diversify its ability to produce movies and shorts in the event that the pandemic continues into the future, or in the event that such a crisis should ever occur again. According to sources, Disney is seeking to push forward with the same technology used to create movies such as The Lion King 2019 and The Jungle Book 2016, as well as human facial CGI seen in Rogue One, to begin work on an unnamed film that would be fully computer animated but presented as a live action film featuring human characters. The goal is to test the waters of creating computer animated films indistinguishable from live action, thus bypassing the need for actors (and actor salaries), as well as the need for proximity. According to one source, the unnamed film is a movie about young Indiana Jones, though no other person has been able to corroborate the subject matter.

Specific to Walt Disney World, the interesting information is that due to Guardians of the Galaxy 3 film shooting being significantly delayed, the company is interested in using Cosmic Rewind as a proof of concept if they are unable to get the coaster film work completed by the actors in person on time. Given that the Young Indy film (if the one source is accurate) could be 3-5 years out, this provides perfect timing for Disney to test audiences' reaction to the technology they've developed within an attraction. Decisions should be made within the next 2 months as to whether or not you'll be seeing a virtual, yet indistinguishable from real, Chris Pratt when you hop on the coaster.

Feige has likewise expressed interest in potentially moving forward with an offshoot Marvel series using the virtual live action system. Meanwhile, Lucasfilm inked a deal with Mark Hammill without much fanfare within the past 18 months which permits them to produce films featuring a CGI Luke Skywalker. I'm told that within that contract, Disney also is given the ability to use CGI faux reality Luke in future adaptations of Galaxy's Edge. Unfortunately, due to the abysmal financial situation, the latter may not come to fruition anytime soon.

Both in the parks and in theaters, it is likely going forward that Disney will use the pandemic to slowly begin moving towards computer animation as a substitute for human actors. Of course this doesn't mean that Disney will immediately stop traditional live film, just that they have the capability for the first time in history (they believe), and they're now prepared to move forward with it to some degree... if only because they never want to be in their current stalled position ever again.

The era of the movie star / celebrity is probably over which is fine by me.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Stop making “live action” movies that consist of >90% CGI. It’s just a different (worse) form of animation. Lion King was the worst offender imo. If I want to watch Lion King I’ll be picking up the 1994 version.
They're already taking the Lion King 2019 approach with an upcoming remake of "Bambi".
 

Mouse Trap

Well-Known Member
Every major studio has and continues to experiment with such thing. Terribly expensive right now though for a two hour theatrical feature. Prolonged realistic facial movements and speech continue to be a challenge as well, but loads of progress has been made.

Totally worth it for a 6 minute ride though.
 

BlindChow

Well-Known Member
I think the biggest obstacle to overcome is people knowing they're CGI creations. Once a viewer knows it's not a real human being (especially if it's someone famous), they'll instantly be analyzing every movement and detail, looking for evidence of artificiality... And even if the result somehow ends up completely flawless, I suspect some viewers will still insist they can tell it's not a real person, simply because they know it's not.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Some people are confusing replacing filming... with replacing actors.

Animators still use actors to make performances (see gollem in LoTR) or countless voice performances.

Yes animators can start with a blank slate and be responsible for all performance- but i don’t think that is what is being talked about. Its more about replacing the need for large scale in person live filming.

This is why the best simplification is calling this “animation”. This is what they have been doing for almost 100 years.
 

PaisleyMF

Active Member
One thing that was mention couple of pages ago was Avatar. Avatar has some, if not the best Motion Capture for any movie. They capture all the facial expressions and moves. Looks still to this day, amazing (even if the movie itself sucks). And now with even more detail that can be capture with the Deep Sense camera in the iPhones, you know that system that has facial recognition, is been used with UnReal engine (the system that renders Smugglers Run) and most video games. So actors can still do face and voice capture from home and the rest left to the animators.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
It's not Universal hasn't done a similar first with Gringotts....anything to get that Gaurdians monstrosity open sooner than later I'm all for
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Some people are confusing replacing filming... with replacing actors.

Animators still use actors to make performances (see gollem in LoTR) or countless voice performances.

Yes animators can start with a blank slate and be responsible for all performance- but i don’t think that is what is being talked about. Its more about replacing the need for large scale in person live filming.

This is why the best simplification is calling this “animation”. This is what they have been doing for almost 100 years.

Yeah, someday a virtual AI actor may be possible but for now it makes much more sense to use real actors for the voice and as the basis for the performance whether it's through motion capture or simply filming them while they do the voice.
 

No Name

Well-Known Member
I wonder if the financials even make sense yet. If the money they save on actors is being spent on animating the actors plus paying them an amount to record their lines and use their likenesses, for a result that may not sit quite right with audiences, is it worth it? Grand Moff Tarkin is a cold guy but imagine the difficulty in captivating charisma or romance with animated humans.

I’m interested in seeing them push the limits of technology so it’s worth a shot imo.
 

MKeeler

Well-Known Member
This may solve one problem Disney is having right now (how to produce live action films), but it doesn't solve the other major problem the film industry has because of the pandemic - namely, where to release these films. Disney being able to continue to produce live action films wouldn't really matter right now, unless they are willing to skip the theatrical release model and go directly to a VOD model. Going straight to Disney+ is a nice idea, but does not bring in near the revenue that a VOD or theatrical release would. There needs to be a lot of changes to many different aspects of Disney's film strategy for this to be largely beneficial.
 

rle4lunch

Well-Known Member
Recieved word recently that Disney is seeking to diversify its ability to produce movies and shorts in the event that the pandemic continues into the future, or in the event that such a crisis should ever occur again. According to sources, Disney is seeking to push forward with the same technology used to create movies such as The Lion King 2019 and The Jungle Book 2016, as well as human facial CGI seen in Rogue One, to begin work on an unnamed film that would be fully computer animated but presented as a live action film featuring human characters. The goal is to test the waters of creating computer animated films indistinguishable from live action, thus bypassing the need for actors (and actor salaries), as well as the need for proximity. According to one source, the unnamed film is a movie about young Indiana Jones, though no other person has been able to corroborate the subject matter.

Specific to Walt Disney World, the interesting information is that due to Guardians of the Galaxy 3 film shooting being significantly delayed, the company is interested in using Cosmic Rewind as a proof of concept if they are unable to get the coaster film work completed by the actors in person on time. Given that the Young Indy film (if the one source is accurate) could be 3-5 years out, this provides perfect timing for Disney to test audiences' reaction to the technology they've developed within an attraction. Decisions should be made within the next 2 months as to whether or not you'll be seeing a virtual, yet indistinguishable from real, Chris Pratt when you hop on the coaster.

Feige has likewise expressed interest in potentially moving forward with an offshoot Marvel series using the virtual live action system. Meanwhile, Lucasfilm inked a deal with Mark Hammill without much fanfare within the past 18 months which permits them to produce films featuring a CGI Luke Skywalker. I'm told that within that contract, Disney also is given the ability to use CGI faux reality Luke in future adaptations of Galaxy's Edge. Unfortunately, due to the abysmal financial situation, the latter may not come to fruition anytime soon.

Both in the parks and in theaters, it is likely going forward that Disney will use the pandemic to slowly begin moving towards computer animation as a substitute for human actors. Of course this doesn't mean that Disney will immediately stop traditional live film, just that they have the capability for the first time in history (they believe), and they're now prepared to move forward with it to some degree... if only because they never want to be in their current stalled position ever again.

Or they could just have the cast and crew sign releases stating that they won't hold Disney liable for catching covid. Seems like a huge waste of money. We've seen their efforts, and while impressive (except for Tron Legacy, what was that crap all about?), the uncanny valley is still light years away from being fully realistic. I'm not in favor of watching Disney's version of Final Fantasy VII.
 

gljvd

Active Member
Here’s a radical idea: hand drawn animation showing craft, depth, warmth, charm. It might be something to build a company on, even. :)
It's expensive and will get more expensive. With computer animation machine learning will start to get good enough to do animations. Once that happens the price of computer effects and animations will drastically drop. It will be hard to imagine a time that 2d hand drawn stuff comes back. You might get a big one off every decade but its not sustainable
 

tissandtully

Well-Known Member
Recieved word recently that Disney is seeking to diversify its ability to produce movies and shorts in the event that the pandemic continues into the future, or in the event that such a crisis should ever occur again. According to sources, Disney is seeking to push forward with the same technology used to create movies such as The Lion King 2019 and The Jungle Book 2016, as well as human facial CGI seen in Rogue One, to begin work on an unnamed film that would be fully computer animated but presented as a live action film featuring human characters. The goal is to test the waters of creating computer animated films indistinguishable from live action, thus bypassing the need for actors (and actor salaries), as well as the need for proximity. According to one source, the unnamed film is a movie about young Indiana Jones, though no other person has been able to corroborate the subject matter.

Specific to Walt Disney World, the interesting information is that due to Guardians of the Galaxy 3 film shooting being significantly delayed, the company is interested in using Cosmic Rewind as a proof of concept if they are unable to get the coaster film work completed by the actors in person on time. Given that the Young Indy film (if the one source is accurate) could be 3-5 years out, this provides perfect timing for Disney to test audiences' reaction to the technology they've developed within an attraction. Decisions should be made within the next 2 months as to whether or not you'll be seeing a virtual, yet indistinguishable from real, Chris Pratt when you hop on the coaster.

Feige has likewise expressed interest in potentially moving forward with an offshoot Marvel series using the virtual live action system. Meanwhile, Lucasfilm inked a deal with Mark Hammill without much fanfare within the past 18 months which permits them to produce films featuring a CGI Luke Skywalker. I'm told that within that contract, Disney also is given the ability to use CGI faux reality Luke in future adaptations of Galaxy's Edge. Unfortunately, due to the abysmal financial situation, the latter may not come to fruition anytime soon.

Both in the parks and in theaters, it is likely going forward that Disney will use the pandemic to slowly begin moving towards computer animation as a substitute for human actors. Of course this doesn't mean that Disney will immediately stop traditional live film, just that they have the capability for the first time in history (they believe), and they're now prepared to move forward with it to some degree... if only because they never want to be in their current stalled position ever again.
Not sure if your GotG claim is accurate, James Gunn already posted that they shot all the stuff for that ride.
 

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