The Big Berm Theory

[BoarderPhreak]

<ahem> Pardon the pun.

I was looking at various aerial photos of the Magic Kingdom (by bioreconstruct) when I looked at the "berm project" specifically, as I hadn't heard anything in a while. I don't recall seeing any plans for the area either; basically a mystery still, yes?

Then it dawned on me. Consider the following photograph, as seen from the Liberty Square area - you can see the Contemporary, clear as day:

If you look at where the berm is:

It's in a line, straight as the crow flies!

My theory is that they're reinforcing the shoreline area near the railroad tracks to place something... To give both the rail line something to look at - but more importantly, rise just high enough to shield the Contemporary from view from clear across the park...

Crazy - or plausible?

 

[cspencer96]

While it is interesting that the berm is in a straight line from Liberty Square’s bridge, it’s very unlikely that the purpose of this project is to block the view of the Contemporary. That view (and the portions of Tomorrowland seen across the Hub and in front of the Contemporary) is very much an intentional aspect of the original design of Magic Kingdom.

 

[roj2323]

<ahem> Pardon the pun.

I was looking at various aerial photos of the Magic Kingdom (by bioreconstruct) when I looked at the "berm project" specifically, as I hadn't heard anything in a while. I don't recall seeing any plans for the area either; basically a mystery still, yes?

Then it dawned on me. Consider the following photograph, as seen from the Liberty Square area - you can see the Contemporary, clear as day:

If you look at where the berm is:

View attachment 373986

It's in a line, straight as the crow flies!

View attachment 373985

My theory is that they're reinforcing the shoreline area near the railroad tracks to place something... To give both the rail line something to look at - but more importantly, rise just high enough to shield the Contemporary from view from clear across the park...

Crazy - or plausible?

Plausible. It really depends on if the ground level gets raised a significant amount over and above the track level. They would need at least 20 ft to push the trees up high enough to block the view from inside the park. That said, while plausible i'm not sure that the retaining walls are intended for that purpose.

 

[fradz]

If we're going in that "full theory mode", that could also mean they are looking to build something in the management parking spot (including previously Main Street Theater spot - but could also be for Tomorrowland) and want to cover sight lines

 

[ParksAndPixels]

I doubt it’s for this, but good catch and pun! It’s always bugged me seeing backstage from the train, I’d love to see that addressed. Unfortunately the Contemporary is probably only going to be hidden with more trees inside the park between liberty square and hub and I don’t see that happening again due to crowd levels.

 

[RandySavage]

Young people may not be aware that up until ~2001, the Central Hub was filled with fat, gorgeous shade trees, which solved that sightline issue from Liberty Square as seen in the first post of this thread. The hub was designed as the visual curtain between lands, obscuring enough to insulate and showing enough to draw interest to what lay beyond. The central trees and this curtain effect were sacrificed to open the area to castle show/fireworks viewing. Some think it a worthwhile trade-off, but I preferred the tree curtain and all that relaxing shade and Old World feel over the opened, barren center and easier to see castle/fireworks shows.

 

[Surfin' Tuna]

God, I miss that old look. Even more than that, I miss the feel of it.

 

[Movielover]

<ahem> Pardon the pun.

I was looking at various aerial photos of the Magic Kingdom (by bioreconstruct) when I looked at the "berm project" specifically, as I hadn't heard anything in a while. I don't recall seeing any plans for the area either; basically a mystery still, yes?

Then it dawned on me. Consider the following photograph, as seen from the Liberty Square area - you can see the Contemporary, clear as day:

If you look at where the berm is:

View attachment 373986

It's in a line, straight as the crow flies!

View attachment 373985

My theory is that they're reinforcing the shoreline area near the railroad tracks to place something... To give both the rail line something to look at - but more importantly, rise just high enough to shield the Contemporary from view from clear across the park...

Crazy - or plausible?

It is plausible, Charlie here confirms it...

 

[lazyboy97o]

A taller berm would be on the water management drawings.

 

[GhostHost1000]

that photo of the contemporary from liberty square doesn't even look real with the scale - even if you could see the contemporary from it which I don't think you can

 

[GlacierGlacier]

that photo of the contemporary from liberty square doesn't even look real with the scale - even if you could see the contemporary from it which I don't think you can

It's accurate - looking from liberty square towards tomorrowland can land you with a view of the contemporary quite similar to that photo. It's a strange case of perspective.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

I too miss the old shade trees. While I understand their motivation for the hub redesign, the loss of all the trees and green space is a bummer. That astroturf ain't doin' it for me. Not to mention the loss of the dragon and Mickey/Minnie topiaries.

Plausible. It really depends on if the ground level gets raised a significant amount over and above the track level. They would need at least 20 ft to push the trees up high enough to block the view from inside the park. That said, while plausible i'm not sure that the retaining walls are intended for that purpose.

A taller berm would be on the water management drawings.

If it's not a berm, then it's just solid footing for what they'll place on top - trees, a building, who knows. You don't need retaining walls unless you plan to add weight on top - or you're cutting out more space for the pond (and need to support the railroad tracks).

 

[lazyboy97o]

If it's not a berm, then it's just solid footing for what they'll place on top - trees, a building, who knows. You don't need retaining walls unless you plan to add weight on top - or you're cutting out more space for the pond (and need to support the railroad tracks).

The pond is being enlarged. A new building would show up on the water management plans as an impermeable surface.

 

[larryz]

The pond is being enlarged. A new building would show up on the water management plans as an impermeable surface.

Isn't a pond an impermeable surface?

 

[danlb_2000]

Isn't a pond an impermeable surface?

If it was concrete lined like the castle moat it would be, but retention ponds are not normally lined.

 

[danlb_2000]

According to the plans this is just a retaining wall. If they were putting anything other then landscaping there the plans would have shown it.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

Must be because of the proximity to the tracks - and the 20' drop to the pond so close. They'll probably cut those tracks a little tighter inwards too.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

Isn't a pond an impermeable surface?

Not this one. It is connected via a large ditch around Space Mountain to the pond just north of the Tron Site and then on to the canal behind MK, etc. the original ditch that went around Space Mountain was re-worked to go around Tron also, with the original being filled in. The Pond north of Tron was slightly enlarged on the south side, also this pond south of Space Mountain is being enlarged as well as a smaller pond for the newly paved CM lot to the east of World Drive (used to be a dirt lot). Though also as a side note, the original pond north of Space Mountain was not always there. Below are some quick screen shots of Google Earth from 2003 to 2018.

June 2003 no north pond yet. just a ditch connecting the south tomorrowland pond to the main canal system around MK, etc.

Dec 2004 north tomorrowland pond is dug.

May 2010 north tomorrowland pond is enlarged and island created.

Nov 2011 shows final size of north tomorrowland pond.

Dec 2018 shows north tomorrowland pond slightly enlarged again, island removed and ditch re-routed around tron site.

Also while ponds can hold water, they are still permeable earth bottoms. unless you build a pond in your yard with a pvc liner. even the clay bottom ponds have some water penetration. With ponds they are typically deep enough that they enter the water table. Otherwise they would dry up once a storm was over. There are some stormwater ponds that are shallow enough that this happens.


In this view from May 18, 2019 from Bioreconstruct you can see the completed ditch around tron site that connects fully with north tomorrowland pond again.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Otherwise they would dry up once a storm was over. There are some stormwater ponds that are shallow enough that this happens.

This is the difference between retention ponds and detention ponds. Retention ponds are designed to have water in them at all times.

 

[Missing20K]

<ahem> Pardon the pun.

I was looking at various aerial photos of the Magic Kingdom (by bioreconstruct) when I looked at the "berm project" specifically, as I hadn't heard anything in a while. I don't recall seeing any plans for the area either; basically a mystery still, yes?

Then it dawned on me. Consider the following photograph, as seen from the Liberty Square area - you can see the Contemporary, clear as day:

If you look at where the berm is:

View attachment 373986

It's in a line, straight as the crow flies!

View attachment 373985

My theory is that they're reinforcing the shoreline area near the railroad tracks to place something... To give both the rail line something to look at - but more importantly, rise just high enough to shield the Contemporary from view from clear across the park...

Crazy - or plausible?

In the first picture, one can see the top half or so of the contemporary. When considering where the "berm" would be allegedly built, it would not shield the contemporary from liberty square. It's just simply too far away unless the berm is as tall as at least half the height of the contemporary. If they were building a berm of building closer to liberty square, you could accomplish the screening effect with a structure as short as 20 or 30 feet. The "berm" or screening device, must get progressively taller as it gets further from the viewer, and closer to the object that is desired to be screened, to the point of it being as tall as the object being screened.