Tenaya Stone Spa and Cultural Appropriation

[Californian Elitist]

As far as I'm concerned they will never be about inclusion until they cut ties with China.

Doing business with China and implementing inclusion (regarding both employees and guests) are two vastly different issues that don’t connect with each other. That’s like saying Disney will never be about inclusion unless they clear the drought in California. Two different issues.

 

[CaptinEO]

Doing business with China and implementing inclusion (regarding both employees and guests) are two vastly different issues that don’t connect with each other. That’s like saying Disney will never be about inclusion unless they clear the drought in California. Two different issues.

You are incorrect.

China is locking up muslims in government run concentration camps and it is arguably a genocide against a group of people.

The very government that owns 2/3rds and gets 2/3rds of the profits of Shanghai Disney. The very government the company does everything they can to be close to in order to make money off their citizens who are living a human rights nightmare.

 

[drizgirl]

I had to look twice to make sure I wasn't reading The Onion or Babylon Bee.

 

[CaptinEO]

Doing business with China and implementing inclusion (regarding both employees and guests) are two vastly different issues that don’t connect with each other. That’s like saying Disney will never be about inclusion unless they clear the drought in California. Two different issues.

This is also very much the reason Disney is in a pickle with both their fans and local government with their Florida politician support, they are saying/preaching one thing publicly but are doing something entirely differently.

Being business partners with a country locking up Muslims in labor camps and them thanking communist party officials in the credits of their movies is in absolute violation of any supposed "inclusion key" or however they word it.

 

[Californian Elitist]

You are incorrect.

China is locking up muslims in government run concentration camps and it is arguably a genocide against a group of people.

The very government that owns 2/3rds and gets 2/3rds of the profits of Shanghai Disney. The very government the company does everything they can to be close to in order to make money off their citizens who are living a human rights nightmare.

What does that have to do with making sure that employees here in America feel welcomed at the workplace?

As you stated, you’re talking about a human rights/capitalism issue. Inclusion is a social one.

 

[CaptinEO]

What does that have to do with making sure that employees here in America feel welcomed at the workplace?

As you stated, you’re talking about a human rights/capitalism issue. Inclusion is a social one.

Per the announcement the inclusion key extends to Disney's entire business and is not just a model for castmembers.

Furthermore do you think inclusion shouldn't apply to muslim cast members of Disney's Corporate Office Buildings or Shanghai Disneyland, who don't exist because the Chinese government imprisons them?

A Place Where Everyone is Welcome

“To all who come to this happy place: Welcome.” Walt Disney spoke these words during the dedication of the Disneyland Resort in 1955. Today, more than 65 years later, they continue to inspire us - and remind us that the magic we make must

disneyparks.disney.go.com

Inclusion is very much a human rights issue. Saying that only straight people can be married, or gays can't dance in Disneyland nightclubs are human rights issues. You are excluding a group of people.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

This is also very much the reason Disney is in a pickle with both their fans and local government with their Florida politician support, they are saying/preaching one thing publicly but are doing something entirely differently.

Being business partners with a country locking up Muslims in labor camps and them thanking communist party officials in the credits of their movies is in absolute violation of any supposed "inclusion key" or however they word it.

While I don’t think divesting from China is a realistic option, I do think there’s inconsistency with their (mostly domestic) public messaging and their business arrangements both here and abroad that they could eventually get pulled into. Which is why from a messaging perspective I agree their primary role is to make money for shareholders.

Particularly given the significant amount of editing required to get films approved by CCP censors which has some degree of creative ramifications here too. Then of course there is significant business risk with China in the future that they could get egg on their face.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Per the announcement the inclusion key extends to Disney's entire business and is not just a model for castmembers.

A Place Where Everyone is Welcome

“To all who come to this happy place: Welcome.” Walt Disney spoke these words during the dedication of the Disneyland Resort in 1955. Today, more than 65 years later, they continue to inspire us - and remind us that the magic we make must

disneyparks.disney.go.com

Inclusion is very much a human rights issue. Saying that only straight people can be married, or gays can't dance in Disneyland nightclubs are human rights issues. You are excluding a group of people.

Yes, inclusion can be extended outside of employees, as I stated. The two still aren’t the same. Someone studying human rights issues across the globe will likely not encounter much or anything at all about inclusion in the workplace or at the university, etc. in their studies as an example of a major human rights concern.

It’s more social. Have you ever studied/had training on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) work?

 

[CaptinEO]

Yes, inclusion can be extended outside of employees, as I stated. The two still aren’t the same. Someone studying human rights issues across the globe will likely not encounter much or anything at all about inclusion in the workplace or at the university, etc. in their studies as an example of a major human rights concern.

It’s more social. Have you ever studied/had training on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) work?

That means cultivating an environment where all people feel welcomed and appreciated for their unique life experiences, perspectives and culture. Where we celebrate allyship and support for each other. And where diverse views and ideas are sought after as critical contributions towards our collective success.

This wordage is from their own announcement of the key.

How is it not a violation of their key to talk about celebrating our differences and all walks of life and cultures but then giving money and being business partners to those that are committing genocide on a culture?

You are saying that you can be inclusive and be business partners with a regime committing genocide? Please explain.

It's more lying to the public BS from the same company that talked about reducing waste while having Ziplcoc hand out plastic bags on Splash Mountain.

 

[el_super]

As far as I'm concerned they will never be about inclusion until they cut ties with China.

But have you cut ties with China yet?

While I don’t think divesting from China is a realistic option, I do think there’s inconsistency with their (mostly domestic) public messaging and their business arrangements both here and abroad that they could eventually get pulled into. Which is why from a messaging perspective I agree their primary role is to make money for shareholders.

There is definitely risk involved, certainly, but I don't see it as a vastly insurmountable inconsistency, and certainly not anymore so than attempting to continue business in Florida after the latest political debacle there.

Disney still makes diversity and inclusion a priority, even in Shanghai, even if that inclusion looks different to a different audience than it does here. Disney asserting cultural influence in China still has value, whereas completely pulling out accomplishes nothing.

 

[Californian Elitist]

This wordage is from their own announcement of the key.

How is it not a violation of their key to talk about celebrating our differences and all walks of life and cultures but then giving money and being business partners to those that are committing genocide on a culture?

You are saying that you can be inclusive and be business partners with a regime committing genocide? Please explain.

It's more lying to the public BS from the same company that talked about reducing waste while having Ziplcoc hand out plastic bags on Splash Mountain.

So that’s a no, then? I figured that.

I’m not going to take my time to explain something that you seem to have no basic understanding of. Again, these two different circumstances/issues don’t connect. I’ll leave it at that.

If someone else would like to explain, by all means.

 

[CaptinEO]

While I don’t think divesting from China is a realistic option, I do think there’s inconsistency with their (mostly domestic) public messaging and their business arrangements both here and abroad that they could eventually get pulled into. Which is why from a messaging perspective I agree their primary role is to make money for shareholders.

Particularly given the significant amount of editing required to get films approved by CCP censors which has some degree of creative ramifications here too. Then of course there is significant business risk with China in the future that they could get egg on their face.

It seems as of recent people are calling Disney out on their double life so to speak (public messaging vs business). I think this era of pretending to be a crusader of good to the public is going to have to come to an end, very soon.

Heres two articles from the last 24 hours.

Disney may be woke, but it’s also goofy

Perhaps you’ve heard that at Disney World in Lake Buena Vista, Fla., they won’t be using the welcome greeting, “Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls” for the Magic Kingdom fireworks show anymore. A…

thehill.com

But here’s something I do care about: hypocrisy. While Disney is vying for the honor of being America’s most woke company by proclaiming undying support for gay rights, it’s doing business with countries where homosexuality is against the law.

While Disney is bashing and distorting Florida’s new law that bans teaching children as young as 5 about sexual and gender orientation, Disney cruise ships are sailing into countries where homosexuality is illegal and punishable by long prison sentences.

Disney offers a Southern Caribbean cruise, which sails this July, to Antigua, Dominica and St. Maarten. In Antigua, homosexual activities can land you in prison for up to 15 years. In Dominica, same-sex sexual activity carries a penalty of up to 12 years in prison. In St. Maarten, performing same-sex marriages on the island is illegal, and it’s against the law to change one’s legal gender.

And according to Fox News, Disney +, the company’s streaming service, is expanding its business into countries with strict anti-gay laws. They include Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and Yemen. In many of those places, homosexual activity is punishable by fines, hard labor and long prison sentences.

How does Disney justify this? How can the company decide it’s a good idea to campaign against Florida’s Parental Rights in Education law while continuing to do business with countries where being gay is a crime?

GOP targets Disney's Mickey Mouse copyright, says company 'influencing small children' with 'sexual agenda'

Nearly two dozen lawmakers on the Republican Study Commission (RSC) sent a letter to Disney's CEO declaring their opposition to renewing the company's copyright on Mickey Mouse, which is set to expire in 2024.

www.foxnews.com

Nearly two dozen lawmakers on the Republican Study Commission (RSC) sent a letter Thursday to Walt Disney Company CEO Bob Chapek, declaring their opposition to renewing the company's copyright on Mickey Mouse, which is set to expire in 2024.

RSC Chair Rep. Jim Banks of Indiana spearheaded the letter, which cites Disney's ties to China and the company's "political and sexual agenda" as their reason for opposing a copyright extension.

Disney has come under increasing political fire for attacking Florida's parental rights bill.

"In recent years, Disney has sought to expand business in China by kowtowing to its Communist regime, which is actively engaged in human rights abuses and the theft of U.S. intellectual property. Disney even filmed a movie in Xinjiang province, where officials are currently waging genocide against Uyghur Muslims, then thanked local Communist Party authorities in the movie credits," the Republican members wrote.

 

[el_super]

Pure hubris of the team who designed this spa to not only willfully and shamelessly appropriate Indigenous culture, but to also do it poorly, painting the beliefs of Natives who are still alive in broad strokes Pocahontas-style.

Even more aggravating is how the spa was already beautiful without the fake Indigenous roots, and the context only makes the experience feel ugly in comparison.

I do feel compelled to say something here, even though others have basically covered it. The only thing I really have to add is that, in addition to the mistake made by Disney, there is something else to be said about the spa culture in general in California that facilitated this. Disney certainly shouldn't get a pass for just following the trends, but the industry as a whole needs to change direction for the better.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I had to look twice to make sure I wasn't reading The Onion or Babylon Bee.

It straight up reminds me of Indiana Jones ...in a very bad way

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Watching


But have you cut ties with China yet?



There is definitely risk involved, certainly, but I don't see it as a vastly insurmountable inconsistency, and certainly not anymore so than attempting to continue business in Florida after the latest political debacle there.

Disney still makes diversity and inclusion a priority, even in Shanghai, even if that inclusion looks different to a different audience than it does here. Disney asserting cultural influence in China still has value, whereas completely pulling out accomplishes nothing.

You and I are probably closer to agreement on this and to avoid getting flagged for politics will keep it brief.

The broader issues in China are probably more in the context of how Disney handled Russia and any parallels (if pushed) given the mainland’s efforts to exert influence in Hong Kong which may be a bigger risk long term than Shanghai. Then there’s the lingering issue of Taiwan.

Switching topics: Curious @el_super as arguably one of the more pro-TWDC folks on here what are your thoughts on the Tenaya spa mess?

 

[CaptinEO]

So that’s a no, then? I figured that.

I’m not going to take my time to explain something that you seem to have no basic understanding of. Again, these two different circumstances/issues don’t connect. I’ll leave it at that.

If someone else would like to explain, by all means.

I clearly explained they are in violation of their own messaging from their own definition, which is my entire point.

If you can explain how they are not in violation of celebrating all walks of life and cultures across their business while supporting a country committing genocide please elaborate.

Do you think Disney will be making content staring Chinese muslims soon? Do you think they dont report chinese muslims to the state police to be taken into camps?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Anyways, getting this thread back on topic, do we think Disney will make a public apology and make changes or quietly close the spa and make changes?

 

[el_super]

The broader issues in China are probably more in the context of how Disney handled Russia and any parallels (if pushed) given the mainland’s efforts to exert influence in Hong Kong which may be a bigger risk long term than Shanghai. Then there’s the lingering issue of Taiwan.

Exactly this. China as a whole is a big place, and just like America, there are still different groups and different factions all vying for more power and control. It gets lost in the political messaging, but Shanghai and Hong Kong are (or in some cases were) the most liberal outposts within China. Shanghai, at its core, isn't all that different from an LA or New York: it's still a big international city with lots of foreign influences and sensibilities.

There is absoluetly a risk that could change, on a whim, but I don't see it as all that different from what is going on in Florida. Disney still has a chance to promote their agenda and uphold their goals and bugging out and declaring defeat doesn't make sense just yet. (Yet)

Switching topics: Curious @el_super as arguably one of the more pro-TWDC folks on here what are your thoughts on the Tenaya spa mess?

Oh... it is a mess. This wasn't really mentioned in the article, but the sign they put up to "acknowledge" the other tribes was put up after the spa had already opened. It seemed that whatever mess they got themselves into, someone at least recognized it awhile back and tried to make amends... just bad on every level.

I will acknowledge though, that at least they are trying. Certainly they need to do better and they've had some amazing successes with their cultural teams, but they can't get everything 100% right. Better they got the spa wrong, than a 300 million dollar movie.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Anyways, getting this thread back on topic, do we think Disney will make a public apology and make changes or quietly close the spa and make changes?

I think they should do the latter. I also think if there’s a way they could make the wronged parties in this case financially whole that would be great.

I’d prefer they resist the insatiable desire do this in a way that would draw more untoward attention.

 

[CaptinEO]

Anyways, getting this thread back on topic, do we think Disney will make a public apology and make changes or quietly close the spa and make changes?

My guess is they'll keep it open but slowly remove/replace the offending decorations.

Sounds like someone swindled them, but they should have done their research.