Team Villains - Stanza V: Patch 'Em Up

[AceAstro]

View attachment 350053
Lagoon layout - It seems to have developed piecemeal over its 120+ year history, with attractions added along a grid pattern. There’s a shaded north-south midway serving the park as a whole. Notice a TON of available space to develop along the north. We can mostly leave the existing park alone and add our self-contained expansion up there. Keep in mind a mountain range to the east which provides picturesque panoramas.

View attachment 350056
Kennywood layout - Generally this area is on a slope, with the lower left area the tallest point and the upper right area the lowest, emptying into a massive river valley. The southeastern patch of parking lot provides maybe 30 or more acres to play with. Note the existing entry plaza near there. The big problem is Kennywood Blvd. separating entry from the park, which presently is connected by a dingy concrete tunnel under the street. How do we improve that? Stay below grade with a prettier gradual tunnel? Sky bridge over it? Work with the city to sink the roadway like Disney Drive in Anaheim and have a wide ground level bridge over it?

View attachment 350057
Morey’ Piers layout - Only two piers are visible here; Surfside Pier sits to the north. This shows how the Wildwood Boardwalk divides the park space, and how vast the beach is. Note also the Splash Zone Waterpark, something Morey’s does NOT own (they have a competing waterpark on the edge of the nearest pier). I know the Morey’s people want it gone! Note also underutilized lots inland which could serve as a new dedicated Morey’s hotel and parking facility.

View attachment 350060
Dollywood layout - I don’t know what’s going on here. I know it’s in mountainous terrain, so I suspect the only developable land are that massive cleared area north of the park (I think Wildwood Grove is occupying a portion of this space) and that green circle to the east which might be inaccessible except by the railroad. I have no insights here.

There are interesting challenges with a few parks.

I think Lagoon is the easiest as we have LOTS of land with nothing in the way.

For Kennywood, another possible location is the area just North of Racer that is already under construction (according to their current map):

For Morey's, do we go with the water park route?

Dollywood is a tricky one. Do we make an exclusive land after getting off the train? It's always an interesting idea but feels like you are limiting your potential number of people going there...

 

[D Hulk]

For Kennywood, let’s leave that construction site alone. That’s where Steelers Country is opening later this year.

The only other Kennywood options (other than the parking lot) involve demolishing. Their lower right corner has only picnic grounds and a mediocre Gerstlauer, but it’s not much space.

With space at an even greater premium at Morey’s, I support revitalizing their existing piers over adding on. They have a water park already. Improve the general pier aesthetic (we can’t touch the Boardwalk) and add a few headliners to command attention.

Dollywood...I’m a blank.

 

[AceAstro]

For Kennywood, let’s leave that construction site alone. That’s where Steelers Country is opening later this year.

The only other Kennywood options (other than the parking lot) involve demolishing. Their lower right corner has only picnic grounds and a mediocre Gerstlauer, but it’s not much space.

Good to know. How do the guests currently get from that entrance plaza to the park? Is it through a tunnel? What if we moved the entrance deeper into the parking lot and had the expansion be the 30 acre lot there?

I agree with the idea of Morey's. Keep it simple.

I had no idea how tight on space Dollywood truly was before this. It is veryyyyy tricky.

 

[kmbmw777]

@kmbmw777, you mentioned a Greek Myth class. What about a theme like that? If not that, then perhaps Arthurian legend or dinosaurs or…other IP-free concepts with broad, universal, child-friendly appeal?

I love the idea of Greek Myths, because we'd be appealing to my generation in terms of thrill ride, and my generation is the one that grew up on Percy Jackson. One of my main questions about this is how does it fit with the rest of the park, which is themed to carnivals? There's no easy way to make that transition work.

Dollywood layout - I don’t know what’s going on here. I know it’s in mountainous terrain, so I suspect the only developable land are that massive cleared area north of the park (I think Wildwood Grove is occupying a portion of this space) and that green circle to the east which might be inaccessible except by the railroad. I have no insights here.

I think I remember an area where there was a little space, but if not, I think that one of our best options remains to build an indoor waterpark near the hotel. This would allow us to expand an already great park

With space at an even greater premium at Morey’s, I support revitalizing their existing piers over adding on. They have a water park already. Improve the general pier aesthetic (we can’t touch the Boardwalk) and add a few headliners to command attention.

I also am in full favor of rehauling the current attractions that exist.


EDIT: I just found out that Dollywood already has a water park...

 

[kmbmw777]

This area (near the entrance of Dollywood) is perfect for an expansion land. The red is atop a small hill, while the blue is all flat. The only problem I see is that paths would have to go through some coasters.

EDIT: I now realize this is where Wildwood Grove would be going... So why don't we scratch that land and build our own here. Or maybe go beyond the second road. Or on top of the hill

 

[AceAstro]

View attachment 350091
This area (near the entrance of Dollywood) is perfect for an expansion land. The red is atop a small hill, while the blue is all flat. The only problem I see is that paths would have to go through some coasters.

EDIT: I now realize this is where Wildwood Grove would be going... So why don't we scratch that land and build our own here. Or maybe go beyond the second road. Or on top of the hill

I love the idea of the blue land we would just have to find a way to get the path up there!

 

[D Hulk]

Some thoughts on themes:

Morey’s Piers
I’ve already elaborated a plan to redecorate the existing piers in a vintage seaside trolley park style largely inspired by the defunct amusement parks of Coney Island. For now I’m sticking with that.

Kennywood
The existing park is a perfect preserved trolley park, so for the area we’re devdoping near the entrance I propose a turn-of-the-century 1900 Pittsburgh neighborhood. Make it feel like guests are in old-timey America approaching a park at the end of the trolley line. There would be a functioning trolley ride, period houses, period baseball games, an Industrial Revolution factory houses say an RMC T-Rex coaster, and more. I’m taking inspiration from Henry Ford’s Greenfield Village (a romanticized preserved 1900 town - betcha now rue introducing me to this place @James G.), now less historical and more theme parky.

Lagoon
Since Greek Myth barely fits the existing park, we want something with timeless cross-generational appeal, something unique which still ties into local Utah history....

I propose Cretaceous Caverns, a subterranean lost world where dinosaurs survived, a world discovered by 19th century pioneers. This gives us the Old West topic which fits local history, it let’s us do beautiful and stylized Utah rock work, it combines topics beloved by children of all ages, it even allows for some indoor stuff which can operate in winter. A dino world wholly unique from Jurassic Park or, uh, Dinoland USA, with potential rides like a river journey or a mine train coaster or a stunt show all improved with copious animatronic monsters everywhere!

Dollywood
Again, this is your guys’ barbecue. What about an Appalachian topic like moonshiners and rum runners. A chase between them and the G-Men could yield some theme park fun.

Regarding Dollywood’s available space, is there any way we can add stuff to the existing park? Are there empty plots in between current attractions?

Here’s how Wildwood Grove fits behind Thunderhead:

 

[AceAstro]

Some thoughts on themes:

Morey’s Piers
I’ve already elaborated a plan to redecorate the existing piers in a vintage seaside trolley park style largely inspired by the defunct amusement parks of Coney Island. For now I’m sticking with that.

Kennywood
The existing park is a perfect preserved trolley park, so for the area we’re devdoping near the entrance I propose a turn-of-the-century 1900 Pittsburgh neighborhood. Make it feel like guests are in old-timey America approaching a park at the end of the trolley line. There would be a functioning trolley ride, period houses, period baseball games, an Industrial Revolution factory houses say an RMC T-Rex coaster, and more. I’m taking inspiration from Henry Ford’s Greenfield Village (a romanticized preserved 1900 town - betcha now rue introducing me to this place @James G.), now less historical and more theme parky.

Lagoon
Since Greek Myth barely fits the existing park, we want something with timeless cross-generational appeal, something unique which still ties into local Utah history....

I propose Cretaceous Caverns, a subterranean lost world where dinosaurs survived, a world discovered by 19th century pioneers. This gives us the Old West topic which fits local history, it let’s us do beautiful and stylized Utah rock work, it combines topics beloved by children of all ages, it even allows for some indoor stuff which can operate in winter. A dino world wholly unique from Jurassic Park or, uh, Dinoland USA, with potential rides like a river journey or a mine train coaster or a stunt show all improved with copious animatronic monsters everywhere!

Dollywood
Again, this is your guys’ barbecue. What about an Appalachian topic like moonshiners and rum runners. A chase between them and the G-Men could yield some theme park fun.

Regarding Dollywood’s available space, is there any way we can add stuff to the existing park? Are there empty plots in between current attractions?

Here’s how Wildwood Grove fits behind Thunderhead:

This all looks good to me! I LOVE the idea of dinosaurs. A safe IP that can be used effectively in any park. I will have to look at a map of Dollywood again as that space is tight.

 

[D Hulk]

Some discussion on the land clearance going on at Dollywood, and what it could entail. There’s also some talk about what themes DW fans might want to see.

Some mention a snowy ski lodge area. I’m picturing a romanticied National Park full of fun camping and outdoors themed attractions as another option, one with family-friendly potential plus some thrills. Imagine a forested version of Jungle Cruise perhaps (with a bit of Animal Kingdom?), or an RV airstream trailer dark ride, hiking nature trails DAK style or ropes courses or rafting. Dollywood boasts a careful connection to nature, and we could play into that.

It could be fairly akin to Grizzly Peak in DCA, but I trust we can distinguish it.

 

[kmbmw777]

Quick Intro:
Ratigan/D Hindley walked out of the meeting smiling. “The fool fell for it!”

Yokai/kmbmw777 shifted back into his regular body, “Hah! He must think we’re a bunch of idiots!”

Randall/AceAstro frowned. “Even though he’s blinded by his own adrenaline, I think you are both failing to realize that he’s about to assemble a team of the best of the best. Maleficent will kill us if we loose, and if she doesn’t those Brers will!”

“No Ace,” kmbmw777 smiled. “First, we’re the best of the best.” He held out his hand, expecting a hi-five or maybe a “shell yeah!” from his teammates, but no one got the hint, and kmbmw777 was left standing with his hand out, like an idiot.

D Hindley didn’t miss a beat in finishing kmbmw777’s analysis. “And even if we loose, the point of this isn’t to win - though if we do that’s great. The point is to get the heroes comfy. So many people working together. That way when they’re divided again next round - BAM!”

“They won’t be able to get any more stars,” AceAstro finished. He realized the full potential of this round. His mind wasn’t in the moment - it was in the endgame.

“But if we win that would be so much better,” kmbmw777 said.

“Kev, don’t say if we win. Say when we win,” D Hindley finished. “James and those heroes will not know what hit them.”

 

[kmbmw777]

I'll comment more on themes tomorrow. Before bed, quick summary of my thoughts - huge fan of the ideas, Ratigan. Especially the dinosaurs thing. It works in every way. My concern with the Kennywood addition is that it resembles Main Street USA, maybe a little bit too much. Again, I'll elaborate tomorrow. Having only 8 and 9 ams will be the death of me....

 

[D Hulk]

Morning recap.

Morey’s Piers
We’re agreed on improving existing piers over any attempted expansion, and also perhaps a resort. Retheming focused on vintage seaside trolley parks. I shall make this my focus today (I’m at home waiting on maddenly gauge 9-5 deliveries). We’ll see how the budgeting plays out for hotel + retheming + a few new headliners.

Kennywood
We all agree on expanding into the parking area, and with that improving parking lots and the entrance (with a focus on how guests cross Kennywood Blvd.). Theme remains up-in-the-air. @AceAstro correctly suggested my 1900 idea was too close to Main Street, so let’s hear his deeper critiques and debate other options.

Lagoon
Think we’re agreed on an immersive dinosaur land (with cowboys?) in part of their copious expansion space. Next would be creating an attraction/shop/restaurant menu perhaps on par with Hogsmeade and building from there. Any of us can do this.

Dollywood
This needs the most attention! We’re still discussing spatial issues and we’re not settled on a single theme. More thoughts to follow...

 

[D Hulk]

Regarding Dollywood’s layout. That cleared area north of Thunderhead is going to be 60-70% Wildwood Grove. Any remaining space up there is insufficient for a newer land; it’s better as WG expansion.

What about that area to the east?

I believe we could clear and flatten the land here connecting the park’s current eastern edge (between Tennessee Tornado and Firechaser Express) to the green railroad turnaround. Like with WG, we’ll be creating a dead end area which likely requires some uphill walking to reach. WG shows this is a viable option however.

Let’s supplement by using the Dollywood Express as transportation to also get here, plus an optional funicular to ascend the slope. (The same solution I’ve proposed for Kennywood; I like funiculars.)

The service road in the southeast suggests how wide our land could be headed to the green circle. While I suspect the terrain beyond the circle is too hilly for walkway development, Dollywood has shown a skill for developing thrill rides to their terrain. Let’s push thrills into the woods (maybe also an off-road DAK-style North American animal ride) and reserved the flattened area for dark rides and family rides. This make sense?

 

[D Hulk]

Lastly (for now), presentation.

With so much content, let’s keep it simple. And let’s not over-write. A few strong visuals with 1-2 sentence descriptions will go further.

Do we unite our 4 parks with like a fan site breaking news thing? Do we visually recreate the 4 parks’ websites and do it as 4 official announcements? We don’t need an elaborate backstory for joining the 4 disparate parks, but let’s at least use a similar to present each of them.

 

[AceAstro]

We all agree on expanding into the parking area, and with that improving parking lots and the entrance (with a focus on how guests cross Kennywood Blvd.). Theme remains up-in-the-air. @AceAstro correctly suggested my 1900 idea was too close to Main Street, so let’s hear his deeper critiques and debate other options.

I think something like this could work we just need to focus more on what makes it different. A functioning trolley ride wouldn't work. However, the period houses, period baseball games, an Industrial Revolution factory houses say an RMC T-Rex coaster sort of thing, could work. And based on the Steeler Country area they are adding Kennywood loves flashy coasters so an RMC would definitely fit.

Regarding Dollywood’s layout. That cleared area north of Thunderhead is going to be 60-70% Wildwood Grove. Any remaining space up there is insufficient for a newer land; it’s better as WG expansion.

What about that area to the east?

View attachment 350315

I believe we could clear and flatten the land here connecting the park’s current eastern edge (between Tennessee Tornado and Firechaser Express) to the green railroad turnaround. Like with WG, we’ll be creating a dead end area which likely requires some uphill walking to reach. WG shows this is a viable option however.

Let’s supplement by using the Dollywood Express as transportation to also get here, plus an optional funicular to ascend the slope. (The same solution I’ve proposed for Kennywood; I like funiculars.)

The service road in the southeast suggests how wide our land could be headed to the green circle. While I suspect the terrain beyond the circle is too hilly for walkway development, Dollywood has shown a skill for developing thrill rides to their terrain. Let’s push thrills into the woods (maybe also an off-road DAK-style North American animal ride) and reserved the flattened area for dark rides and family rides. This make sense?

I like the idea of this area. It's secluded but I think we could use the train to our advantage. We just need a theme for it...

 

[D Hulk]

My research has turned up this:

The Mauch Chunk Switchback Railway, the very first "roller coaster" in U.S. history! It opened back in 1827 in Pennsylvania (so very close to Kennywood), as part of a real coal mine railway repurposed as a thrilling ride attraction.

Something like this - modified into a modern thrill machine with vintage theming - could match Kennywood very well I feel! It would be a fun addition to the RMC T-Rex steel factory idea.

And since we'd need some family attractions as well, I quickly looked into vintage Pennsylvania coal mining. A highly-themed dark ride into the mines is an obvious concept, but a fun one. Check out the amazing facade we could use:

And here's a 19th-century PA steel mill:

 

[AceAstro]

And since we'd need some family attractions as well, I quickly looked into vintage Pennsylvania coal mining. A highly-themed dark ride into the mines is an obvious concept, but a fun one. Check out the amazing facade we could use:

I love this facade idea!! I think that would be a beautiful way to enter into a dark ride.

 

[kmbmw777]

Lastly (for now), presentation.

With so much content, let’s keep it simple. And let’s not over-write. A few strong visuals with 1-2 sentence descriptions will go further.

Do we unite our 4 parks with like a fan site breaking news thing? Do we visually recreate the 4 parks’ websites and do it as 4 official announcements? We don’t need an elaborate backstory for joining the 4 disparate parks, but let’s at least use a similar to present each of them.

I like your idea of a fan site presenting breaking news. Maybe a press release, in which newscasters are going over all of the planned additions. It would explain why some things are not as in depth as others.

Regarding Dollywood’s layout. That cleared area north of Thunderhead is going to be 60-70% Wildwood Grove. Any remaining space up there is insufficient for a newer land; it’s better as WG expansion.

What about that area to the east?

View attachment 350315

I believe we could clear and flatten the land here connecting the park’s current eastern edge (between Tennessee Tornado and Firechaser Express) to the green railroad turnaround. Like with WG, we’ll be creating a dead end area which likely requires some uphill walking to reach. WG shows this is a viable option however.

Let’s supplement by using the Dollywood Express as transportation to also get here, plus an optional funicular to ascend the slope. (The same solution I’ve proposed for Kennywood; I like funiculars.)

The service road in the southeast suggests how wide our land could be headed to the green circle. While I suspect the terrain beyond the circle is too hilly for walkway development, Dollywood has shown a skill for developing thrill rides to their terrain. Let’s push thrills into the woods (maybe also an off-road DAK-style North American animal ride) and reserved the flattened area for dark rides and family rides. This make sense?

This seems like a perfect location for our new land for the park.

Some mention a snowy ski lodge area. I’m picturing a romanticied National Park full of fun camping and outdoors themed attractions as another option, one with family-friendly potential plus some thrills. Imagine a forested version of Jungle Cruise perhaps (with a bit of Animal Kingdom?), or an RV airstream trailer dark ride, hiking nature trails DAK style or ropes courses or rafting. Dollywood boasts a careful connection to nature, and we could play into that.

This seems awesome, but it is also so similar to the rest of the park that it would almost be indistinguishable. Dollywood at its core is about preservation of the Smokey Mountains. This idea may be a long shot, but what if the train takes us to Dollywood's sci-fi land. (Most of the Disney parks try to have a sci-fi land, a medieval/fantasy land, a wild unkept land, and a nostalgia land). There are two ways to play this

• Good future. Mankind has a great relationship with the natural world and its like a utopia. What we should strive for. Sort of like Pandora.
• Bad future. Mankind has bad relationship with natural world and it is like an apocolypse. What we should avoid. Fallout-y aesthetics.

 

[D Hulk]

MOREY’S PIERS DESIGN & BUDGET NOTES

COSTS TO CREATE A HOTEL RESORT
​

A big part of of our Morey’s Piers redevelopment involves the creation of an upper midscale resort hotel centrally located near the Wildwood Boardwalk and the central Dream Pier (formerly Mariner’s Pier). Morey’s Doo Wop Hotel is an affordable destination resort done in the same Googie/Populuxe style seen throughout Wildwood.

Cost of commercial property in downtown Wildwood: $4-$10 million per city block
Hotel costs per room (upper midscale level): $148,000
500 rooms = $74 million (this room count can change)
Additional hotel costs (lobby, common areas, etc.): $16 million
Total hotel cost: $100 million

This leaves us with $150 million to improve the piers.
$110 million for specific headliner additions
$40 million for aesthetic enhancements across all 3 piers

REDEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THE THREE PIERS
​

Altogether, the three piers at Morey’s boast around 100 rides and attractions. Most are small plug-n-play carnival rides. They create a fun overall atmosphere which is worth preserving, but little is individually a draw.

This proposal rethemes each pier with inspiration from Coney Island’s long-lost amusement parks. This creates a cohesive aesthetic across each individual pier, enough to unite the admittedly disparate and underthemed rides already there. This seems the most realistic solution to plussing the Piers while maintaining their rough-and-tumble seaside charm.

In addition, this proposal creates a number of new headliner attractions which will act as must-do draws to attract visitors.

LUNA PIER
(formerly Surfside Pier)
​

Visual design inspiration comes from Luna Park. New décor has a Victorian Orientalist vibe, complete with popcorn bulbs, a red & white paint scheme, and detailed architectural finishings like spires and minarets and domes. All surviving attractions are redressed in this style, often with triumphal statues or other eye-catching marque decorations. Here and throughout the other piers, our design team adds vintage murals and posters and advertisements, all helping to create a unique nostalgic headspace.

Dragon’s Gorge: A major headliner coaster to replace The Great Nor’easter (a Vekoma SLC). This will be either a Mack Rides launch coaster or an Intamin Blitz launch coaster, crisscrossing a compact space and interacting with heavy theming. The ride concept comes from a Luna Park scenic railway where guests rode an exotic dragon through its enchanted ice valley lair. The budget is $30 million, with a cost and expected positive visitor impact similar to Phantasialand’s Taron. This becomes Morey’s northern anchor attraction.

​

A Trip to the Moon: A highly-themed suspended dark ride to replace the Dante’s Dungeon spook house. Additional ride space is found by extending below the boardwalk, a common pier park technique used on the nearby Zoom Phloom log ride. The ride is a stylized space flight to a fantastical moon, filtered through a 1900s Victorian Melies mindset. It uses Intamin’s suspended model (a cheaper, higher-capacity answer to Peter Pan’s Flight) as found on Sesame Street Spaghetti Space Chace. We have an equivalent budget of $25 million.

Drop the Dip: A Gravity Group junior wood coaster in the vein of Roar-O-Saurus or Oscar’s Wacky Taxi. This model appeals to very young children while also pleasing thrill-seekers. It is a compact ride which replaces Flitzer’s already-vacated spot and the nearby Doo Wopper spot. (The Doo Wopper wild mouse coaster relocates.) Theming and appearance come from Luna’s historic Drop the Dip wooden coaster, the first to feature lap bars. Budget: $5 million.

Noteworthy decorative changes to the pier include: Zoom Phloom takes on design inspirations from Luna Park’s Shoot the Chutes. The “Under the Boardwalk” dark ride scenes become an Old Mill “Tunnel of Love” presented with modern tongue-in-cheek humor.

​

The iconic KONG flying scooters tower is redressed after Luna Park’s central iconic tower. The Kong figure on the tower’s top becomes a limited-motion animatronic, maintaining that cheeky King Kong allusion which is Wildwood’s mascot.

 

[D Hulk]

DREAM PIER
(formerly Mariner’s Pier)​

Mariner’s Pier receives a Dreamland retheme. Aesthetically this means an elegant neo-classical Beaux Arts cityscape akin to Chicago’s 1893 World’s Columbian Exposition, the same source of Dreamland’s inspiration. Finely-sculpted facades painted all in white compare to Luna Pier’s garish chaos. Dancing fountains in faux marble complete the tasteful look.

Electric Tower: Replacing the Tea Cups in the pier’s central location is an iconic clock tower, complete with a steeple covered in Romanesque gargoyles. Within is a wholly enclosed drop tower ride with extensive storytelling. Story inspiration comes from Chicago’s infamous H. H. Holmes, whose “Murder Castle” skyscraper contained many deadly traps…including the Space Shot ride which is about to launch guests into the clock tower’s innards. Budget: $10 million.

As the boardwalk’s centrally-located pier, Dream Pier already possesses many of the best attractions at Morey’s. For that reason, it needs no additional headliners. Extra funds are mostly focused on adding a Victorian patina to existing headliners.

The Giant Wheel, so beautiful at night with its neon light package, takes on the glittering spectacle of Chicago’s original Ferris Wheel.

The Sea Serpent boomerang coaster receives an intentionally fake-looking “mountain” structure akin to Coney’s Pike’s Peak or Great Divide or Mountain Torrents…the great many fake chicken wire mountains of days’ past.

The Raging Waters water park at the pier’s furthest point is rebranded as Neptune’s Kingdom. This sub-park trades out its light pirate theming for an Atlantean look, complete with mermaid cast members and grand statuary, which nicely compliments the pier’s Neoclassical design.