TEA Global Attendance Index is out

[HauntedPirate]

Are people remembering that these are numbers for 2024, not 2025?

 

[Comped]

Uni being down by that much, especially Hollywood, should be concerning for them. The fact that USJ and Beijing have more attendance than their domestic parks, and are effectively holding up them (and Singapore too), should be a big red flag for leadership stateside, but who knows if it will since Epic will likely do well in the next report?

 

[monothingie]

But.. but... Disney is supposed to be EMPTY???

Yeah down 15% from peak and with stagnant growth.

Cope Harder.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But.. but... Disney is supposed to be EMPTY???

No one…ever…said it was empty

RIF

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah down 15% from peak and with stagnant growth.

Cope Harder.

The dust apparently masks the concept that if you don’t gain as your industry does…you are not “growing”

You’re actually falling behind.

They’d be really “non-magical” if they knew what the books were actually doing.

A $700 million ish annual injection of Line skips with no overhead covers a lot of warts and puts a patch on the hole in the hull

…it’s made of duct tape and chewing gum…but Bob gets to have the lido deck on his yacht resurfaced nonetheless

 

[DisneyHead123]

My only quandary here is that there doesn’t seem to be a year since 2020 that reflects the “revenge travel” crowds. Maybe those were concentrated within a few months, but 2022 felt oppressively crowded. Maybe it was because some things were still closed… if someone asked me to guess, I would have guessed that crowds soared to unusual highs in 2022-ish and then tapered off somewhat by 2024.

From here I think it will be interesting to see what happens. The economy feels like it’s on the brink but honestly, the economy has felt like it was on the brink for the past decade. Even before Covid, the market was soaring in ways that I thought were unsustainable at the time - perhaps I’m just getting old and that kind of growth is the new normal though. So I’m 50/50 on how that will go. Maybe there’s a crash, or maybe we’re entering the economics of some kind of post scarcity era. Economics is not my thing so I won’t hazard a guess outside of the broadest possible trends.

The hunger for “experiences” continues to grow and I predict that over the next decade we’ll see a lot of small tourist destinations outside of Disney pop up, making the whole Orlando area even more of a vacation destination. I also think Universal will find its footing more over the next decade. Their offerings still skew male and young adult, to my mind, but they could turn that around with a Wicked land and more rides for littles.

Overall I think it’s a good environment for fans right now. Disney is doing well enough to have money to spend, but not so well that they’re in an “F- it, we’re the phone company” mindset (which they seemed to be post Covid, another reason I’m surprised there wasn’t actually a huge crowd surge then.)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My only quandary here is that there doesn’t seem to be a year since 2020 that reflects the “revenge travel” crowds. Maybe those were concentrated within a few months, but 2022 felt oppressively crowded. Maybe it was because some things were still closed… if someone asked me to guess, I would have guessed that crowds soared to unusual highs in 2022-ish and then tapered off somewhat by 2024.

From here I think it will be interesting to see what happens. The economy feels like it’s on the brink but honestly, the economy has felt like it was on the brink for the past decade. Even before Covid, the market was soaring in ways that I thought were unsustainable at the time - perhaps I’m just getting old and that kind of growth is the new normal though. So I’m 50/50 on how that will go. Maybe there’s a crash, or maybe we’re entering the economics of some kind of post scarcity era. Economics is not my thing so I won’t hazard a guess outside of the broadest possible trends.

The hunger for “experiences” continues to grow and I predict that over the next decade we’ll see a lot of small tourist destinations outside of Disney pop up, making the whole Orlando area even more of a vacation destination. I also think Universal will find its footing more over the next decade. Their offerings still skew male and young adult, to my mind, but they could turn that around with a Wicked land and more rides for littles.

Overall I think it’s a good environment for fans right now. Disney is doing well enough to have money to spend, but not so well that they’re in an “F- it, we’re the phone company” mindset (which they seemed to be post Covid, another reason I’m surprised there wasn’t actually a huge crowd surge then.)

Yeah I agree here…

The “revenge travel” ended in 2022…what’s flattened it since is that they have been badly managed

They are driving former and potential customers away with hubris on the pricing and some really bad economic concepts that aren’t going the way they want them
Too

 

[Chi84]

No one…ever…said it was empty

RIF

Use the search engine. It’s said all the time. I could quote them but that can be a sensitive issue.

 

[MR.Dis]

An increase is an increase--rather have the slight Disney increase than the Universal decrease--important these numbers represent 2024 not the current 2025 attendance. The least surprising numbers to me are the EPCOT numbers. EPCOT has 2 very popular festivals--Flower and Garden, Food and Wine. The crowds around the countries during these festivals is crazy big. My wife is big on gardening and the Flower and Garden brings out just about every person in the country with a green thumb (yeah I know a gross exaggeration). Just about every Disney person who enjoys an adult beverage shows up for the Food and Wine--made the mistake of going last year the first day of the festival and had a very hard time finding a path to move around. This is unique as it is not about rides, yet the crowds are massive.

 

[Andrew25]

Have either of you two been in a park?

Yes... lucky to visit WDW/UOR on a weekly basis.

The reported downturn in theme park attendance is highly exaggerated here and on social media. Let me clear, I don't like a lot of the changes over the years... but the parks are certainly not empty at all.

Epcot has proven a major success these last few years (despite that horrendous hub project, IMO). Remy, Frozen and GOTG have given the park a tremendous (yet questionable) refresh. We hardcore Epcot 80s fans may not like it, but the general public does.

The parks, even on the slowest days, are busier than ever.


Don't get me wrong, there's a downturn... but the parks are not deserted by any means. I don't agree with recent pricing strategies and the decline in quality... but people are showing up. They might be skipping out on table service and premium experiences, but they're still at the parks clogging up pathways and queues.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

An increase is an increase--rather have the slight Disney increase than the Universal decrease--important these numbers represent 2024 not the current 2025 attendance. The least surprising numbers to me are the EPCOT numbers. EPCOT has 2 very popular festivals--Flower and Garden, Food and Wine. The crowds around the countries during these festivals is crazy big. My wife is big on gardening and the Flower and Garden brings out just about every person in the country with a green thumb (yeah I know a gross exaggeration). Just about every Disney person who enjoys an adult beverage shows up for the Food and Wine--made the mistake of going last year the first day of the festival and had a very hard time finding a path to move around. This is unique as it is not about rides, yet the crowds are massive.

An increase from when?

Connected the dots here

 

[monothingie]

[/QUOTE]

An increase is an increase--rather have the slight Disney increase than the Universal decrease--important these numbers represent 2024 not the current 2025 attendance. The least surprising numbers to me are the EPCOT numbers. EPCOT has 2 very popular festivals--Flower and Garden, Food and Wine. The crowds around the countries during these festivals is crazy big. My wife is big on gardening and the Flower and Garden brings out just about every person in the country with a green thumb (yeah I know a gross exaggeration). Just about every Disney person who enjoys an adult beverage shows up for the Food and Wine--made the mistake of going last year the first day of the festival and had a very hard time finding a path to move around. This is unique as it is not about rides, yet the crowds are massive.

Disney has supposedly pumped billions into the parks since 2019, and a fraction of a percent increase while still being 15% off your peak is not the result they want and where they want to be. (And this was 2024 before all the new construction walls went up). Please also don't blame the virus, that has been a non-factor for 3 years already.

 

[LSLS]

Yes... lucky to visit WDW/UOR on a weekly basis.

The reported downturn in theme park attendance is highly exaggerated here and on social media. Let me clear, I don't like a lot of the changes over the years... but the parks are certainly not empty at all.

Epcot has proven a major success these last few years (despite that horrendous hub project, IMO). Remy, Frozen and GOTG have given the park a tremendous (yet questionable) refresh. We hardcore Epcot 80s fans may not like it, but the general public does.

The parks, even on the slowest days, are busier than ever.


Don't get me wrong, there's a downturn... but the parks are not deserted by any means. I don't agree with recent pricing strategies and the decline in quality... but people are showing up. They might be skipping out on table service and premium experiences, but they're still at the parks clogging up pathways and queues.

See that's the issue I see. They AREN'T busier than ever. Just look at the table from page 1, they are down roughly 17% from their peak. The question you should be asking is why does it FEEL busier than ever even when it's not. No they aren't empty aside from that summer 3ish years ago where all this talk of it being empty really started, but it's not at the peak either.

 

[JD80]

No one wants 2019 peak crowds. I think people just don't remember how it was.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No one wants 2019 peak crowds. I think people just don't remember how it was.

There is a selection of people (with many silent backers) who want way more than that level:

Disney - Leadership, History, Corporate Social Responsibility

The Walt Disney Company, together with its subsidiaries and affiliates, is a leading diversified international family entertainment and media enterprise.

thewaltdisneycompany.com

 

[Andrew C]

but who knows if it will since Epic will likely do well in the next report?

Problem for them (or blessing depending on how they react) is that 2025 is generally a down year in tourism. If Epic opened next year or even in 2024, I suspect the impact would have been greater than opening in 2025. I am sure there will still be a significant benefit, but not as significant as it could have been if not for this correction period.

 

[Stripes]

Yeah down 15% from peak and with stagnant growth.

Cope Harder.

There is a selection of people (with many silent backers) who want way more than that level:

Disney - Leadership, History, Corporate Social Responsibility

The Walt Disney Company, together with its subsidiaries and affiliates, is a leading diversified international family entertainment and media enterprise.

thewaltdisneycompany.com

Bob Iger specifically stated that the company’s strategy was to increase prices in order to decrease attendance and improve guest satisfaction. As of FY 2024, Experiences operating income increased 37% over 2019 (peak attendance). Disney’s primary competitor grew their operating income by just 20% over the same time period. As we speak, Disney is building capacity expanding attractions that will drive attendance without harming guest satisfaction.

“One of the things that we had to do was we had to improve the guest experience by reducing crowding. It’s tempting to let more and more people in, but if the guest satisfaction levels are going down because of crowding then that doesn’t work. We have to figure out how we reduce crowding but maintain our profitability. And we did that well.” - Bob Iger

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Problem for them (or blessing depending on how they react) is that 2025 is generally a down year in tourism. If Epic opened next year or even in 2024, I suspect the impact would have been greater than opening in 2025. I am sure there will still be a significant benefit, but not as significant as it could have been if not for this correction period.

It really doesn’t seem like it’s going that fantastic…just perception

The people saying that Orlando is doing great are almost exclusively working for visit.orlando.com, pr agents of the companies that run the town…or those that make (or are trying in vain to) make their living off commenting on travel.

Lots of money is being spent across the board…is anywhere in Orlando getting the chunk they really should when you take an overhead view?

 

[monothingie]

Bob Iger specifically stated that the company’s strategy was to increase prices in order to decrease attendance and improve guest satisfaction. As of FY 2024, Experiences operating income increased 37% over 2019 (peak attendance). Disney’s primary competitor grew their operating income by just 20% over the same time period. As we speak, Disney is building capacity expanding attractions that will drive attendance without harming guest satisfaction.

“One of the things that we had to do was we had to improve the guest experience by reducing crowding. It’s tempting to let more and more people in, but if the guest satisfaction levels are going down because of crowding then that doesn’t work. We have to figure out how we reduce crowding but maintain our profitability. And we did that well.” - Bob Iger

“In our zeal to grow profits, we may have been a little bit too aggressive about some of our pricing,” Iger said. “I think there’s a way to continue to grow that business, but be smarter about how we price so that we maintain that brand value of accessibility.” - Bob Iger

Will the real Bob Iger please stand up.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Bob Iger specifically stated that the company’s strategy was to increase prices in order to decrease attendance and improve guest satisfaction. As of FY 2024, Experiences operating income increased 37% over 2019 (peak attendance). Disney’s primary competitor grew their operating income by just 20% over the same time period. As we speak, Disney is building capacity expanding attractions that will drive attendance without harming guest satisfaction.

“One of the things that we had to do was we had to improve the guest experience by reducing crowding. It’s tempting to let more and more people in, but if the guest satisfaction levels are going down because of crowding then that doesn’t work. We have to figure out how we reduce crowding but maintain our profitability. And we did that well.” - Bob Iger

“In our zeal to grow profits, we may have been a little bit too aggressive about some of our pricing,” Iger said. “I think there’s a way to continue to grow that business, but be smarter about how we price so that we maintain that brand value of accessibility.” - Bob Iger

Will the real Bob Iger please stand up.

I’m getting some mixed messages here….