TDA Changes Affecting WDW?

[TP2000]

...because his sources are correct 99% of the time.

Just the same, he complains too much for my personal taste, and his WDW bashing borders on insanity (even though he is correct about Phil and Meg).

That's an interesting statement. So you dislike the criticism Al Lutz occasionally lobs at WDW in a compare/contrast of Magic Kingdom to Disneyland, and yet you agree with Al Lutz that his criticism of Phil Holmes and Meg Crofton is correct?

If you agree that Phil Holmes as the senior executive in charge of Magic Kingdom, and Meg Crofton as the senior executive in charge of the entire WDW property are not handling things correctly, then what exactly do you disagree with Al Lutz about? It would seem that if your assesment of those top two execs is the same as the assesment Al Lutz has made on occasion, then there isn't much left to quibble about except minor details or semantics.

Al Lutz only occasionally mentions WDW in his big Disneyland updates, and it's almost as an afterthought really. This last time he mentioned that Phil and some other VP's came out again to visit Disneyland for several days to get an update on how Disneyland is managing its similar Magic Kingdom style park.

I just hope Phil and the gang head out west again in October. Then they can ride Haunted Mansion Holiday and see the HUGE difference in quality between Parkwide Halloween decorations. And if Al Lutz happens to mention that just such an October visit takes place, and Al runs down the Phil Holmes itinerary and meeting objectives like he has done in past updates, then what's to be offended about? That Al has the inside scoop on senior executive business travel and itineraries?

 

[TP2000]

When LUTZ or anyone else has the ability to spend HOURS creating a piece that gently knocks Disney, I still have to ask WHY. Who does he work for and WHY is he doing this? What is his financial reason for spending so much time on this? I am curious and I want to know.:wave:

That's like asking why a housewife in Wisconsin spends 20 hours per week and thousands of dollars per year lovingly creating scrapbooks of every soccer practice and school activity her child takes part in? Or why a man in North Carolina would spend thousands of hours and thousands of dollars building a small wooden fishing boat to use in his retirement when it would have been cheaper and faster to just order an aluminum Boston Whaler out of a catalog?

It's a hobby, and it brings him satisfaction and enjoyment. Heck, look at all of the time and energy and money that goes into all of the message board posts here. Why are people doing it? We lived for thousands of years without message boards like this, so why are we all here now? How many millions of dollars in Internet connection fees and hardware purchases have been "wasted" to bring this message board into existence? Why am I here? Why are you here Boomerbilia?

 

[Boomerbilia]

That's an interesting statement. So you dislike the criticism Al Lutz occasionally lobs at WDW in a compare/contrast of Magic Kingdom to Disneyland, and yet you agree with Al Lutz that his criticism of Phil Holmes and Meg Crofton is correct?

If you agree that Phil Holmes as the senior executive in charge of Magic Kingdom, and Meg Crofton as the senior executive in charge of the entire WDW property are not handling things correctly, then what exactly do you disagree with Al Lutz about? It would seem that if your assesment of those top two execs is the same as the assesment Al Lutz has made on occasion, then there isn't much left to quibble about except minor details or semantics.

Al Lutz only occasionally mentions WDW in his big Disneyland updates, and it's almost as an afterthought really. This last time he mentioned that Phil and some other VP's came out again to visit Disneyland for several days to get an update on how Disneyland is managing its similar Magic Kingdom style park.

I just hope Phil and the gang head out west again in October. Then they can ride Haunted Mansion Holiday and see the HUGE difference in quality between Parkwide Halloween decorations. And if Al Lutz happens to mention that just such an October visit takes place, and Al runs down the Phil Holmes itinerary and meeting objectives like he has done in past updates, then what's to be offended about? That Al has the inside scoop on senior executive business travel and itineraries?

I am a free-thinker. I don't agree or disagree with anyone's opinions about people. I only go on what I see in the parks.

Not one person has the power in themselves to make changes in the parks. There are committees, boards, meetings and decisions. Not one person has the power to control anything in Disney.

Criticism of one person is wrong. And trying to make one person a scapegoat for what is wrong or what may go wrong is wrong also.

 

[Boomerbilia]

That's like asking why a housewife in Wisconsin spends 20 hours per week and thousands of dollars per year lovingly creating scrapbooks of every soccer practice and school activity her child takes part in? Or why a man in North Carolina would spend thousands of hours and thousands of dollars building a small wooden fishing boat to use in his retirement when it would have been cheaper and faster to just order an aluminum Boston Whaler out of a catalog?

It's a hobby, and it brings him satisfaction and enjoyment. Heck, look at all of the time and energy and money that goes into all of the message board posts here. Why are people doing it? We lived for thousands of years without message boards like this, so why are we all here now? How many millions of dollars in Internet connection fees and hardware purchases have been "wasted" to bring this message board into existence? Why am I here? Why are you here Boomerbilia?

That's a good question. Why ARE we here?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Ive just sussed why they took the wand down, there was no room for it and some of the egos around here. Perhaps they will fit a urinal on the side near the top to be used in future ing contests.

 

[Lee]

Not one person has the power in themselves to make changes in the parks. There are committees, boards, meetings and decisions. Not one person has the power to control anything in Disney.

While on the surface true, that comment does not tell the whole story.
One person CAN make a difference...if they choose to.

Let's look at an example.
Say (purely hypothetically :lookaroun) that there were two different PotC concepts pitched for the MK. One was just the addition of the Sparrow AAs, the new ending, Davy Jones....what we ended up getting. The other included all of that plus lighting and sound upgrades, and even a new ending that took you up the upramp and into a whole new show scene.
Sure the second concept would cost quite a bit more, but would have (in my eyes) been worth it.

Enter a certain VP of the park.
Did he say "You know what. Sure, it'll cost more, but the bigger refurb will really wow the guests and prove again that Disney knows how to do it right? I DO remember the Keys to the Kingdom! SHOW comes before EFFICIENCY! I'm gonna go to bat for my park and do my best to push this superior concept through!"

Nope.

Try something more like, "You know, the ride is already popular. Why spend the extra money on it when people will ride it anyway? Let's just do as little as we can get away with and save the money. It'll be good enough."

I just hope Phil and the gang head out west again in October.

Honestly, I don't think it will matter. They've been on the new Space Mtn., and have yet to show any real intention to improve MKs on that level. They have ridden the upgraded Pirates without acknowledging that their own refurb fell way short.

 

[Boomerbilia]

While on the surface true, that comment does not tell the whole story.
One person CAN make a difference...if they choose to.

Let's look at an example.
Say (purely hypothetically :lookaroun) that there were two different PotC concepts pitched for the MK. One was just the addition of the Sparrow AAs, the new ending, Davy Jones....what we ended up getting. The other included all of that plus lighting and sound upgrades, and even a new ending that took you up the upramp and into a whole new show scene.
Sure the second concept would cost quite a bit more, but would have (in my eyes) been worth it.

Enter a certain VP of the park.
Did he say "You know what. Sure, it'll cost more, but the bigger refurb will really wow the guests and prove again that Disney knows how to do it right? I DO remember the Keys to the Kingdom! SHOW comes before EFFICIENCY! I'm gonna go to bat for my park and do my best to push this superior concept through!"

Nope.

Try something more like, "You know, the ride is already popular. Why spend the extra money on it when people will ride it anyway? Let's just do as little as we can get away with and save the money. It'll be good enough."


Honestly, I don't think it will matter. They've been on the new Space Mtn., and have yet to show any real intention to improve MKs on that level. They have ridden the upgraded Pirates without acknowledging that their own refurb fell way short.

You're absolutely right.

One person can make a difference in an election. One person can decide who the next President of the United States is going to be.

However, that thinking is very linear. In a case dealing with time, space and cost, one person over a period of time does not have the final say nor control to make a multi-million dollar decision. Disney does not work that way.

Decisions are made by committees, in meetings and by testing and marketing.

In terms of the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction, by the time one ride is completed and overhauled, concepts and technology have already made that changed ride old. Just looking at the Disney parks in the U.S. and comparing them to the same rides in Paris, Tokyo and I'm sure Hong Kong, you would agree that the rides in Paris and Tokyo are much superior to the same rides in the U.S.

Therefore, when a ride gets changed in one park, by the time they get around to changing it in another park, it has to be better because concepts, technology and marketing will direct changes.

As one who has been to DL, WDW, TDL and DLP, I can see the differences.

So, let's not knock one park over the other. Every park is uniquely wonderful.

Enjoy the changes, enjoy the improvements and travel to the other parks and make your own comparisons.

Being a know-it-all and living in California don't apply your standards based upon DL to the other Disney parks in the world. DL might be the original, but, IMO, I am sorry to say DL is not the best Disney park in the world.

 

[Lee]

However, that thinking is very linear. In a case dealing with time, space and cost, one person over a period of time does not have the final say nor control to make a multi-million dollar decision. Disney does not work that way.
Decisions are made by committees, in meetings and by testing and marketing.

That is also my point. One person doesn't make the decisions, but one person can go to bat for a cause, can stand up for what is right. And it pains me to think that a committee met and decided that doing "just enough" was the best way to go, or that there was testing that said that guests would not prefer a better attraction.

In terms of the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction, by the time one ride is completed and overhauled, concepts and technology have already made that changed ride old. Just looking at the Disney parks in the U.S. and comparing them to the same rides in Paris, Tokyo and I'm sure Hong Kong, you would agree that the rides in Paris and Tokyo are much superior to the same rides in the U.S.

You're missing the point here. I'm not talking about rides built 10 or 15 years apart, I'm talking about one ride being refurbed and the lesser route being taken.

But ok, let's compare two rides being refurbed at the same time. At one park, they go the extra mile to improve the attraction. At the other, not only do they decide against a truly impressive upgrade to the attraction, they opt for doing "just enough."
To my mind there is no defense for that.
Show over efficiency must prevail.
Else you wind up with a poorly maintained Space Mountain, a PotC with 30 year old sound and lighting, and a Mansion with a falling-apart ride system and alarming termite damage.

So, let's not knock one park over the other. Every park is uniquely wonderful.

I didn't, and I agree.

IMO, I am sorry to say DL is not the best Disney park in the world.

Neither is Magic Kingdom....IMO.

 

[TP2000]

Honestly, I don't think it will matter. They've been on the new Space Mtn., and have yet to show any real intention to improve MKs on that level. They have ridden the upgraded Pirates without acknowledging that their own refurb fell way short.

That's too bad. Just upgrading the Magic Kingdom's Halloween decorations to the Disneyland standard would be a start, let alone the plans for the Space Mountain rehab.

http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al071707b.htm Judging by the Park differences shown in that Miceage link, there's a Junior High School cafeteria somewhere in central Florida that is missing their Halloween decorations.

 

[tirian]

That's an interesting statement. So you dislike the criticism Al Lutz occasionally lobs at WDW in a compare/contrast of Magic Kingdom to Disneyland, and yet you agree with Al Lutz that his criticism of Phil Holmes and Meg Crofton is correct?

If you agree that Phil Holmes as the senior executive in charge of Magic Kingdom, and Meg Crofton as the senior executive in charge of the entire WDW property are not handling things correctly, then what exactly do you disagree with Al Lutz about? It would seem that if your assesment of those top two execs is the same as the assesment Al Lutz has made on occasion, then there isn't much left to quibble about except minor details or semantics.

This statement is so illogical that I'm not bothering to reply directly.

Al thinks that Phil is uninterested and Meg has not been given enough power. I agree with both statements, and so do many of the regular posters on these boards. That has nothing to do with the parks argument (DL vs MK).

 

[ToTBellHop]

This statement is so illogical that I'm not bothering to reply directly.

Al thinks that Phil is uninterested and Meg has not been given enough power. I agree with both statements, and so do many of the regular posters on these boards. That has nothing to do with the parks argument (DL vs MK).

it would be more accurate to say that if you dislike how management is currently running things, it would be safe to assume that you think where WDW is headed in the near future is not as exciting as where DL is headed, which is more than likely true. $1 billion + to the DLR will spell lots of (hopefully great) changes coming soon.

I wish Phil would just get fired...and Meg is almost like the Minister of Magic in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows...eerrrrrrrhhhmmmmm

 

[TP2000]

Al thinks that Phil is uninterested and Meg has not been given enough power. I agree with both statements, and so do many of the regular posters on these boards. That has nothing to do with the parks argument (DL vs MK).

Ah, okay. Sorry if I read too much into it.

 

[tirian]

Ah, okay. Sorry if I read too much into it.

:wave: