Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
Maybe TDO is going to replace the chef with an AA of Jason Segel. :ROFLOL:
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Sweedish Chef disappeared from Muppet Vision 3D
- Thread starter baloofigment14
- Start date
WeLoveTheMouse
New Member
Yet somehow, against all odds, we went to WDW for almost two weeks and enjoyed all these attractions. Go figure.
Because after all, your heightened insight into these problems are much greater than we mere mortals....:lookaroun
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
While his comments are rather preachy, he is 100% correct. Standards lowered once again, and defenders once again try to make excuses for this problem. It is a bad show when major elements of attractions are not working, let alone for indeterminable amounts of time (months, years, maybe never getting repaired).
It's kind of sad how some people take it so personally when a critic notices valid flaws with an experience. A reasonable and balanced person should be able to enjoy themselves and not have to jump down the throats of anyone who offers up criticism. It's a sign of being overly self conscious when you can't enjoy the place without stamping on any signs of criticism.
This is directed at anyone in particular- Enjoy yourself at WDW. I still do, though i'm allowed criticism of the place if i wish. But don't pretend like you can just make excuses for every standard dropped. You can't defend that or attack others for seeing it, but you can ignore it if you personally don't mind it (it's the mature way of dealing with it). And you shouldn't feel the need to attack people if you still enjoy the place. Attacking people for noticing things like this isn't going to change anything, it will however put you in a position of looking very immature and unhealthily self conscious. Obviously people will still enjoy the place, maybe they always will. But if you choose to submit yourself to contributing to such an argument, pose this question to yourself- how much are you willing to accept being broken and degraded before it interferes with your experience? Make that point in your mind and then decide whether you think it's ok for the experience to be degraded bit by bit gradually. Everyone has a limit, whether it be chipped paint, broken animatronics, rude cast members, shuttered rides, people getting hurt on rides due to lack of proper management, etc.
That's just my statement on the matter. I still love WDW for now, though i do have my limits (i've set them). I'm also not attacking anyone here for how they view the place, so i'd suggest you think twice before trying to attack my own views.
COProgressFan
Well-Known Member
While his comments are rather preachy, he is 100% correct. Standards lowered once again, and defenders once again try to make excuses for this problem. It is a bad show when major elements of attractions are not working, let alone for indeterminable amounts of time (months, years, maybe never getting repaired).
It's kind of sad how some people take it so personally when a critic notices valid flaws with an experience. A reasonable and balanced person should be able to enjoy themselves and not have to jump down the throats of anyone who offers up criticism. It's a sign of being overly self conscious when you can't enjoy the place without stamping on any signs of criticism.
This is directed at anyone in particular- Enjoy yourself at WDW. I still do, though i'm allowed criticism of the place if i wish. But don't pretend like you can just make excuses for every standard dropped. You can't defend that or attack others for seeing it, but you can ignore it if you personally don't mind it (it's the mature way of dealing with it). And you shouldn't feel the need to attack people if you still enjoy the place. Attacking people for noticing things like this isn't going to change anything, it will however put you in a position of looking very immature and unhealthily self conscious. Obviously people will still enjoy the place, maybe they always will. But if you choose to submit yourself to contributing to such an argument, pose this question to yourself- how much are you willing to accept being broken and degraded before it interferes with your experience? Make that point in your mind and then decide whether you think it's ok for the experience to be degraded bit by bit gradually. Everyone has a limit, whether it be chipped paint, broken animatronics, rude cast members, shuttered rides, people getting hurt on rides due to lack of proper management, etc.
That's just my statement on the matter. I still love WDW for now, though i do have my limits (i've set them). I'm also not attacking anyone here for how they view the place, so i'd suggest you think twice before trying to attack my own views.
Well said !
JustInTime
Well-Known Member
DABIGCHEEZ
Well-Known Member
Just to add to the list of animatronics needing repair... 3 or 4 chickens are dead on the boat in the finale of Splash Mountain... ZIP-A-DEE-DO-DAH!!!!!
jakeman
Well-Known Member
Nah, it's sadder that people complain about a place while planning their next vacation there.It's kind of sad how some people take it so personally when a critic notices valid flaws with an experience. A reasonable and balanced person should be able to enjoy themselves and not have to jump down the throats of anyone who offers up criticism. It's a sign of being overly self conscious when you can't enjoy the place without stamping on any signs of criticism.
I had a long post type out, but I'm feeling plucky so I'll just point out that based on alphac2005 posting history (only 33 post so it didn't take long to look at the summaries) he/she has taken at least two trips to WDW since 2008.
If things are as bad as his hyperbolic statement contends, why does he/she go back?
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Because they are evil evil liars who's only purpose is to come here and complain because they are just miserable and want to complain for fun, not because they see anything valid going on in a place they invest a great deal of time and money visiting.
Everyone who doesn't think everything is all roses and kisses is just a trouble maker, every thread on this forum should be happy sweetness and light and we should make threads about...wait, this board would die pretty quickly, wouldn't it?
It's the Internet. We are gathering to talk about a product we are a fan of. The entire Internet, no matter if you are talking about theme parks, video games movies, knitting patterns, or adult toys - is going to be exactly the same thing, people have the same dang arguments, the same same same.
I do agree with what the person everyone is picking on (for being truthful) said - it's so funny (just like on all those other types of boards) when people get all defensive and like you are attacking them if you have an issue with a product a company is providing. If you don't have an issue, great, but the amount of people around here acting like anyone who has a valid issue or something to point out that happens to be a negative people just bring out the white wash and "oooh must be a hater!" mentality.
If you think about it, complaining about complaining is worse than just letting the poor sap complain, if they are just simply a "hater" anyway.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
Your post though is just as filled with hyperbole as the poster you are claiming "everyone" is picking on.
Which if you look at that two people who responded to him, it wasn't his message that was the issue it was the tone that issue was taken with.
You know what's funny about the folks that are complaining in this thread, only two responses directly saying this was no big deal in this whole thread (one of which came a day after the issue was noted) and you would think that half the board was against you trying to shut you down.
So perhaps it isn't so much the complaining, but the victimization attitude that is trotted out so quickly if other people don't tow the line that Disney is faltering.
Sure it's okay to have a different opinion that isn't one of "Disney sucks now", as long as you don't mind being called an apologist, or Kool-Aid drinker, or pixie dust snorter. That isn't a discussion. That's an elementary schoolyard name calling fight.
It's one animatronic in a B to C level attraction. Sure it's an issue and should be taken care of as soon as possible, but unprovoked alphac2005 started calling names to anyone who dare not think this is the worst thing ever.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Jakeman, you seem very defensive and self conscious about the entire issue here. The original comment alphac2005 was making was directed towards people who support Disney in their decision to not repair broken parts of attractions (people who are okay with anything Disney does, no matter how negative, even if it only hurts them as consumers). Alphac2005 named no names, you yourself assumed responsibility for whatever you think he was calling you. He also never said it's the worst thing to ever happen to the place. It sounds like he's upset over it being part of the more widespread problem with dropping standards. And i happen to heartily agree with that sentiment, it is disgraceful.
From your last post, you clearly acknowledge this particular broken part of an attraction as an issue and think it should be fixed ASAP (along with any others). So i don't know why you're angry. That comment was clearly not meant for people of your belief. It was directed towards a small and rather nutty group of people who have an attachment to Disney so delusional and dogmatic that they attack anyone and everyone who dares to criticize it. It was pretty aggressive, but few people i think actually fit that description. Such a position would not endear many people to them, it's an obsessive and almost psychotic way of thinking to not be able to accept that there are flaws to WDW (along with everything else in the world).
From what you claim to believe, you're definitely not one of them (so i'm assuming you read it wrong). No need to get self defensive over every little negative thing someone says about WDW. You seem to get really self conscious and defensive over a lot of people who happen to have negative things to say about WDW. Perhaps you should take a deep breath, calm down, and reread some of the comments people are making and realize that such posters are not your enemy.
From your last post, you clearly acknowledge this particular broken part of an attraction as an issue and think it should be fixed ASAP (along with any others). So i don't know why you're angry. That comment was clearly not meant for people of your belief. It was directed towards a small and rather nutty group of people who have an attachment to Disney so delusional and dogmatic that they attack anyone and everyone who dares to criticize it. It was pretty aggressive, but few people i think actually fit that description. Such a position would not endear many people to them, it's an obsessive and almost psychotic way of thinking to not be able to accept that there are flaws to WDW (along with everything else in the world).
From what you claim to believe, you're definitely not one of them (so i'm assuming you read it wrong). No need to get self defensive over every little negative thing someone says about WDW. You seem to get really self conscious and defensive over a lot of people who happen to have negative things to say about WDW. Perhaps you should take a deep breath, calm down, and reread some of the comments people are making and realize that such posters are not your enemy.
alphac2005
Well-Known Member
Name calling? Are you kidding me? Drinking the Kool-Aid, so to speak, is a well coined term phrase that is not name calling. Was there any mention of anyone specifically? No, because there was absolutely no person in mind when even writing what I did.
If you get offended by "drinking the Kool-Aid," then I certainly can't help you. Whether it's a politician or company, at some point, there should be an acknowledgment that maybe some things are askew. When you drink the Kool-Aid, you simply look with nothing, but blinders on and everyone else is a nuisance and wrong.
And, if you want to complain about so-called name calling, then don't attempt to portray what I said blatantly incorrectly. I didn't even allude to this being some worst thing ever event as you stated above, rather that it was systematic of what's been going on.
I'm sorry that it's so offensive and vulgar to point out that many people still are apologists for the major declines in show, cast, and safety at the resort. I'm sorry that some of us are pointing that out. I lived in Orlando for many years over the past decade, visited the parks more times that most people would go to in several lifetimes, and certainly spent at a healthy dose at the properties. I've known enough people who have worked at the company before and after the changes that reduced safety, operations, and maintenance to realize that there really is an issue and it isn't a coincidence why so many episodes of safety have cropped up in recent years.
It doesn't mean that I don't throughly enjoy their product, but there reaches a tipping point.
All too many times, it's like being involved with partisan political types on this board. You are either with us or against us and if I don't agree with you, then you're wrong, period.
alphac2005
Well-Known Member
Merlin, well said. I've expanded on his misguided response to my post in a reply.
boufa
Well-Known Member
Funny, that is exactly how I took your post... strange.
I can list at least 10 maintenance things that need to be done at my house. So don't visit (even if I charge you $95 a day!)
This issue is not new. No matter how much we wish it would be, there is a very easy psychological reason that we think it is getting worse. (I'm serious)
- Perception is reality. The first time you go to Disney, you went and enjoyed it... that created the baseline that no matter what you do, all other trips are based on that. Changes to that baseline tend to be looked at in a negative way.
- Things were broken and not right when you went for the first time, but your lack of knowlede about them allowed you to more easily accept them as correct, thus adding the perception that at your baseline it was better than it is now.
- Knowledge skews even your later trips. If something so small as the chickens not working on Splash. Lets say they are broken for 9 months... that would be perceived as an unacceptable time period for them to be broken... now lets say you visit once a year. You might not have ever seen them broken. However all of the chatter about it on this website (and others) have added them to your lists of issues. Without this knowledge you would have never known, and thus your perception of the problems would not be as vivid.
- You might notice 2 or 3 missing, broken things on a trip. I might notice a couple, then we all post about them and we now know about everything, even the things we failed to see ourselves. We are much more attuned to the problems, thus making them look greater than they did when we were not so connected.
The perfect example is the Yeti. In May 2008 I rode the EE. I swear the Yeti was working. I will go to my grave thinking that it was. Now reading here I see that it most likely was not. I was satisfied at the time, I enjoyed the ride. I had not seen the documents, the test video, the interviews, the other stuff that would have led to think that the experience should (or could) have been anything different. That created my baseline... based on a mis-perception. 99.5% of the people who ride EE don't even know that Yeti is not functioning as designed. When I ride EE again, now I will know what it was, could be, and I might be disappointed. Has I not been so focused on Disney and these types of discussions, I would have never known, and the experience would have been untarnished and just I remembered it.
All of the focus on the relatively few negatives and issues at the parks magnifies the importance of the negatives in our minds and in our perceptions.
Thats my $0.05 (adjusted for inflation, and everything is more expensive at Disney)... have a nice day.
alphac2005
Well-Known Member
In my case, your examples just don't work. When I was living in Central Florida, I visited the parks a few days a week after work and I could probably come up with a spreadsheet of problems that existed on a weekly basis. However, I knew the difference between what would be reasonable and unreasonable expectations would be in terms of maintenance.
My view of the property isn't routed in some rose colored euphoria. Contrary to some that I've read, a few years back, there was a clear pickup in ongoing show quality from animatronics to paint and function about three to four years ago with a rapid decline ever since.
On our last trip with casual visitors, a few things would be an understatement as to what wasn't functioning. From countless audio animatronics not working in Splash Mountain to a virtually inaudible Country Bears characters just in Frontierland alone. The casual visitor point blank couldn't believe how bad the quality was and even they saw what were the black tarps in Big Thunder Mountain. It's naive to think that the casual fan doesn't see this any longer and for the money our friends spend, they didn't see how what Disney was doing was much of any better quality than Six Flags today considering the price premium because their expectations of visiting Disney in the past were of high quality, the best quality, but they weren't nitpicking over paint chips or some cloudy, unwashed windows on property.
It's one thing for an animatronic to have an issue and needs to be fixed, but for countless animatronics in one attraction to be simply broken, or when you child asks you why their mouths aren't moving, but they're talking, that's a problem.
Contrary to what you might assume, I don't understand all the complaining about the "Disco Yeti," as it clearly was new technology and they simply can't get it to work. It's mechanics, not poor show quality there. It's not that Disney is being cheap, they just can't the technology right, yet.
It's also the little things like when you take your disabled, wheelchair bound father to the Disney Resort, which will go unnamed, and have spoken to management at the hotel about the need for a room that has it equipped with a handicap shower (which they not only have at the resort, but he had stayed in several times before), also spoken to disability services at WDW, had this documented, followed up on as recent as the day before the trip, and even give specific names of individuals that there will be a properly equipped room, and then when you get there, they don't have any such room available, and an employee calls you a liar that you never spoke to anyone. While it wasn't great that they didn't have what was supposed to be in their system, particularly set aside as the manager told us via telephone, it was the fact that right off the bat, the cast member said we were simply lying. Wow, that's something. It should be noted that the President's office at WDW called and spoke extensively about what happened, apologized and it was not only very respectful, but unexpected and very kind, to say the least.
I'm sorry, but those things didn't used to happen there. It does now. I'm not demanding, I'm low key, I don't nitpick to death the property like many do, but now there are countless blatantly in your face terrible show elements now. And again, as I stated, SAFETY. As I pointed out having lived in Orlando and knowing cast from before an after many of the changes to maintenance, new and ongoing cast training, it's unnerving. That's not some internet blowhard, it's first hand knowledge of how something that was a gold standard a Disney, is no longer. If you notice, most of what happens with regard to incidents at the property aren't so much the physical condition, but rather the lack of proper training.
Unfortunately, over time, problems that would have been solved in an ample amount of time, for good show, no longer were being addressed. You know, the little things like peeling paint, mildew on buildings, they were taken care of promptly. Now it's those issues in addition to actual ride conditions, show elements, etc. I shouldn't have to sit in a theater seat at WDW with duct tape on it, you've got to be kidding me. And, I've done that several times in the past few years. If Disney isn't going to charge a premium to visit their property, can't is be at least conceded that something like that isn't acceptable. And, it's not that the seats had a problem and it was like that for just a day or two, no, rather month after month.
It's the ever lowering of standards and expectations. Disney is doing what the majority of businesses in this country do now, it's protocol. I've been a business owner for many years and I see it with nearly every company we do business with. There does need to be a realization that some of the declines at WDW are far greater than just nitpicking that just a robotic bird isn't moving it's lips properly.
However, whenever someone simply brings this up, it turns into a diatribe that not everything is perfect. Well, some of us aren't claiming that and have reasonable expectations, not of perfection. Just ask a cast member who worked at the MK or Epcot a decade ago and today, it won't take them much of any time to let you know that these are bigger issues than just a few kinks on your trip.
the-reason14
Well-Known Member
Sounds like something that will be fix soon, I hope. And when it is, we can move on to complain about something else all the while continuing to give Disney our money for a declining product.
PeoplemoverTTA
Well-Known Member
Show quality at Muppets on 8/24 was as most have noted: orchestra lift broken, no Swedish Chef, plus, fireworks were frozen "on" the entire show, Waldorf's mouth wasn't working, and the CM left the door backstage open, which was a little distracting. Overall, I was embarrassed at the poor show here...really terrible.
In another random note, I just noticed this trip that Sweetums is on screen but also live on stage during the final scene. Odd that I never noticed that before!
In another random note, I just noticed this trip that Sweetums is on screen but also live on stage during the final scene. Odd that I never noticed that before!
TalkingHead
Well-Known Member
Are you calling Muppetvision a "B to C level attraction"? Dunno if you meant B- to C-ticket, or what, but Muppetvision is clearly a top-flight attraction at MGM (when it is working properly).
hpyhnt 1000
Well-Known Member
That's just awful and completely unacceptable.
I do not think a post has ever been more true.