News Swan and Dolphin Tower Expansion - The Walt Disney World Swan Reserve

Lensman

Lensman

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Does this mean that Las Vegas never Learned from Las Vegas? o_O
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I learn so much from this board! I'll let you know my thoughts after I read the book after it arrives on Sunday!

I'd be interested in having a discussion of the aside of Disney vs Las Vegas resort architecture. Both have a habit of ornamentation to recreate the look, and to a lesser extent the feel, of other locales, within their purposeful constraints.

I'd say I'm more worried now about Disney importing the barely ornamented hotel resort tower from Las Vegas with the Coronado tower, the Riviera tower, and now maybe the Swolphin/Fantasia Golf tower. There seems no hope that it will be a Duck. (no deep meaning in that, just wanted to slip that reference in)
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Lensman said:
I learn so much from this board! I'll let you know my thoughts after I read the book after it arrives on Sunday!

I'd be interested in having a discussion of the aside of Disney vs Las Vegas resort architecture. Both have a habit of ornamentation to recreate the look, and to a lesser extent the feel, of other locales, within their purposeful constraints.

I'd say I'm more worried now about Disney importing the barely ornamented hotel resort tower from Las Vegas with the Coronado tower, the Riviera tower, and now maybe the Swolphin/Fantasia Golf tower. There seems no hope that it will be a Duck. (no deep meaning in that, just wanted to slip that reference in)
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Start a thread after you read it!
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
It’s a little weird how Yacht and Beach Club aren’t seen as the post modernist resorts they are. If anything, BW is the resort out of place on Crescent Lake.
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The Disney-owned hotels are all Robert A.M. Stern projects and could all technically fall under the umbrella of Postmodernism. Crescent Lake is itself an interesting bit of architectural history, showing how the Postmodern movement shifted away from a more traditional (pre-International Style) aesthetic. While still quite young, Stern was prominent in disseminating the early ideas of Postmodernism. He was a key figure behind Five on Five, a rebuke of the book Five Architects that highlighted the work of early 1970s Modernist architects, including Michael Graves. These days a student looking to learn about Postmodern architect will most definitely come across Michael Graves but there is a good chance they will never see the name Robert A.M. Stern.

Maybe what Crescent Lake needs is a Bernard Tschumi hotel to take us on a journey from traditionalist Postmodernism to high Postmodernism to Deconstruction.
 
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Missing20K

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
It’s a little weird how Yacht and Beach Club aren’t seen as the post modernist resorts they are. If anything, BW is the resort out of place on Crescent Lake.
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Maybe not the forum, but I'm interested to hear why you feel they are post-modern architecture? Fun fact about the BW....it was also designed by Robert AM Stern.

lazyboy97o said:
The Disney-owned hotels are all Robert A.M. Stern projects and could all technically fall under the umbrella of Postmodernism. Crescent Lake is itself an interesting bit of architectural history, showing how the Postmodern movement shifted away from a more traditional (pre-International Style) aesthetic. While still quite young, Stern was prominent in disseminating the early ideas of Postmodernism. He was a key figure behind Five on Five, a rebuke of the book Five Architects that highlighted the work of early 1970s Modernist architects, including Michael Graves. These days a student looking to learn about Postmodern architect will most definitely come across Michael Graves but there is a good chance they will never see the name Robert A.M. Stern.

Maybe what Crescent Lake needs is a Bernard Tschumi hotel to take us on a journey from traditionalist Postmodernism to high Postmodernism to Deconstruction.
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What's fun about Stern is his breadth. His early work was certainly more postmodern, but by the time the Crescent Lake area was designed, he was venturing more into Neoclassicism and vernacular designs. I personally feel it's a stretch to call the Crescent Lake hotels postmodern in the "traditional" sense.

Another fun fact about Stern? He was also the designer of the Walt Disney Studios Feature Animation Building (that's definitely more postmodern), the Hotel Cheyenne in Paris, the urban planner for the original masterplan of Celebration, and they must have liked him so much they put him on the Board of Directors for over a decade (92-03). Dude is a boss.
 
Missing20K

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Maybe what Crescent Lake needs is a Bernard Tschumi hotel to take us on a journey from traditionalist Postmodernism to high Postmodernism to Deconstruction.
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Well considering the history, we would end up with a Gehry. I'd take Tschumi or Coop Himmeb(l)au or Koolhaus or even BIG. Just please no Libeskind.
 
fngoofy

fngoofy

Well-Known Member
Missing20K said:
I think he is referring to the Swolphin. But in 1992, Vegas Strip hotels didn't look anything like either (Swolphin being a Post-modern design), the notable exception being the Excalibur opening in 1990, which one might argue is using Post-modernism to play up the Medieval theme (and is god-awful ugly). All the other Vegas-style Strip hotels opened in 1993 or later (Mirage, MGM Grand, Luxor, Bellagio). And other than New York, New York (opened in 1999) I'm not sure what other distinctly Post-modern Vegas Strip hotels there are. So I'm not sure what he is saying either.
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Oh gosh, you are right, I missed it by a mile saying 1992 and not 1993.
Here are some pics, you may find them helpful.

37360068-luxor-hotel.jpg

4f04e84286890.image.jpg

p.s.
Michael Graves is hack.
 
Missing20K

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
fngoofy said:
Oh gosh, you are right, I missed it by a mile saying 1992 and not 1993.
Here are some pics, you may find them helpful.

37360068-luxor-hotel.jpg

4f04e84286890.image.jpg

p.s.
Michael Graves is hack.
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So exhibiting some humor and camp make a building post-modern. Thank you for the lesson.

Michael Graves is dead.

EDIT: @DznyRktekt beat me to it.

EDIT 2: If you are gonna throw out a year to show how postmodern Vegas architecture is, at least use an appropriate year, like say 2000 or 2001, you know, after the Venitian and Paris! and New York New York are all open in addition to the Luxor and MGM Grand (though that isn't a great example of postmodern architecure anyway, lion head entrance included). 1992 (or even 1993) Vegas still did not show much in the way of postmodern architecture. But I suppose this not the place for that discussion.
 
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MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Missing20K said:
So exhibiting some humor and camp make a building post-modern. Thank you for the lesson.
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Modernism = we reject all forms and conventions, every piece must be a complete surprise

Post-Modernism = we reject having to adhere to forms and convention, but we can use or abuse them with intentionality at our discretion/whim.
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
Why could they not design the third tower to fit in with the existing architecture making it look like a cohesive resort!? There are plenty of design elements in the existing Graves buildings that could have been lifted to at least give a nod to what is already built instead of building a big glass box that seems to have no connection whatsoever.
 
Epcot82Guy

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
Bocabear said:
Why could they not design the third tower to fit in with the existing architecture making it look like a cohesive resort!? There are plenty of design elements in the existing Graves buildings that could have been lifted to at least give a nod to what is already built instead of building a big glass box that seems to have no connection whatsoever.
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That is my frustration like this. Swan and Dolphin each have columns, turrets and designs that could easily be incorporated. Even if just at the ends of each tower/"seam". Pick something subtle (like "The Pearl at the Swan and Dolphin" or the Flamingo or the Nautilus...)

But, the "Walt Disney World Office" just reads as incredibly lazy.
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
Epcot82Guy said:
That is my frustration like this. Swan and Dolphin each have columns, turrets and designs that could easily be incorporated. Even if just at the ends of each tower/"seam". Pick something subtle (like "The Pearl at the Swan and Dolphin" or the Flamingo or the Nautilus...)

But, the "Walt Disney World Office" just reads as incredibly lazy.
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and there are SO MANY motifs to choose from that could integrate the new building seamlessly with the resort...It could actually have attributes of both towers to make it a thematic bridge... Make it part of the fabric of the resort rather than a "Marriott school of Design", incredibly usual hotel building... Talk about lazy design.
 
wdwmagic

wdwmagic

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