Star Wars VII Cast Announced!

[lebeau]

I guess it depends on how you define "unnecessary sequel"? Yes, I would agree that the best reason for a sequel is to finish a story started in earlier movies but there is nothing wrong with a sequel telling a new story using the same characters and world of the original. For example Aliens is a great movie, and although it does wrap up the story of what happened the Ripley after the first movie, it's manly a totally new and standalone story that didn't "need" to be told. Just because a sequel doesn't continue a story doesn't make it a cash grab.

I see a cash grab as a movie that tries to exploit the success of it's predecessor without putting much effort into the attempt, especially movies that just do the same thing over and over in each sequel.

Mostly agree. The entire James Bond series is nothing but unnecessary sequels. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Master Yoda]

Does anyone know what the overall story arc was supposed to be when Lucas had originally planned for nine movies (three trilogies) to begin with? I know he later decided that 6 was sufficient, and changed his public stance toward a third trilogy, but for most of my younger years, he was saying that it was a 9-part series with three trilogies making up the story, that he was doing the middle first, then the early ones, then the later ones. What was the storyline supposed to be for the later ones, at that time?

I imagined that, like 1-3 was a generation above Luke, that 7-9 was about Luke's children.

It is hard to know what to believe when it comes to the 3, 6 or 9 movies legend. Lucas has always seemed to go back and forth on the subject.

One interview he will say 6, another he said 9, still others have hinted at 12.

When A New Hope originally released there was no "Episode IV" in the title. I have a feeling Lucas might have had ideas for what came after Episode 4, maybe an inkling of what came before, but nothing was set in stone until E4 was out and all but printing money.

Had it had tanked, I have a feeling that it would have been one and done.

 

[Bairstow]

I had always heard that Lucas intended for 6 movies. A New Hope tested the waters. Then 5 and 6 were later released thus why Luke looks freaking old. 1-3 werent created because at the time the technology wasnt enough to put his vision on the screen (seriously how could you portray Coroscaunt and pod racing with 70's-80's tech). I dont think that he had thought Star Wars would take off like it did...thats probably why there were no other stories prepared aka 7-9. Abrams just needs to sit in Lucas' head and become him to make this a successful story of peace and love. There has to be a TON of continuity. This cant be like the 20 different versions of Godzilla.

I've always thought that when Lucas says he's planned out all these movies in advance, years ago, he's lying through his teeth.
He might have had some vague ideas about the kinds of things he thought would look cool, but everything about the prequels came across as rushed, influenced by what merchandise sold well in the '80s, and cribbed from other popular movies.

 

[Gomer]

It is hard to know what to believe when it comes to the 3, 6 or 9 movies legend. Lucas has always seemed to go back and forth on the subject.

One interview he will say 6, another he said 9, still others have hinted at 12.

When A New Hope originally released there was no "Episode IV" in the title. I have a feeling Lucas might have had ideas for what came after Episode 4, maybe an inkling of what came before, but nothing was set in stone until E4 was out and all but printing money.

Had it had tanked, I have a feeling that it would have been one and done.

Mark Hamill has always maintained that Lucas pitched Episodes 7-9 to him during the filming of empire and said it would be filmed about 30 years after RotJ. The intention was for the prequels to come in between. How much of that is true or not, I don’t know. I do believe that after the difficult experience of the prequel trilogy Lucas gave up on the idea of a sequel trilogy until Disney came calling.

Potential spoilers below if any of the rumors are true…

As far as the rumors go though, Lucas’s original intent for the ST was thrown out with the Arndt script. Abrams and Kennedy convinced him that whatever approach they are taking now is better. Supposedly Arndt’s/Lucas’s story focused on Solo offspring with Luke being a hermit sought out to aid in some sort of mission and not really appearing until the end of Ep VII. Abrams thought the first movie back should focus on the original characters with a slow passing of the torch to a new trio centered around a skywalker offspring. Hence the rewrites. All of this is rumors of course. So, take that with a sizable grain of salt.

 

[Master Yoda]

Mark Hamill has always maintained that Lucas pitched Episodes 7-9 to him during the filming of empire and said it would be filmed about 30 years after RotJ. The intention was for the prequels to come in between. How much of that is true or not, I don’t know. I do believe that after the difficult experience of the prequel trilogy Lucas gave up on the idea of a sequel trilogy until Disney came calling.

Potential spoilers below if any of the rumors are true…

As far as the rumors go though, Lucas’s original intent for the ST was thrown out with the Arndt script. Abrams and Kennedy convinced him that whatever approach they are taking now is better. Supposedly Arndt’s/Lucas’s story focused on Solo offspring with Luke being a hermit sought out to aid in some sort of mission and not really appearing until the end of Ep VII. Abrams thought the first movie back should focus on the original characters with a slow passing of the torch to a new trio centered around a skywalker offspring. Hence the rewrites. All of this is rumors of course. So, take that with a sizable grain of salt.

I think I have heard that Mamill rumor before and I have never really bought it. No one plans to do a sequel 30 year later. Half the cast could have easily passed due to natural causes in that time, let alone accidents, drug uses, etc.

 

[danlb_2000]

It is hard to know what to believe when it comes to the 3, 6 or 9 movies legend. Lucas has always seemed to go back and forth on the subject.

One interview he will say 6, another he said 9, still others have hinted at 12.

When A New Hope originally released there was no "Episode IV" in the title. I have a feeling Lucas might have had ideas for what came after Episode 4, maybe an inkling of what came before, but nothing was set in stone until E4 was out and all but printing money.

Had it had tanked, I have a feeling that it would have been one and done.

I have recently been reading a lot of old issues of Starlog thanks to Archive.org and you can see this right there in print in these old magazine, different people said different things about how many movies there would be.

My favorite this I have found in these magazines so far about Star Wars was this quote from producer Gary Kurtz talking about the yet to be released Empire:

"So we've been toying with the idea of ignoring the numbers completely. Instead, we'll give each movie episode a unique title. I mean, if we had to give each film its true number in the series, this movie would be called Episode Five: The Empire Strikes Back. The first film would be called Episode Four! Can you imagine how complicated it would get? If we released a story like that publicly through a press release, thousands of people would be totally con- fused. Everyone would want to know what happened to the other three movies."

 

[Gomer]

I think I have heard that Mamill rumor before and I have never really bought it. No one plans to do a sequel 30 year later. Half the cast could have easily passed due to natural causes in that time, let alone accidents, drug uses, etc.

With most directors I would agree with you. And plan is probably a strong word. But what I know and have heard of Lucas, he’s a bit of a strange guy. And exactly the type who would dream on a 30 year scale like that. Not saying he necessarily thought it would happen. Nor am I saying the details of the plots for either of the subsequent trilogies were planned out extensively. But a general desire and idea for 9 or 12 movies working 30-40 years in the future. That seems exactly like the off kilter plan George would concoct.

I mean this is the same guy who reportedly went off on a 25 minute rant in a brief meeting with Seth Rogen on the specifics of the Mayan 2012 Apocalypse…
http://www.torontosun.com/entertainment/movies/2011/01/18/16927446-wenn-story.html

 

[Bairstow]

I mean this is the same guy who reportedly went off on a 25 minute rant in a brief meeting with Seth Rogen on the specifics of the Mayan 2012 Apocalypse…
http://www.torontosun.com/entertainment/movies/2011/01/18/16927446-wenn-story.html

Then there's the whole Red Tails situation.

 

[lebeau]

Does anyone know what the overall story arc was supposed to be when Lucas had originally planned for nine movies (three trilogies) to begin with? I know he later decided that 6 was sufficient, and changed his public stance toward a third trilogy, but for most of my younger years, he was saying that it was a 9-part series with three trilogies making up the story, that he was doing the middle first, then the early ones, then the later ones. What was the storyline supposed to be for the later ones, at that time?

I imagined that, like 1-3 was a generation above Luke, that 7-9 was about Luke's children.

I had always heard that Lucas intended for 6 movies. A New Hope tested the waters. Then 5 and 6 were later released thus why Luke looks freaking old. 1-3 werent created because at the time the technology wasnt enough to put his vision on the screen (seriously how could you portray Coroscaunt and pod racing with 70's-80's tech). I dont think that he had thought Star Wars would take off like it did...thats probably why there were no other stories prepared aka 7-9. Abrams just needs to sit in Lucas' head and become him to make this a successful story of peace and love. There has to be a TON of continuity. This cant be like the 20 different versions of Godzilla.

There is a LOT of misinformation out there on this subject. Much of it spread by Lucas who frequently changed his story depending on the mood. At one point, he said he would make as many as 12 movies - the original trilogy, a prequel trilogy and a follow-up trilogy plus a trilogy of movies that were not connected to the main story.

The number changed from 12 to 9 to 6. Eventually, Lucas started claiming that he never planned any more than 6 movies and quotes to the contrary were the result of the press goading him on.

Nobody has a firm answer as to what plans if any Lucas made for movies 7-9. At best, it's probably a couple of scribbled notes. He didn't have the prequels mapped out very well even as he was filming them. Revenge of the Sith was re-edited after becuase Lucas changed his mind about why Anakin turned to the Dark Side. He decided after the fact that Anakin would turn to the Dark Side out of love for Padme, but that's not how it was shot.

There is this myth that Lucas has some grand scheme for the Star Wars saga. But when you look at how poorly he lined up the prequels with the original trilogy, he obviously does not have a master plan. Abrams doesn't need to pick Lucas' brain. It's been picked clean already. Besides, all George is likely to do is give you 200 pages of notes on Wookie dialect.

If you want to read more on the subject, I highly recommend The Secret History of Star Wars. It contains the most detailed and researched information available on the story behind the movies. Here is a link to an article about the history of the sequels:

http://www.secrethistoryofstarwars.com/completehistoryofthesequeltrilogy.html

 

[lebeau]

It is hard to know what to believe when it comes to the 3, 6 or 9 movies legend. Lucas has always seemed to go back and forth on the subject.

One interview he will say 6, another he said 9, still others have hinted at 12.

When A New Hope originally released there was no "Episode IV" in the title. I have a feeling Lucas might have had ideas for what came after Episode 4, maybe an inkling of what came before, but nothing was set in stone until E4 was out and all but printing money.

Had it had tanked, I have a feeling that it would have been one and done.

The fact that Vader was Luke's father wasn't even worked out until Empire. This central plot point went through several revisions over the years. At one point, Anakin and Vader were not the same person. The idea that Luke and Leia were sisters was also not set in stone until Jedi. When Yoda referred to "another" in Empire, it was not a direct reference to Leia. That line was written to cast some doubt on Luke's fate when facing down Vader. They hadn't decided for sure whether or not there actually was "another" or who it would be.

Lucas has claimed to have everything mapped out. But he's really been making everything up on the fly more often than not. As you said, it's hard to know anything for sure becuase he never gives the same answer twice.

 

[erasure fan1]

To come back to the original point, Star Wars 7 is as much a cash grab as any other unnecessary sequel. If it's done well, no one will care.

Correct, but isn't that the point of everything in entertainment? To make money? If it was a all out cash grab, you don't hire Abrams in my eyes. It seems like Disney wants to grow the series the right way, so in the end, yes they make money.

Lucas has said that Luke fulfilled the prophesy of bringing balance to the Force (or whatever).

Not to be too big of a nerd but Lucas has always said it was Anakins story not Lukes. Anakin is the one who brings "balance to the force" by destroying the emperor. This to me means that only the first part of Lukes story was told and the next 3 movies (or how ever many he ends up in) will conclude his. Since the end of Jedi when I was a kid, I always wanted to know what happened to Luke and the Jedi order.... So for me (and I'm sure a lot of others) finishing Lukes story is very welcome.

 

[MasterJedi]

Correct, but isn't that the point of everything in entertainment? To make money? If it was a all out cash grab, you don't hire Abrams in my eyes. It seems like Disney wants to grow the series the right way, so in the end, yes they make money.



Not to be too big of a nerd but Lucas has always said it was Anakins story not Lukes. Anakin is the one who brings "balance to the force" by destroying the emperor. This to me means that only the first part of Lukes story was told and the next 3 movies (or how ever many he ends up in) will conclude his. Since the end of Jedi when I was a kid, I always wanted to know what happened to Luke and the Jedi order.... So for me (and I'm sure a lot of others) finishing Lukes story is very welcome.

I agree!

 

[prberk]

I have recently been reading a lot of old issues of Starlog thanks to Archive.org and you can see this right there in print in these old magazine, different people said different things about how many movies there would be.

My favorite this I have found in these magazines so far about Star Wars was this quote from producer Gary Kurtz talking about the yet to be released Empire:

"So we've been toying with the idea of ignoring the numbers completely. Instead, we'll give each movie episode a unique title. I mean, if we had to give each film its true number in the series, this movie would be called Episode Five: The Empire Strikes Back. The first film would be called Episode Four! Can you imagine how complicated it would get? If we released a story like that publicly through a press release, thousands of people would be totally con- fused. Everyone would want to know what happened to the other three movies."

What a cool find. And I assure you that soon thereafter, especially as it became apparent that it was in fact the fifth in the series, a marketing person reminded everyone of the cool factor and free publicity that would come from that very news (how unique this series and its film-maker were, such that they would start a series with Episode Four). It also set him up to be considered a genius with a grand scheme, if not crazy.

I personally think that he did have a grand overall design, but that all the pieces were not really fleshed out; and like anyone would do, he tweaked it as he had to flesh each piece out. I think that clearly explains why Leia kissed Luke in SW... because it was not on his RADAR yet that they would end up being siblings (although it could have been and just a signal that they did not know it yet)....

 

[prberk]

It is hard to know what to believe when it comes to the 3, 6 or 9 movies legend. Lucas has always seemed to go back and forth on the subject.

One interview he will say 6, another he said 9, still others have hinted at 12.

When A New Hope originally released there was no "Episode IV" in the title. I have a feeling Lucas might have had ideas for what came after Episode 4, maybe an inkling of what came before, but nothing was set in stone until E4 was out and all but printing money.

Had it had tanked, I have a feeling that it would have been one and done.

I think I agree except that I do think, like I said above he had an overall story drawn out.. a backstory if you will.

I do know this: that he believed in it, or else he would not have done the famous deal to add budget to finish the movie and owe him nothing except the rights to it. And that is a lesson I still think should be taught in every business school: the more of a stake you have in the success of your work (ownership), the more likely you will be to make it the best that it can be... which ultimately is more likely to succeed... and even benefit others.