News Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance Standby Line and Boarding Groups at Disney's Hollywood Studios

flynnibus

Premium Member
The two are not mutually exclusive. You need to have both items, and they did not. How can you adequately test and refine without realistic load? It's been two weeks and they are still at best are at 2/3 capacity. So you're just flat out wrong.

You don't know if your solution fixes the capacity problem.. hence why you are just grabbing at history vs actual facts.
If you are embarrassed by the fact that world leader in quality theme park attractions had to give out bananas, water, and complimentary park hoppers (which was a very decent and commendable thing for them to do) because they weren't ready well then...

So.. when we compare this to attractions where Disney did follow your model.. and still had extended downtimes and even less guest recovery.. then what? How did the magic softs fail them there? How were guests treated any better by having that soft?

The bottom line is.. you keep preaching a fix that you can't even say would have fixed the problem (vs the path that was chosen). And hanging a fictional, non-existent group as the victims of this mistake.
 

disneygeek90

Well-Known Member
Looks like they figured out a ton operationally in just the past two days.
74E2F091-8AEA-4C64-8F33-B2B3A5B97960.jpeg
 

monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member
You don't know if your solution fixes the capacity problem.. hence why you are just grabbing at history vs actual facts.
A large part of the problem as described by reputable sources here was that the number of ride vehicles corresponded to how well the system operated. Just as recently as today it says that after two weeks, they have found comfortable level running at a level less than designed. This is what softs let you figure out. Maybe you should just pay attention more.

So.. when we compare this to attractions where Disney did follow your model.. and still had extended downtimes and even less guest recovery.. then what? How did the magic softs fail them there? How were guests treated any better by having that soft?

The bottom line is.. you keep preaching a fix that you can't even say would have fixed the problem (vs the path that was chosen). And hanging a fictional, non-existent group as the victims of this mistake.

A very similar rollout was Test Track. It was in soft openings for four months because they couldn't get it working reliably, and even after it is still a finicky ride system. WDI and OPS needed and used all that time to get it at least running consistently. Here we have just a complicated of a ride system with even greater pressure and they can't even get 4 hours let alone 4 months.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
A large part of the problem as described by reputable sources here was that the number of ride vehicles corresponded to how well the system operated. Just as recently as today it says that after two weeks, they have found comfortable level running at a level less than designed. This is what softs let you figure out. Maybe you should just pay attention more.

No, you should pay attention to the point that actually matters -- That the optimization was FOUND WITHOUT THE SOFT! Softs would not necessarily have brought that solution to light any differently than it has been done already. And the fact it wasn't addressed before general opening has not negatively impacted the impression of the company or opening.

I'm not saying the attraction is flawless.. what i'm pointing out is you're preaching a solution without actually knowing if it fixes the problem or gives any benefit more than what the alternative has.
A very similar rollout was Test Track. It was in soft openings for four months because they couldn't get it working reliably, and even after it is still a finicky ride system. WDI and OPS needed and used all that time to get it at least running consistently. Here we have just a complicated of a ride system with even greater pressure and they can't even get 4 hours let alone 4 months.

Here you are comparing a system that had softs for 4+ months and couldn't get it right... to a system that did not, and 10 days (not 100 days) they are dialing the system in and are already getting nearly 25% more riders through and NO abandoned guests.. and you're still pointing out Test Track as the example of what should have been done?

Maybe it's time to catch on that not all ride openings have the same issues and solutions..
 

monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member
I was in line and off the ride in an hour last night. The same wait in the queue as last weekend when BG's were not being called as quickly.
I'm talking about today, a couple of posters today said that that the internal queue was more dense and extended longer than previously. Which is a good thing because it means they are now more comfortable with the consistency of operations of the ride. So they can load it up more.
 

monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member
No, you should pay attention to the point that actually matters -- That the optimization was FOUND WITHOUT THE SOFT! Softs would not necessarily have brought that solution to light any differently than it has been done already. And the fact it wasn't addressed before general opening has not negatively impacted the impression of the company or opening.

I'm not saying the attraction is flawless.. what i'm pointing out is you're preaching a solution without actually knowing if it fixes the problem.
And you think it is a good thing that these operational issues were discovered when the thing went live? Seriously? No one wants to find problems and figure out basic optimization in production systems. That's why you test and do softs or betas before going live. You of course can make modifications in production, but why make your audience a test subject?

Here you are comparing a system that had softs for 4+ months and couldn't get it right... to a system that did not, and 10 days (not 100 days) they are dialing the system in and are already getting nearly 25% more riders through and NO abandoned guests.. and you're still pointing out Test Track as the example of what should have been done?

Maybe it's time to catch on that not all ride openings have the same issues and solutions..

You're talking in circles once again. All premieres will have their own problems, but there is a standard approach which has worked very well for Disney and others in the past, especially with super complicated ride systems. Going live and using guests as unknowing test subjects is not part of that approach.
 

Coaster Lover

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Looks like they figured out a ton operationally in just the past two days.View attachment 435003

They averaged a new boarding group every 7 minutes yesterday (their previous best day), today they are averaging a new boarding group every 4 mins 48 seconds. A marked improvement. They're up to BG 122 now, I wonder how many "extra" BGs they actually gave out... five hours to close...
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
They averaged a new boarding group every 7 minutes yesterday (their previous best day), today they are averaging a new boarding group every 4 mins 48 seconds. A marked improvement. They're up to BG 122 now, I wonder how many "extra" BGs they actually gave out... five hours to close...

This all presumes the number of people in a boarding group is the same from day to day and week to week...
 

disneygeek90

Well-Known Member
They averaged a new boarding group every 7 minutes yesterday (their previous best day), today they are averaging a new boarding group every 4 mins 48 seconds. A marked improvement. They're up to BG 122 now, I wonder how many "extra" BGs they actually gave out... five hours to close...
We know there's at least 139.

All of this back and forth is moot at this point. It is what it is, and operations has done a great job in figuring this out along the way. Call it a soft open or call it an unpredictable two weeks with some decent downtime. Anyone that showed up this month, especially the first week, should have known and understood that there could be issues.

Regardless, I'm sure the hundred thousand people that have now been through the ride are glad it's open.
 

disneygeek90

Well-Known Member
I wonder how many BG they gave out. What if they have boarded everyone by 6pm? Park open for 3 more hours. Wonder if they would do walk on
Standby still seems a little risky. Opening BG's would be the better solution I would think so they can control how many backup backup groups they allow.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
And you think it is a good thing that these operational issues were discovered when the thing went live? Seriously? No one wants to find problems and figure out basic optimization in production systems. That's why you test and do softs or betas before going live. You of course can make modifications in production, but why make your audience a test subject?

Because there is a point of diminishing returns and if your metrics are good enough, you should launch and accept that you will still do continuous improvements. You know.. the same determination they make AFTER doing softs.

Play out your preferred scenario... the attraction has been processing on avg over 100 BGs a day... with the worst we saw was only down about 20%, with the best being nearly 30% over that.

Let's say you got your soft openings for a week.. and they ran for 1/3 the day.. which is pretty typical of the limited daytime hours most softs do.. less than half the day. They open late, they close early. Let's be generous and say they rock it and get 100% utilization during their 40% run time of the day. That's equivalent to 40 BGs getting through a day. They do that for a week. And at the end of their softs, instead of running up to -20% on worst days, let's assume they get to their full 120 BGs EVERYDAY after opening due to their work during softs.. and we get our second week at this higher capacity.

That means for 14 days, they would have serviced 280+840 = 1120 BGs.

Now contrast this with what they have done... let's assume the conservative 100BG average.. during that same 14 day period, they've serviced 1400 BGs.

As you can see, more guests have experienced the ride even tho it's not running at 100% vs the alternate strategy to try to improve operations with taking another week of softs.

Even if the softs meant they improved operations to run at 130 BGs a day at opening.. they STILL have serviced LESS GUESTS than if they just opened the attraction with lower capacity. Even if they were to get higher utilization during softs and averaged 45 BGs (to better match the 130 we've seen lately).. they still fall short of what they actually did and just opened the attraction with the throughput they had. (45*7 + 130*7 = 1225)

So what would have using softs gained the guests who showed up at opening? Nothing... fewer people would have gotten to experience the attraction during the same period of time. The same optimizations that would have been gained from softs, are happening now. There are not reports that the attraction is being HINDERED by having the guests on it are there?

And what negative consequence did Disney face by 'testing with the public'? You don't test with the public when there is negative consequences for doing so. Bad experience, safety risks, negative impact to their day, etc. But has that been a problem here? No... the main risk of downtime has been mitigated by Disney through GR efforts and the virtual queue. Limiting the number of guests impacted by an unexpected shutdown. The net result of this has been almost universal praise from everyone who has been through the process. All those people you put 'at risk' by not using softs have resoundedly said 'WE ARE OK!'

So.. like I said pages ago... the people with the most to lose from not using softs was Disney's accountants.. as Disney used tech, staff, and GR compensation to offset the risks their guests faced by queuing for an attraction that didn't have any softs.

By not having softs, MORE guests have gotten through, the attraction is still being optimized, and Disney is not facing negative customer sentiment.

You're talking in circles once again. All premieres will have their own problems, but there is a standard approach which has worked very well for Disney and others in the past, especially with super complicated ride systems. Going live and using guests as unknowing test subjects is not part of that approach.

I'm not talking in circles.. you're bringing up cites that don't support your postulation. You also fail to acknowledge how Disney CHANGED what they did to mitigate the risks of negative customer impact... which by all accounts.. have been working. Instead of just pounding the drum of "keep doing what we've always done..." recognize it's not just a single thing left out... its multiple changes in the approach.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
And you think it is a good thing that these operational issues were discovered when the thing went live? Seriously? No one wants to find problems and figure out basic optimization in production systems. That's why you test and do softs or betas before going live. You of course can make modifications in production, but why make your audience a test subject?



You're talking in circles once again. All premieres will have their own problems, but there is a standard approach which has worked very well for Disney and others in the past, especially with super complicated ride systems. Going live and using guests as unknowing test subjects is not part of that approach.
I'm still unsure what you think "softs" would have done. Soft openings still serve guests. The only thing a soft does is serve guests.

It's kinda like GMail. It had the "beta" tag for almost a decade. Yet people were using it for their email. It's just a label.

In a sense they did do softs with the boarding groups. They just didn't label it as such.
 

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