GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
I wonder if any of the cruise will be at light speed? The effects out of the portals would be interesting.
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News Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser coming to Walt Disney World 2021
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GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
OK? You know like something the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy does in 12 Parsecs. I illustrate;
TiggerDad
Well-Known Member
Hyperspace. And don’t get me started on what a parsec is.
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
Both Princess Leia and Han use the term "Light Speed" in the failed attempt to make the jump into Hyperspace in A New Hope. And this is what a Parsec is; "parsec
[ˈpärsek]
NOUN
- a unit of distance used in astronomy, equal to about 3.26 light years (3.086 × 1013 kilometers). One parsec corresponds to the distance at which the mean radius of the earth's orbit subtends an angle of one second of arc."
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
Thank you. True fans know these details.
Like the parsec fiasco, an example of Lucas' lack of science... or he just doesn't care.
In that clip there is "jump to lightspeed" and also "jump to hyperspace."
They can't be interchangeable. When it comes to interstellar space, light is incredibly slow, taking years to get to the nearest star.
Jumping into hyperspace is a extradimensional shortcut, in effect going thousands of times the speed of light.
You can't have galactic star wars if it takes years to get to the next star.
A star 4 light years away would take 4 years to get to traveling in the way you describe.
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
The fact is this experience is supposed to be an immersion into Star Wars so the terms spoken and visual effects used should coincide with the movies. The creators of movies actually brag about taking artistic license with facts and details in making movies. So actual detailed science? Uhhh no.
While he does say “…jump to lightspeed…” and “…jump to hyperspace…”, he’s talking about two different things. The first reference is to the course and speed the ship will take (lightspeed-hence the need for the calculations), while the second is in reference to the location where they will be safe (hyperspace).
Lightspeed allows them to reach hyperspace, at which point the laws of physics and distance in normal space no longer apply. So the distance an object travels in normal space isn’t the same as it would be in hyperspace.
Lightspeed allows them to reach hyperspace, at which point the laws of physics and distance in normal space no longer apply. So the distance an object travels in normal space isn’t the same as it would be in hyperspace.
corran horn
Well-Known Member
So did Captain Rex.
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
In the animated Clone Wars.So did Captain Rex.
corran horn
Well-Known Member
Voice of Disney sanity
Well-Known Member
There is one big thing I see missing from some of these theories. A lot of the biggest Star Wars fans saw the original movies in the theaters a long time ago and have since grown up and become affluent. The theories that I am seeing put forth only believe diehard Star Wars fans are broke. When the fact is quite a few of the biggest Star Wars fans have lots of money and will pay up for this experience.
DonaldDoleWhip
Well-Known Member
The question was "If you love Disney and have this kind of money, why on Earth not go to Tokyo?" I was cheekily making the point that plenty of us have made the trip.
Honestly, even after visiting each Disney park worldwide, I feel there's still a lot to enjoy stateside. The immersion of WDW's bubble is beyond compare (also, no other Disney resort has an Animal Kingdom, World Showcase, or such a diverse hotel collection), and it's hard to top a day of park hopping between DL and DCA in terms of sheer fun.
Pricing this one new experience at asinine levels doesn't preclude me from enjoying the rest of WDW, or from exploring real-world locales on a separate timeline (over the last three years alone, have enjoyed Italy, Japan, China, Australia, Morocco, Colombia, French Polynesia, and three islands of Hawaii). Certainly not deprived, and I can also live with this new offering being priced so high that it'll never be in my consideration set.
ChrisFL
Premium Member
I think Disney has several problems right now:
- People don't REALLY understand it. There's been tons of questions even after the FAQ, like "am I trapped in my hotel room/galaxy's edge?"...missing the point that it's only a 2 day stay and designed to be Star Wars exclusive, and probably as an add-on to another resort stay.
- There's not many rooms, but they're having to get the number of guests who have the money, are huge star wars fans, want to LARP, don't mind the sequel trilogy and that they're ONLY going to live Star Wars for 2 days
- The itinerary presented feels very rushed, and the main day it's going non-stop from 7AM to 11PM. Sure there will be other options to opt out or change, but whew they should already state that.
I think a more traditional hotel approach for 3-4 night stays with more standard accommodations like a pool, other recreation activites outside of poker and laser sword training and LARPing as a spy or something would fare much better.
Then again just doing the math, 100 rooms 3 times a week = just over 15,000 families a year would need to sign up for this.
The biggest thing Disney could do right now to change people's opinions? Have it set in the original trilogy timeline, make Galaxy's Edge also in the original trilogy timeline...would it really be that difficult? It feels to me like all of the parts are relatively easily swapped out to do this, then you have the original content, the Mandalorian/Grogu stuff, Luke Skywalker is back, Boba Fett, etc. Why? Because this Starcruiser experience is not catering to the adults being dragged by their Star Wars loving children for this IMO, it's for the die hard adult fans with families.
- People don't REALLY understand it. There's been tons of questions even after the FAQ, like "am I trapped in my hotel room/galaxy's edge?"...missing the point that it's only a 2 day stay and designed to be Star Wars exclusive, and probably as an add-on to another resort stay.
- There's not many rooms, but they're having to get the number of guests who have the money, are huge star wars fans, want to LARP, don't mind the sequel trilogy and that they're ONLY going to live Star Wars for 2 days
- The itinerary presented feels very rushed, and the main day it's going non-stop from 7AM to 11PM. Sure there will be other options to opt out or change, but whew they should already state that.
I think a more traditional hotel approach for 3-4 night stays with more standard accommodations like a pool, other recreation activites outside of poker and laser sword training and LARPing as a spy or something would fare much better.
Then again just doing the math, 100 rooms 3 times a week = just over 15,000 families a year would need to sign up for this.
The biggest thing Disney could do right now to change people's opinions? Have it set in the original trilogy timeline, make Galaxy's Edge also in the original trilogy timeline...would it really be that difficult? It feels to me like all of the parts are relatively easily swapped out to do this, then you have the original content, the Mandalorian/Grogu stuff, Luke Skywalker is back, Boba Fett, etc. Why? Because this Starcruiser experience is not catering to the adults being dragged by their Star Wars loving children for this IMO, it's for the die hard adult fans with families.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
For anyone not already following this debate (and for those of you who are, why? Isn't your time worth more than mine apparently is, typing all of this?) I'd suggest you skip this post.
It won't bring anything meaningful to your life because now I'm just is a potty match with flynnibus that we're both probably too old for.
Anyway, you've been warned.
[catty voice]
I read this earlier and when I had time to sit down and reply now hours later, I noticed some things have changed.
Are you planning to make major edits to this post again or do you feel comfortable that you've cleared up some of the poor logic and contradictions to your own previous post that you originally published, now?
Either way, I won't bother addressing the points you decided to take back and/or change but I want you to know, I saw it.
That said, if you're having to put this much effort into following your own half of the conversation while telling me I'm dead wrong, why don't you just say you don't agree with me and call it a day?
With these examples you've tossed out and are standing behind, I now feel like I have to bother rebuking them - something I'm not going to bother doing with all of it because you've worn me down to just not caring anymore.
[/catty voice]
SMH - WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
Where Did I say Disney should only ever market Star Wars things at mass market?
Where did I even imply that?
You really need to quit putting words in my mouth.
The only thing I'm saying here is that it doesn't make sense to me that Disney would be doing this the way they are doing it if they're seeing it as a worth-while profit opportunity in isolation (something I go into a lot more detail about below) - that's it!
I feel like it has to be a bigger play than that.
Just as a fun excursion, though, so you don't think I'm hand-waving all your points away, lets talk about one or two of the things you classified as "Premium" previously which you're comparing to this and claiming are themselves, not related to the parks, even though, the connections I was trying to make were not just to the theme parks.
I'd address them all but I'm not getting paid by the word to write this and nobody but you and me care about this debate at this point, anyway:
DisneyQuest?
I went opening month. If memory serves me, admission was somewhere around $30 and included a play card which was essentially an early version of the same kinds they now use in arcades and Chuck E. Cheese all over. When you got admission you got the card with that dollar amount on it that you used for stuff inside.
If you went over that amount in individual experiences (everything had it's own cost), there were stations where you could add value and if you came back another day, you had to pay another admission and get another full card but you could still use the value on the old card if you had anything left on it - you just couldn't use the old one to get in.
I guess it was sort of like an admission and digital version of the old ticket book strategy.
The history of why that changed is pretty easy to find online but when they closed a handful of years ago as an all-you-can-play arcade, the price was what? $45 or part of an add-on to resort stay packages?
Please tell me at what point that was - and I quote (emphasis yours) - a "PREMIUM priced" thing?
Now that we've established Disney Quest was not a premium product like you're saying it was, let's talk about when it opened.
In 1998 Disney did not own Star Wars, or Marvel... or Pixar. They'd only had ABC and ESPN for a little over 2 years and were just starting their maiden voyage of their own cruise line that same year.
They were a far cry from the media behemoth they are today and Comcast had not even attempted their hostile takeover yet.
Remember when Disney was small enough that Comcast almost ate them whole?
Back then, the whole concept behind Disney Quest was going to be a "virtual" theme park in a box that would be regional. They even called the concept an indoor interactive theme park... but yeah, as you say, it had nothing to do with theme parks.
Oh, and where did the first one open?
Wait, I remember - Walt Disney World.
Bonus question: which one did they keep open after they scrapped the concept?
Speaking of things that aren't premium pricing relative to the subject at hand, Disney cruise lines offers largely all-inclusive pricing that can start for around $200 a day per person for a 7 night cruse and only a little more per day on a 3 nighter - easily cheaper than a comparable trip with similar accommodations at WDWs regular resorts+parks+food.
The price can go up of course but it's still cheaper to go on an actual cruise ship that actually takes you somewhere than it is to stay here at WDW and go to theme parks and if your plan is to stay at WDW and do this experience instead - do I need to state the obvious?
Again to be clear, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that - just that your comparison makes no sense as a "PREMIUM" experience.
Ah, and where did they set up their original port to launch from?
That's right, the closest one to Walt Disney World.
And why did they expand? The surprise success of the west coast cruises they launched as a result of their tie into the 50th anniversary of Disneyland?
And what's Disneyland again? It's on the tip of my tongue but I just can't think of it. It's some kind of experiences... something people usually call a... I just can't nail that down right now gosh darn it!
(is this getting annoying yet?)
Again, none of this has anything to do with theme parks, though, right? All pure coincidence, I'm sure.
I wanted to call attention to this line specifically since you're arguing against, yet again, something else I never said. My "hypothesis" has nothing to do with testing price points for theme parks. You can read it again to verify but those are your words - not mine.
I'm not talking about testing anything. I'm talking about price anchoring. Anchoring as it pertains to the parks, the resorts, the cruise lines, Aulani - and probably more I can't think of right now.
I assume if you know what that is, you wouldn't have misread what I wrote. Again, I referenced an excellent book on the subject that goes into academic depth on the subject but the basics are pretty easy to Google.
I expect if you respond, you'll say you already knew about it, though.
Never said everything was. Never said this was (just) about theme parks but since so much of what you've brought up sure seems to be related to theme parks and because you're so insistent on saying none of these things are it's so fun to point out all the obvious ways theme parks clearly played a role.
I'm not sure which pitch meeting you were invited to sit on on or if by "pitched" you mean the rather vague details of what they started out saying they were doing but none of that actually matters because what was built and what is being offered absolutely has to be anchored to WDW since a major element of the core experience is tied directly to admission to a theme park there.
This is a limited (in exclusivity, pricing, and scope) experience that by it's very design has a cap of around, let's say $250 million a year in gross income - not net profit, just gross income - with zero opportunity to expand at the same "premium level" unless they want to start investing in stand-alone GE lands or want to build another one connected to another theme park (which would be only Disneyland, at the moment).
Funny how this thing that has almost no growth potential (maybe they can do a space cupcake party up-charge) by itself and as you say is "not about theme parks" is inextricably tied to one, isn't it?
For some people, $250 million sounds like a lot. It would be life-changing for you and me, of course but lets be real - you're not that naive.
Disney left more cash on the table by streaming the last two Pixar films included with Disney+ without theaters or Premier pricing to keep their yet-to-turn-a-profit service afloat while COVID threw a major wrench in the original content planned for it.
Black Widow grossed $264M over the first 10 days in worldwide theaters (despite Disney+ Premier access not being counted towards that) in the middle of a global pandemic and people are talking like it's a failure.
A number of nearly twice that is casually being batted around as the price tag for the latest-and-greatest e-ticket scheduled to open some day/year in Epcot and I've yet to see anyone argue that is a crazy exaggerated estimate.
Maybe it is but when people have said that, I haven't seen it challenged by anyone.
We don't know what they expect the annual net is going to be but it can't be anything close to $250m.
This is not going to be a lot of money on Disney's spreadsheets and I honestly think if their goal was to make this hold it's own on a piece of real estate in Reedy Creek, dollar-for-dollar, they'd have gone a very different way.
All that said, I could see the Disney of 1998 tying to pop this kind of experience up as a standalone (built to actually work standalone) in a few major areas across the country when they were the company that made most of their money on theme parks and un-vaulted animated movies.
It would have been a major potential growth opportunity for that Disney if it worked although I think even they would have gone a lot less ambitious with it and pricing would have been a lot less premium.
But this isn't that Disney and this isn't something this Disney has created with a clear path to expand in any direction.
Today's Disney Co. doesn't bother with standalone things like DisneyQuest, though - they just build more theme parks in other countries and use the cookie-cutter-attraction-they-can-clone-to-shave-costs approach they seemed to have worked out in their DisneyQuest attempt, instead.
After considering all of this, I stand by my belief that this can't be just about making money on this experience.
And if it is about standalone revenue, why are the most interested people here who are ready to pay the announced pricing discussing ideas like how it would make more sense to tack this on to the beginning or end of their stay, visiting the parks before or after rather than this just being all they'd be coming to Florida to do?
Yeah, I'm sure this has nothing to do with theme parks or resorts the size of Manhattan. It could have gone anywhere. I'm sure Texas and NY were close contenders to WDW when they were deciding where to put this thing.
Anyway, done wasting my time - feel free to have the last word if you want and as you put it, tear this down, too.
Have fun!
*Understanding that concept makes a lot of things make more sense - like the initial launch of the Apple watch including a gold-alloy version starting at $10,000 that most of their stores didn't carry, which you had to make an appointment to even see, and which they scrapped once it had served its intended purpose.
In the case of WDW, and ways they already do this, the base single day ticket price is the perfect anchor for comparing a longer stay visiting a Disney park vs leaving and visiting their competition during a trip to Florida because Disney has Universal pricing their single day tickets to compete with Disney's single day tickets but if you've got a length of stay pass, you know where that tipping point is where the Disney park admission drops like a rock in comparison.
Such ticket price differences may not be enough to deter the average person here but at the same time, very few people on this forum pay single-day face value for their admission to WDW parks though it's seldom discussed.
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