Rumor Star Tours AND Buzz Lightyear on their way out?

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
That's interesting, and just looking at this area of the park from above it seems to all check out. The impact to the rest of the park during construction would be dramatic to say the least, and potentially catastrophic.

I remember when New New Tomorrowland was under construction in 1997-98 and it was a horrible maze of walls, dead-ends, and frustrated crowds just trying to get to Space Mountain or Fantasyland or anywhere but that rats den of construction. And that was almost 30 years ago when the park attendance was much lower and the crowding levels in the park were much less.

View attachment 729630

Today, it would be a disaster at best and a serious safety hazard at worst to try that type of land-closing construction.

And all that construction in 1997-98 was only trying to reskin and repaint the existing facilities that were already there. They didn't build anything new for that miserable Paul Pressler failure of a remake. There are McMansion kitchen remodels that are more impressive than New New Tomorrowland's paint job project was in '97.

Here's the view from above. Now imagine trying to shut down all this park real estate and infrastructure, in whole or in parts, for several years at a time for a full and proper Tomorrowland remake. While losing major ride capacity, dining capacity, and pedestrian traffic capacity.

Closing this must terrify what's left of the management in TDA who is still knowledgeable about theme park operations. :eek:

View attachment 729628
Good thing they built Galaxy's Edge to soak up the crowds.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Any major construction project would cause headaches for park ops - so no need to worry. The land is large enough to do it in phases. They did it for DCA, they can certainly do it for DL.

There are things they could easily do to alleviate congestion... just depends if they actually care. Temporary walkways between Main Street and Space Mountain are plausible.
 

KCheatle

Well-Known Member
It's my understanding that the major issue with a re-do of Tomorrowland is the requirement to bring things up to new codes. I've heard/read with the peoplemover, they would have to gut the buildings it travels through because there needs to be an exit at all times in case the ride stops, and the buildings it travels through don't have that and they can't easily retrofit one in to be compliant. It sounds like they would need to bring many signicant structures down to the studs to do any serious re-do of that land, and I have to imagine that's cost prohibitive.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
It's my understanding that the major issue with a re-do of Tomorrowland is the requirement to bring things up to new codes. I've heard/read with the peoplemover, they would have to gut the buildings it travels through because there needs to be an exit at all times in case the ride stops, and the buildings it travels through don't have that and they can't easily retrofit one in to be compliant. It sounds like they would need to bring many signicant structures down to the studs to do any serious re-do of that land, and I have to imagine that's cost prohibitive.
What do they expect? These buildings are over fifty years old. They don't want to do a "The Old House" on the existing buildings. Why not level them and start over? Why do we need to be stuck with outdated and unsafe buildings from 60s? That is calling being super cheap in the face of guest safety. The built custom brand new stuff for Galaxy's Edge. Why can't Tomorrowland be derezzed and something new built?

Of course they can't even bother to finish the Tomorrowland entrance which makes me wonder if something completely different is coming in ten years.
 

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
The issues with Tomorrowland essentially come down to four things...

  • Its infrastructure is heavily interconnected, so it's not feasible to redo it in small pieces
  • Redoing it in one giant swoop is an operational nightmare scenario since, as highlighted in earlier posts, it will require shuttering essentially 1/3 of the park for a prolonged period of time
  • Cal OSHA regs will hit a Tomorrowland redo harder than they've ever hit any Disneyland project before due to the age of the buildings and the type of infrastructure involved
  • Frankly, nobody in TDA can figure out or agree upon what a next-gen Tomorrowland should be to begin with
 
Last edited:

J4546

Well-Known Member
That's interesting, and just looking at this area of the park from above it seems to all check out. The impact to the rest of the park during construction would be dramatic to say the least, and potentially catastrophic.

I remember when New New Tomorrowland was under construction in 1997-98 and it was a horrible maze of walls, dead-ends, and frustrated crowds just trying to get to Space Mountain or Fantasyland or anywhere but that rats den of construction. And that was almost 30 years ago when the park attendance was much lower and the crowding levels in the park were much less.

View attachment 729630

Today, it would be a disaster at best and a serious safety hazard at worst to try that type of land-closing construction.

And all that construction in 1997-98 was only trying to reskin and repaint the existing facilities that were already there. They didn't build anything new for that miserable Paul Pressler failure of a remake. There are McMansion kitchen remodels that are more impressive than New New Tomorrowland's paint job project was in '97.

Here's the view from above. Now imagine trying to shut down all this park real estate and infrastructure, in whole or in parts, for several years at a time for a full and proper Tomorrowland remake. While losing major ride capacity, dining capacity, and pedestrian traffic capacity.

Closing this must terrify what's left of the management in TDA who is still knowledgeable about theme park operations. :eek:

View attachment 729628
even with that entire area walled off and closed, i still think DL would be better than any other US park
 

CHOX

Well-Known Member
Can anyone confirm that rumor that if they were going to redo the People Mover track they’d need to put staircase and elevators every 12 feet to stay compliant?

Don’t get me wrong, I know it would have to have work done, but this one always struck me as one of those very unrealistic rumors that people on Rat Chat heard 20 years and run with. Like the rumor that men would swim out to the mermaids, give me a break.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
What do they expect? These buildings are over fifty years old. They don't want to do a "The Old House" on the existing buildings. Why not level them and start over? Why do we need to be stuck with outdated and unsafe buildings from 60s?

It's even worse than that. The main fairway of Tomorrowland's buildings are still from 1955. :eek:

They kept their frames and footprints largely intact in 1966 during construction of New Tomorrowland, and just reskinned them for 1967's rides and shops.

The buildings that Buzz Lightyear, Star Tours, and Star Trader are in turn 68 years old next week. They were built in early 1955 in a rush trying to get the park open by July.

Here's a construction shot of New Tomorrowland in 1966. They are saving the original 1955 American Motors Circarama and Art Corner building to be turned into the Bell System's larger CircleVision exhibit/theater complex, which then became the Rocket Rods pre-show in 1997, which then became Buzz Lightyear in 2005 while keeping the same 1955 building frame and roofline and footprint intact. The only true from-scratch construction in 1966 on this flank was for Tomorrowland Terrace and it's underground stage entrance.

KTMIUSA_Dev_NewT_NX.jpg


On the backside of the American Motors theater in 1966, between the Matterhorn and Tomorrowland, they are just going to tack on the upcoming Goodyear PeopleMover track to its northern flank and then shoot the PeopleMover through the original lobby building and out towards the Plaza.

KTMIUSA_Dev_NewT_NY.jpg


Across the way from the American Motors/Bell System theater complex, through all the smog, you can see they've kept the original 1955 display building that housed 20,000 Leagues, Monsanto Hall of Chemistry, Dutch Boy Color Gallery, etc. They are using that original 1955 framing and footprint to contain the new Monsanto Adventure Thru (No one caught that in editing?) Inner Space complex, and the big new Character Shop, plus threading the PeopleMover tracks along the backside of the 1955 structure for 1967. This 1955 building and much of its framework and footprint remain today in 2023 as Star Tours and the Star Trader.

CTMIUSA_126_Dev_NLL.jpg


From real satellite images today, not that phony Space Station X-1 stuff, you can still see the original 1955 circular roof form of the American Motors CirCarAma theater. The construction of Star Tours in 1986 used new roofing elevations, so at least the roof on that side of the land is only from the Reagan Administration and not the Eisenhower Administration.

68 Happy Years.jpg


And finally, a smoggy aerial shot of 1966 construction showing those original 1955 buildings retained while New Tomorrowland 1967 gets built around them. Tomorrowland 2023 may be in a very sad state of affairs, but at least we got rid of the smog 30 years ago. So the exotic future of the 21st century isn't entirely a total loss for Americans, it's just Tomorrowland really.

43c9875e76510242a706a0bcd8ae2785.png
 
Last edited:

milordsloth

Well-Known Member
Can anyone confirm that rumor that if they were going to redo the People Mover track they’d need to put staircase and elevators every 12 feet to stay compliant?

Don’t get me wrong, I know it would have to have work done, but this one always struck me as one of those very unrealistic rumors that people on Rat Chat heard 20 years and run with. Like the rumor that men would swim out to the mermaids, give me a break.
Having a staircase or elevator every 12ft for emergency egress makes no sense at all. I'm not an expert, but I do work in construction, and would guess a means of egress would be needed every 100 or 200 ft.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Having a staircase or elevator every 12ft for emergency egress makes no sense at all. I'm not an expert, but I do work in construction, and would guess a means of egress would be needed every 100 or 200 ft.

Agreed. Just look at any modern airport train or elevated transit system, and you see emergency egress systems every few hundred feet.

But every 12 feet? Nope.

Those pictures of Tomorrowland construction remind me of an article that interviewed Disneyland's first official photographer that worked there for several decades. When he was asked what could be difficult about photographing Disneyland back then, he said "Smog".

He was constantly having to airbrush and temper his photographs of Disneyland, even those at relatively short distance like the amateur shots above someone took in 1966, to remove the smog in the air that ruined the shot or obscured mid-range details. And showing anything more than a mile away from the park as a backdrop was often impossible.

Can you imagine how jealous a 20th century photographer would be if he showed up today where you get days like this now?

disney+paradise+pier+hotel+review+room+view+1.jpeg
 

CHOX

Well-Known Member
Having a staircase or elevator every 12ft for emergency egress makes no sense at all. I'm not an expert, but I do work in construction, and would guess a means of egress would be needed every 100 or 200 ft.

That’s what I thought. We need to shame Rat Chatters and Disney bloggers for repeating stupid crap.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Agreed. Just look at any modern airport train or elevated transit system, and you see emergency egress systems every few hundred feet.

But every 12 feet? Nope.

Those pictures of Tomorrowland construction remind me of an article that interviewed Disneyland's first official photographer that worked there for several decades. When he was asked what could be difficult about photographing Disneyland back then, he said "Smog".

He was constantly having to airbrush and temper his photographs of Disneyland, even those at relatively short distance like the amateur shots above someone took in 1966, to remove the smog in the air that ruined the shot or obscured mid-range details. And showing anything more than a mile away from the park as a backdrop was often impossible.

Can you imagine how jealous a 20th century photographer would be if he showed up today where you get days like this now?
Didn't Mission to Mars say we eliminated smog in 1987?
 

NobodyElse

Well-Known Member
And finally, a smoggy aerial shot of 1966 construction showing those original 1955 buildings retained while New Tomorrowland 1967 gets built around them. Tomorrowland 2023 may be in a very sad state of affairs, but at least we got rid of the smog 30 years ago. So the exotic future of the 21st century isn't entirely a total loss for Americans, it's just Tomorrowland really.

43c9875e76510242a706a0bcd8ae2785.png

Perhaps one of these guys took that shot?
1689295640048.png
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Didn't Mission to Mars say we eliminated smog in 1987?

I think they did, actually. That was a very funny line in the 1950's. 🤣

They only missed it by about 10 years. The last Stage 3 Smog Alert (Google that, kids) was in the early 1990's according to the LA Times. The last Smog Alert of any kind was in the late 1990's.

They don't even have Smog Alerts any more in SoCal. If you told a 4th grade class today that recess was cancelled because of a Smog Alert, they would have no idea what you were talking about. Even a college class wouldn't know.
 
Last edited:

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Didn't Mission to Mars say we eliminated smog in 1987?

I found it. God bless YouTube.

The smog reference was from the original TWA Rocket To The Moon narration from 1955 to 1962. That version of the attraction, which laid out that you were in the year 1986 when Trans World Airlines operated passenger flights to the moon, mentions that smog, AKA a "great hazard to happiness and health was eliminated about 15 years ago", which would place the smog elimination in the early 1970's. A good 25 years too early to be fully realized, but it's the thought that counts.

Honestly, do kids today not understand how much more beautiful and healthy our world has become in the last 50 years? 🤔

 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I knew I heard that from somewhere.

But you're right about the specific "1987" mention. I have no memory of Flight To The Moon (whether sponsored by TWA or later Douglas), but I do remember the second version of Flight To The Moon by McDonnel-Douglas and then later Mission To Mars.

I'm thinking there must have been a mention of smog going away by "1987" in that second version that ran from 1967 to 1974, either in the pre-show presented live by the hostess or from the animatronic Mr. Johnson, or in the cabin narration itself from our captain.

I'll dig around some more. I think you are remembering correctly about a specific mention of "1987".
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom