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SPOILERS: Star Wars' ANDOR

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
Sad to say this didn’t grip me at all. If it wasn’t star wars I would probably have given up before the end but I did watch it through to the end.

For me it was very slow and all over the place and too slow. It just didn’t feel star wars to me, even coruscant lacked the energy it has in the prequels and animation.

A shorter series in a star wars prison could have been interesting or a game of cards type show about the goings on at coruscant. I also think a Jyn Erso series would be more interesting
 

Screamface

Well-Known Member
Something else to consider is that if someone was watching The Mandolorian and you walked in the room knowing nothing about it, during a random episode. You'd be able to understand and enjoy. With Andor that wouldn't be the case.

Not that this is a bad thing. Mando just has a much wider and easier entry point.

Andor will age well, and draw a larger audience now that it is all up and easier to consume.

In some fringe Star Wars places of discussions, I am seeing some of the most toxic talk I have ever seen around Star Wars. I mean actually toxic, not the dumb label that would have been given to me for thinking TLJ was bad and discussing the endless reasons why online. People basically arguing even if Andor is good, you should not be watching and Star Wars is dead. I assume it's just a few noisey always online nerds.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
I stay away from Star Wars based forums because they are extremely toxic. Even the toy collecting ones aren't as much fun as they used to be. Despite Disney's best efforts, Star Wars isn't dead. It is drowning while Disney concentrates on replacing all of its Marvel super heroes with women. At least it isn't the Muppets or classic Disney that are dead at the bottom of the pool. It really needs a good theatrical movie made by someone that has an idea what Star Wars is.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Despite Disney's best efforts, Star Wars isn't dead.
Agreed. It will be an uphill battle for sure. Unfortunately there are a lot of fans who are not going to give it a chance until management makes a change.
It really needs a good theatrical movie made by someone that has an idea what Star Wars is.
Yes. They probably need to go 3 or 400yrs into the future or all the way back to knights of the old republic. Give yourself a clean sleight, with none of the Skywalker connection. But realistically if it's a great story, that has the star wars look and feel, people will see it. But don't expect 2 billion on the next release. A lot of people are at the point of prove it to me, before they jump back in 100%.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Disney tries to follow the example Roger Corman used for finding new talent. Corman would put someone with no experience in charge of one his movies and hope it works out. Surprising, a lot of talented people started with Corman. James Cameron was just a model maker for Corman. Jack Nicolson had bit parts in Corman movies.

The difference is Corman would give the team about a $50k to make the movie while Disney gives them $200 million dollars. Most of that money seems to get mismanaged by inexperienced movie directors with big heads. See the Phil Lord/Chris Miller on Solo.

I want to see Disney/Lucasfilm give command to someone that knows Star Wars and give that person a clean slate to work with.
 

Screamface

Well-Known Member
I stay away from Star Wars based forums because they are extremely toxic. Even the toy collecting ones aren't as much fun as they used to be. Despite Disney's best efforts, Star Wars isn't dead. It is drowning while Disney concentrates on replacing all of its Marvel super heroes with women. At least it isn't the Muppets or classic Disney that are dead at the bottom of the pool.
Bounding into Comics gave the second half of Andor a rating of 2/10. What an absolute joke, I wouldn't dignify or waste my time reading it but I did skim it. It's just such a bad-faith review. Basically just calling everything bad. "This isn't Star Wars." Well it is to me.

Imagine pretending Kenobi was better than Andor.
lol

I do know people who liked Kenobi, but they're not big fans, mainly watch Star Wars with their kids, clone wars etc. Enjoy it.

It really needs a good theatrical movie made by someone that has an idea what Star Wars is.

Do you think if Avatar 2 is a massive success, it'll have any influence on what they want to do with Star Wars theatrically?
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Bounding into Comics gave the second half of Andor a rating of 2/10. What an absolute joke, I wouldn't dignify or waste my time reading it but I did skim it. It's just such a bad-faith review. Basically just calling everything bad. "This isn't Star Wars." Well it is to me.

Imagine pretending Kenobi was better than Andor.
lol

I do know people who liked Kenobi, but they're not big fans, mainly watch Star Wars with their kids, clone wars etc. Enjoy it.



Do you think if Avatar 2 is a massive success, it'll have any influence on what they want to do with Star Wars theatrically?
If Avatar 2 was a massive success, it would change a lot of movie paradigms. I think Disney would try to duplicate the success with Star Wars. I just don't think it will be a massive success even though I am planning on seeing it.

Andor is like when they made the darker version of Battlestar Galactica. They took all the action and fun out of it to make an adult sci-fi drama.
 

Screamface

Well-Known Member
If Avatar 2 was a massive success, it would change a lot of movie paradigms. I think Disney would try to duplicate the success with Star Wars. I just don't think it will be a massive success even though I am planning on seeing it.
Whether Avatar 2 is called a massive success, versus if it actually is will be the thing to pay attention to.

Andor is like when they made the darker version of Battlestar Galactica. They took all the action and fun out of it to make an adult sci-fi drama.

There's a narrative around the prequels, that fans of the originals didn't like them because they were for kids, failing to ignore the originals were for kids. It's got some truth to it, but not entirely true.

I think Star Wars, especially now has to try and cater for people who are adults and grew up on it. While shows like The Mandolorian can strike a balance. They need to sort out what section of the audience's new material is for.

What is for everyone, what should be more for kids, and what should be more for adults.

I think when they don't, it's easy to fall back on, it's for kids also, it doesn't matter, space wizards, anything can happen, it's magic!

Just look at Obi-Wan, the audience for that should have been the kids who grew up on the prequels and are now adults. It had some serious themes, but it got ruined by being childish rubbish at times, where the writing and direction didn't matter.
 

mysto

Well-Known Member
The Star Wars universe can host many different kinds of stories told in many different styles. Andor is one of them.

I really liked Obi-Wan, I didn't really pay attention to whether it's better or worse than other stories or productions. More please.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Whether Avatar 2 is called a massive success, versus if it actually is will be the thing to pay attention to.



There's a narrative around the prequels, that fans of the originals didn't like them because they were for kids, failing to ignore the originals were for kids. It's got some truth to it, but not entirely true.

I think Star Wars, especially now has to try and cater for people who are adults and grew up on it. While shows like The Mandolorian can strike a balance. They need to sort out what section of the audience's new material is for.

What is for everyone, what should be more for kids, and what should be more for adults.

I think when they don't, it's easy to fall back on, it's for kids also, it doesn't matter, space wizards, anything can happen, it's magic!

Just look at Obi-Wan, the audience for that should have been the kids who grew up on the prequels and are now adults. It had some serious themes, but it got ruined by being childish rubbish at times, where the writing and direction didn't matter.
You've got some very valid points. Andor is a different kind of Star Wars. It is more adult oriented but I think at the same time could have used more action. This is a war after all. There is so much more they could have done with the character and the situations he got in. It felt like a lot of setup but wasn't resolved. I know there is a second season. It just felt like it could be any low budget sci-fi show. It felt like a waste of potential.

I think Obi-Wan was disappointing because of the third sister and the Inquisitors. That chick could take a lightsaber to the gut twice and survive. Her character just felt underdeveloped and she wasn't a good actress. The problem is the Inquisitors had to end up in a certain position because of what was setup in Rebels. There isn't much the writers can do with those characters when you only have one Jedi running around. Leia and Obi-Wan were ok and it had some nice Vader fights. It just seemed the two weakest actors (third sister and Leia) had to carry too much of the show.

I maintain that good Star Wars can be found in episodes of the Clone Wars and Rebels. They were originally designed for kids but like Batman the animated series became more adult oriented in later episodes. I think Dave Filoni had the right balance of plot and action in those shows. These shows just feel uneven.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
The Star Wars universe can host many different kinds of stories told in many different styles. Andor is one of them.

I really liked Obi-Wan, I didn't really pay attention to whether it's better or worse than other stories or productions. More please.
Exactly, not everything in Star Wars has to be about "Space Monks with Laser Swords".
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
I think Obi-Wan was disappointing because of the third sister and the Inquisitors. That chick could take a lightsaber to the gut twice and survive. Her character just felt underdeveloped and she wasn't a good actress. The problem is the Inquisitors had to end up in a certain position because of what was setup in Rebels. There isn't much the writers can do with those characters when you only have one Jedi running around. Leia and Obi-Wan were ok and it had some nice Vader fights. It just seemed the two weakest actors (third sister and Leia) had to carry too much of the show.

Obi Wan was just a dumpster fire of a show. The implication that there were Imperial Inquisitors hunting Jedi for years- but that Obi Wan 'cut himself off' from the force and buried his lightsaber when he should be keeping an eye on Luke was asinine.

Then there was the Princess Leia being babysitted storyline that was poorly executed.

Then there was the horrible acting for the main inquisitor- that they tried to give a redemption ark before having her stay bad. It was confusing and unnecessary.

It would have been better to just have the show focus around the Inquisitors learning Obi Wan is on Tattooine and Obi Wan trying to defend himself. And he didn't need to meet Darth Vader in the show.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Whether Avatar 2 is called a massive success, versus if it actually is will be the thing to pay attention to.



There's a narrative around the prequels, that fans of the originals didn't like them because they were for kids, failing to ignore the originals were for kids. It's got some truth to it, but not entirely true.

I think Star Wars, especially now has to try and cater for people who are adults and grew up on it. While shows like The Mandolorian can strike a balance. They need to sort out what section of the audience's new material is for.

What is for everyone, what should be more for kids, and what should be more for adults.

I think when they don't, it's easy to fall back on, it's for kids also, it doesn't matter, space wizards, anything can happen, it's magic!

Just look at Obi-Wan, the audience for that should have been the kids who grew up on the prequels and are now adults. It had some serious themes, but it got ruined by being childish rubbish at times, where the writing and direction didn't matter.
The thing is I liked the prequels. They did what they were suppose to do by setting up the original trilogy. However I would have ordered the events a little differently. I think the prequels should have centered around Obi-Wan making him more of a tragic character.. I would have kept Qui-Gon alive and have him turn to the dark side by becoming the Count Dooku character. That way Obi-Wan looses both his master and his apprentice to the dark side. He couldn't redeem either one. Luke would have been his shot at redemption.

The first episode would have been the start of the Clone Wars and the fall of Qui-Gon. The second would have had Obi-Wan and Anakin fighting in the Clone Wars. The third is the fall of Anakin and the end of the Clone Wars.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
The thing is I liked the prequels. They did what they were suppose to do by setting up the original trilogy. However I would have ordered the events a little differently. I think the prequels should have centered around Obi-Wan making him more of a tragic character.. I would have kept Qui-Gon alive and have him turn to the dark side by becoming the Count Dooku character. That way Obi-Wan looses both his master and his apprentice to the dark side. He couldn't redeem either one. Luke would have been his shot at redemption.

The first episode would have been the start of the Clone Wars and the fall of Qui-Gon. The second would have had Obi-Wan and Anakin fighting in the Clone Wars. The third is the fall of Anakin and the end of the Clone Wars.
Yes, and the big difference between the prequels and the sequels are, the prequels are a whole story. Sure the prequels had some issues. But they also had a thought out story. The sequels were a hodgepodge of ideas with no coherent throughput. You had some cool star wars ideas and imagery but it wasn't enough to overcome its flaws. While the prequels had some stiff acting and the CG doesn't hold up all that great, and well, Jar Jar... It had some of the best saber fights, a coherent story that gets you from point A to point B. You also had fantastic performances by Ewan, Ian and Christopher Lee.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
iu
 

Screamface

Well-Known Member
You've got some very valid points. Andor is a different kind of Star Wars. It is more adult oriented but I think at the same time could have used more action. This is a war after all. There is so much more they could have done with the character and the situations he got in. It felt like a lot of setup but wasn't resolved. I know there is a second season. It just felt like it could be any low budget sci-fi show. It felt like a waste of potential.
It is all set up. I assume the next season will be more action and rebel spy mission related. The story Andor was telling, where the characters are didn't need a big action scene every episode though. That would have worked against the story, but I get the complaint.

I think Obi-Wan was disappointing because of the third sister and the Inquisitors. That chick could take a lightsaber to the gut twice and survive. Her character just felt underdeveloped and she wasn't a good actress. The problem is the Inquisitors had to end up in a certain position because of what was setup in Rebels. There isn't much the writers can do with those characters when you only have one Jedi running around. Leia and Obi-Wan were ok and it had some nice Vader fights. It just seemed the two weakest actors (third sister and Leia) had to carry too much of the show.

It would be interesting to know if the character was originally written and conceived with the story she had. Or if she was just a badass, but it was demanded they try and add some sympathy and redemption. We all knew she was going to a twist like that from the trailer, which is an issue. There were some decent ideas in the series, but everything was underdone.

I would love to read the original movie script.

One stand out to be with Obi-Wan is that it didn't treat the Star Wars world as if it is real. How could they have done that silly base infiltration and escape if they had watched Rogue One?


I maintain that good Star Wars can be found in episodes of the Clone Wars and Rebels. They were originally designed for kids but like Batman the animated series became more adult oriented in later episodes. I think Dave Filoni had the right balance of plot and action in those shows. These shows just feel uneven.

It's such a waster opportunity that show. Missing the potential for some straight-up live-action Clone Wars with Obi-Wan and Anikan in the flash backs.

I wonder if this is another case of Disney deliberately wanting to get non-fans of the material to do the adaptions, where they simply don't understand what people want to see.

The first episode would have been the start of the Clone Wars and the fall of Qui-Gon. The second would have had Obi-Wan and Anakin fighting in the Clone Wars. The third is the fall of Anakin and the end of the Clone Wars.
The prequels could definitely have been better structures. After the sequels, I began to understand why George started with TPM.

While planning his trilogy, he must have found there was a need for an introductory story. ANH worked because it's a simple story, everything is new but now when doing bigger stories. There's more to set up. I'm not saying he couldn't have written something better to do this. It's more recognising the sequels needed a TPM film to explain was happening before starting its story. Which is probably while it went off the rails.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
It is all set up. I assume the next season will be more action and rebel spy mission related. The story Andor was telling, where the characters are didn't need a big action scene every episode though. That would have worked against the story, but I get the complaint.



It would be interesting to know if the character was originally written and conceived with the story she had. Or if she was just a badass, but it was demanded they try and add some sympathy and redemption. We all knew she was going to a twist like that from the trailer, which is an issue. There were some decent ideas in the series, but everything was underdone.

I would love to read the original movie script.

One stand out to be with Obi-Wan is that it didn't treat the Star Wars world as if it is real. How could they have done that silly base infiltration and escape if they had watched Rogue One?




It's such a waster opportunity that show. Missing the potential for some straight-up live-action Clone Wars with Obi-Wan and Anikan in the flash backs.

I wonder if this is another case of Disney deliberately wanting to get non-fans of the material to do the adaptions, where they simply don't understand what people want to see.


The prequels could definitely have been better structures. After the sequels, I began to understand why George started with TPM.

While planning his trilogy, he must have found there was a need for an introductory story. ANH worked because it's a simple story, everything is new but now when doing bigger stories. There's more to set up. I'm not saying he couldn't have written something better to do this. It's more recognising the sequels needed a TPM film to explain was happening before starting its story. Which is probably while it went off the rails.
Agreed. Live action Clone Wars flashbacks with Anakin and Obi-Wan would have been great to see but would probably break their CG budget. It could have explained Obi-Wan's PTSD. I just hope to see some missions the Rebel Alliance sends Andor on in the second season. Cloak & dagger stuff can be fun.

The Prequels weren't that bad. They told a beginning, middle and ending of a story arch but the structure could have been better. The sequels didn't tell any story. They had no idea where it was going and just checked off certain boxes. It just shows that it isn't easy to make a Star Wars trilogy.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
ANH worked because it's a simple story, everything is new but now when doing bigger stories. There's more to set up. I'm not saying he couldn't have written something better to do this.
Lucas needed better checks and balances during production of the prequels. If he had someone like Marcia Lucas or someone that wasn't him to be in the directors chair to help him reign things in, it would have really helped. It seemed to me he had too many yes men around him. He needed people to challenge him a bit.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Lucas needed better checks and balances during production of the prequels. If he had someone like Marcia Lucas or someone that wasn't him to be in the directors chair to help him reign things in, it would have really helped. It seemed to me he had too many yes men around him. He needed people to challenge him a bit.
Totally agree. She was the only one that could tell George no. Her editing really saved those movies. Too bad she wasn't available for Andor.
 

cookiee_munster

Well-Known Member
I didn't love Andor, and I didn't hate it either. I carried on watching out of interest, because compared to most of the Star Wars related media, this seemed very "grown up and serious" It reminded me a lot of all the political stuff that went on in the prequels that as a kid I'd completely switch off to. Back then, all I wanted was to see battles and lightsabers.

Season 1 has set the series up nicely to lead into something far more interesting for series 2. At least that's what I'm hoping for.
 

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