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SPOILERS: Falcons & the Winter Soldier Discussion / Reactions to Most Recent Episodes

MisterPenguin

Fully Pfizered!
Premium Member
Original Poster
Zemo in the ocean with super criminals...

Thunderbolts to compete with Suicide Squad?
All they have to do is fit that in somewhere in between: Loki, What if...? Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Spider-Man No Way Home, Doctor Strange 2, Thor 4, Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, Guardians 3, Guardians Holiday Special, Blade, Ant-Man 3, Deadpool 3, Fantastic Four, She-Hulk, Moon Knight, Secret Invasion, Ironheart, Armor Wars, Baby Groot, Loki 2, Wakanda, Echo, MODOK, and Hit Monkey.

Not to mention the 'Sonyverse MCU' movies.

And Young Avengers.

;)
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
All they have to do is fit that in somewhere in between: Loki, What if...? Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Spider-Man No Way Home, Doctor Strange 2, Thor 4, Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, Guardians 3, Guardians Holiday Special, Blade, Ant-Man 3, Deadpool 3, Fantastic Four, She-Hulk, Moon Knight, Secret Invasion, Ironheart, Armor Wars, Baby Groot, Loki 2, Wakanda, Echo, MODOK, and Hit Monkey.

Not to mention the 'Sonyverse MCU' movies.

And Young Avengers.

;)
Phase 5 - Villains (sounds up Disney’s alley)
 

waltography

Well-Known Member
Oh boy, what a finale. Super satisfying and tied things up kind of how I expected. Some random thoughts:

  • Two moments made me cry - Sam showing Isaiah the section dedicated to him, and when Bucky told Yori what happened to his son. It also felt really good to see Bucky finally having some semblance of peace.
  • I can't wait to see Sharon make an absolute mess as the Power Broker now that she's been pardoned. Honestly kind of rooting for her at this point. 😂
  • Wyatt Russel's gonna kill it as US Agent. Perfectly toe-ing the line of anti-hero and villain.
  • If there's one critique I have, I don't think they really knew what to do with Karli in the end; it was just a giant game of cat and mouse at the end that didn't really feel all that satisfying to watch, and I felt frustrated more than sad they had Sharon kill her. Shame, especially since the actress is very good.
Can't wait for Season 2! (...which I'm expecting they'll rename, right? 😂)
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
The best part of this show was the concept of half the population suddenly reappearing after 5 years of adapting to half the numbers. Food, water, shelter, jobs, education, transportation, health care...etc. etc. etc. just wouldn't be there. It would become a them vs us situation for sure and a lot of groups would rise up everywhere. There's a gray moral area put on a very hypothetical situation.
 

NateD1226

Well-Known Member
Such a great finale! Sam's new suit is so amazing and his speech to the senators was very impactful. That scene with Isaiah at the end really made me tear up. It was such an amazing scene and is really a highlight of the whole show. As stated in an earlier post, Karli's fate was the big problem with the finale. She was screaming and kicking Sam and then like 2 seconds later she just says sorry right before she dies? It was really weird and I really wished they would have handled her character better. It was a rough scene to watch. However, the whole show was amazing and really had some great moments. When are we gonna change the title to this thread to Captain America and The Winter Soldier ;)
 

Mousertainment

Well-Known Member
^ I still hope there is more to the Sharon story as that 'reveal' was the most *shrug* moment for me of the episode. (Though I do wonder if it would have had more resonance if this show had aired before WandaVision - and if that would have made the Agatha reveal seem to be the redundant one.)

Overall - I cheered a lot - literally whooped out loud a couple of times (first appearance in the suit, the 'no that's Captain America' line, and the updated title in the credits amongst others). Teared up several times at the story and perspectives being shared here and thinking about how truly important representation is for people. And also just how special Sam is as a character. I love how much he brings his counseling skills and understanding to situations and how clearly that is respected and portrayed as one of his strengths.

Even though this was clearly Sam's story, I'm glad that Bucky got some resolution throughout, both in relation to his counseling from Sam and taking his advice.

Loved the Zemo moment of course - that little self-satisfied smile of his. Man, do I love Zemo now! 😍

Throughout the John Walker storyline in this episode, I was literally shouting at my TV: "Heroes save people, John! They don't chase the bad guy! Make the right choice!" But while he eventually did, I think the ending of "I'm back!" shows that he's still too self-centered and insecure to truly be a hero. Yet. Especially with Val's influence.

I'd love to see a second season of this, but think that's less likely with the news that the showrunner is writing a Cap movie for Sam. I'm okay with saving Zemo for his own potential Thunderbolts show - because at this point I'd rather have more Zemo than less. But I hope Bucky will be involved in the film if they don't get a second season of the show.
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
So I thought the show was pretty good series with a great finale. Kind of the opposite of what I thought of wandavision. I thought this tied up well while still having a lot open for more movies and shows. I thought the way Walker was done was great and I really like Val. And I'll fully admit I thought Bucky should have gotten the shield in End Game, but they made a believer out of me with Sam having it this last episode.
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
I didn't like how Karli's last line was just "I'm sorry." She was just trying to kill people and was happy to die for her cause...yet now she is sorry? She should be defiant until the end and saying something about her followers will complete the plan for her.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I felt pretty detached by the end of the show. Seems too focused on setting up new characters and expanding the portfolio.

I have no interest or intrigue for val who just shows up...
the sharon as power broker... struggling to care.
Guys battle super villians and face armies of people with guns... and completely cracks when a mortal finally dies? Not really getting attachment from me

I do think the gritty topic of the GRC and the blip returners was an interesting environment to work within. I liked how they explored how falcon had to try to live a mortals life, with real things like bills and family.

Should have just renamed bucky to “baggage” as that seemed to be his main purpose in this story. He’s another plot that just felt meh. I mean, what kind of resolution was that with the old asian guy... a few tears and thats it?

Played out a lot more like some of the shallower comic arcs to me. Lots of appearances, universe building, but lacking deep attachment.

Both this and WV have been entertaining fillers... but even my kid who watches everything marvel with me wasn’t hooked. I don’t see a need to push these last two series on people. These feel like research projects.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I'm all in on Capt America 4 w/ Sam. Another worthy entry into the MCU.

Whoever said the MCU was done after End Game doesn't understand the huge bunch of stories they can tell with these characters.

In Feige we trust!
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
The final was serviceable but just kinda "there" for me. I actually like these characters and was engaged in Sam and Bucky's evolution in the series but the main narrative of the Flag Smashers was just so uneven. I actually wonder about the specifics of the initial plot - supposedly there was some sort of virus and the Flag Smashers were involved in getting medicines or vaccines for it but it was reshot in light of COVID - if that perhaps might have been more engaging that what we ended up getting. The idea of how the Blip affected so many people who were displaced is an interesting premise but I think we needed more "show don't tell" to be invested in it.

I thought John Walker was an awesome character and well played and I look forward to seeing US Agent going forward. Really felt like the proper mix of noble intentions but enough cockiness to be off putting and then just being pushed over the edge to villain. But a nice quasi-redemption with saving the truck.

Val is intriguing. Definitely increases my interest in Black Widow.

Not a fan of the Sharon story. The heel turn just doesn't seem earned compared to the girl who stood up to Hydra ("Captain's orders") and stole the equipment for Cap/Falcon in Civil War. I don't mind some morally gray stuff but the post-credit seemed too downright evil. I know there is the strong theory going around about
her character being a Skrull impersonating her
and I would probably like that to be true.

Zemo was great in this series even if it was a bit of a retcon. I'd love to see him do a Masters of Evil, but working with superpowered folks doesn't seem to fit his motivations in the MCU.

Falcon's speech was good in principle but kinda dragged on and got too preachy. I do like that they showed him being an worthy person to carry the shield and name but having his positive qualities being distinct from Steve. Too much time with the darn boat though - some background was good but way too much of the overall run time.

I felt they got too bogged down in social issues at times, but they ending with Isiah was heartwarming. I know many would disagree but I like the MCU being more idealistic and "fun" than focusing on real problems. I watch this stuff to get away from the negativity of everyday life and see a world that is more positive where "good" wins over "evil".

Anyhow, my biggest complaint is really how long the wait is until Loki. I loved WandaVision and feel like Loki will be more up my alley in terms of captivating my interested than FatWS. I would start watching WV as soon as I woke up on Fridays, but would just wait until the evening to watch FatWS as I just was not as excited for each episode.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Also, while I would certainly watch and look forward to a movie which seems like is the plan, I think I'd rather see a second season of the show. Now with Sam and Bucky more comfortable in their roles as heroes, it would be good for them to just be kicking butt and taking names of bad guys. Would they do both Cap 4 and another season? With the movie likely being so far away, they'd pretty much have to do a second season first and I wonder if they would.
 

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