News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[EagleScout610]

I urge those people to watch a POV of Splash Mountain on YouTube. Watch from exterior, through queue, through the attraction and then through the exit. It is quite possibly the most extensively themed attraction inside and out on property with exception of the newer attractions (namely Flight of Passage and Rise of the Resistance).

Even a "cheap" re-theme would be extraordinarily expensive. The attraction alone is half a mile long. Then you have to deal with the mountains of theming on the exterior.

I have no idea how they plan to do this at Magic Kingdom anytime soon. Seriously, no idea.

Heck, it was stated California was automatically down a year and half even if they rush as fast as they can. I can assume Orlando is a 2-3 year shutdown

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Heck, it was stated California was automatically down a year and half even if they rush as fast as they can. I can assume Orlando is a 2-3 year shutdown

If they take 3 years to do the attraction in Florida with a respectable budget, that's an attraction I will be excited to ride. The positive thing is they know the pressure is on; possibly more than ever before regarding an attraction.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I urge those people to watch a POV of Splash Mountain on YouTube. Watch from exterior, through queue, through the attraction and then through the exit. It is quite possibly the most extensively themed attraction inside and out on property with exception of the newer attractions (namely Flight of Passage and Rise of the Resistance).

Even a "cheap" re-theme would be extraordinarily expensive. The attraction alone is half a mile long. Then you have to deal with the mountains of theming on the exterior.

I have no idea how they plan to do this at Magic Kingdom anytime soon. Seriously, no idea.

I guess once they finish the current in progress projects, and then allow the 50th anniversary to finish that will be around early-2023. But then that is busy season. So I can see them closing it after the 2023 holidays in January 2024 to start the re-theme. I suppose finances should allow for it by then.

I almost feel it would be cheaper for Disney to re tell the story in a more positive light.

 

[LittleBuford]

I almost feel it would be cheaper for Disney to re tell the story in a more positive light.

Song of the South? That ship has sailed.

 

[doctornick]

I almost feel it would be cheaper for Disney to re tell the story in a more positive light.

Well it would certainly be cheaper to just make a Disney+ series based on the Br’er characters fully detached from SotS.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I almost feel it would be cheaper for Disney to re tell the story in a more positive light.

Mind boggling to me why they wouldn't take that route from the getgo. Aside from inaccurate portray's in SOTS, there is a lot of good in SOTS; particularly the end scene which for its time was an extraordinarily rare sight.

It also would save Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah from the whole ordeal; who's future is apparently grim or at best unknown.

Song of the South? That ship has sailed.

Yup, their decision was permanent for sure.

 

[JustInTime]

I almost feel it would be cheaper for Disney to re tell the story in a more positive light.

Agreed.

 

[The Aracuan Bird]

Song of the South? That ship has sailed.

As far as I’m aware, the story of “Song of the South” was never told on the ride, as that was an original plot. I don’t think there’s much value in retelling that plot.

What they told on the ride was an adaptation of something they didn’t come up with, that was 200 years old by the time they made the ride. There’s more value in retelling that, but if they don’t want to, they should probably set the record straight because it seems like a lot of people are going to get the wrong idea if anyone else wants to respectfully retell those stories.

 

[LittleBuford]

As far as I’m aware, the story of “Song of the South” was never told on the ride, as that was an original plot. I don’t think there’s much value in retelling that plot.

What they told on the ride was an adaptation of something they didn’t come up with, that was 200 years old by the time they made the ride. There’s more value in retelling that, but if they don’t want to, they should probably set the record straight because it seems like a lot of people are going to get the wrong idea if anyone else wants to respectfully retell those stories.

Splash Mountain is based on the animated sequences of Song of the South, not on the original folktales retold by Joel Chandler Harris. They would never have themed the ride as they did had Song of the South not existed (and had they not wanted to recycle a bunch of America Sings animatronics). Before the retheme was announced last year, I don’t recall a single person ever suggesting that Splash Mountain had the potential to educate the masses about African(-American) folklore. It’s a pretty untenable idea, as farfetched as claiming that the Haunted Mansion offers an instructive perspective on Christian eschatology.

 

[The Aracuan Bird]

Splash Mountain is based on the animated sequences of Song of the South, not on the original folktales retold by Joel Chandler Harris. They would never have themed the ride as they did had Song of the South not existed (and had they not wanted to recycle a bunch of America Sings animatronics). Before the retheme was announced last year, I don’t recall a single person ever suggesting that Splash Mountain had the potential to educate the masses about African(-American) folklore. It’s a pretty untenable idea, as farfetched as claiming that the Haunted Mansion offers an instructive perspective on Christian eschatology.

That’s a pretty big leap of a comparison. A straw man perhaps? It was an adaptation, of an adaptation, of an adaptation, of a collection of stories. But the base content of the stories, from the research I’ve done, is largely the same. Not something they created specifically for the film. It would be like saying Disney’s Pinocchio isn’t an adaptation of “Pinocchio” the story. Or even more similar, saying that Disney’s Mr Toad segment isn’t an adaptation of the Wind and the Willows.

Haunted Mansion on the other hand was a completely original story Disney created. It contains the themes of death and ghosts, but it isn’t an adaptation of an existing story.

It’s clear that the company has no interest on educating anyone about anything these days. And that’s fine. It makes perfect sense to me that they want to get rid of this ride for that reason. But it seems a little irresponsible to not set the record straight when nobody that made the original mistake is even around anymore. It’s even weirder to see Disney fans bend over backward to defend them on this specific point.

They shouldn’t keep the ride, but two wrongs don’t make a right.

 

[Brer Penguin]

They've committed to a Splash Mountain overhaul, that's been stated. Changing surrounding theming is a bigger ask. The other issue is the facade and queue for Pirates doesn't exactly scream New Orleans either.

They wouldn't have to retheme that far. The "New Orleans Square" could start on the opposite side of the Caribbean Plaza arch and stretch to SM. They would just have to retheme Pecos Bills (on at least that side) and add some French Quarter style building facades where on the opposite side of the street (and I think add a beignet stand).

 

[Parker in NYC]

The day WDW gets this thing finished should coincide with their 60th. I just don't see it happening sooner.

 

[LittleBuford]

That’s a pretty big leap of a comparison.

Please disregard my Haunted Mansion comparison if it doesn't hold for you. My post still works without it.

It would be like saying Disney’s Pinocchio isn’t an adaptation of “Pinocchio” the story. Or even more similar, saying that Disney’s Mr Toad segment isn’t an adaptation of the Wind and the Willows.

No, it would be like saying that there would be no Disney theme-park attractions based on those stories had Disney not made film adaptations of them first. Splash Mountain's current theming would not have happened without the existence of Song of the South.

It’s clear that the company has no interest on educating anyone about anything these days. And that’s fine. It makes perfect sense to me that they want to get rid of this ride for that reason. But it seems a little irresponsible to not set the record straight when nobody that made the original mistake is even around anymore. It’s even weirder to see Disney fans bend over backward to defend them on this specific point.

How exactly is a log-flume ride the appropriate context in which to educate people about anything? What would "set[ting] the record straight" entail from your perspective?

It’s even weirder to see Disney fans bend over backward to defend them on this specific point.

Defend them on what point? Their decision to retheme the attraction, or their reluctance to revisit Song of the South? As regards the former, I don't so much defend it as understand it. I'm on record as saying that I love Splash Mountain in its current form and will be personally sad to see it go, but I also get why they're doing what they're doing and am excited to see the outcome. As for the latter, I don't think Disney has much to gain by trying to address or correct the wrongs of Song of the South, nor do I think they could succeed in such a project, though that's a debate for another thread anyway.

two wrongs don’t make a right.

I don't understand what wrong you're referring to.

 

[The Aracuan Bird]

Please disregard my Haunted Mansion comparison if it doesn't hold for you. My post still works without it.


No, it would be like saying that there would be no Disney theme-park attractions based on those stories had Disney not made film adaptations of them first. Splash Mountain's current theming would not have happened without the existence of Song of the South.


How exactly is a log-flume ride the appropriate context in which to educate people about anything? What would "set[ting] the record straight" entail from your perspective?


Defend them on what point? Their decision to retheme the attraction, or their reluctance to revisit Song of the South? As regards the former, I don't so much defend it as understand it. I'm on record as saying that I love Splash Mountain in its current form and will be personally sad to see it go, but I also get why they're doing what they're doing and am excited to see the outcome. As for the latter, I don't think Disney has much to gain by trying to address or correct the wrongs of Song of the South, nor do I think they could succeed in such a project, though that's a debate for another thread anyway.


I don't understand what wrong you're referring to.

1) The Haunted Mansion comparison doesn’t work.

2) We’re arguing where the story came from. The ride isn’t a retelling of Song of the South. It’s a retelling of the Brer Rabbit segments from that film, which were an adaptation of non-Disney stories. It’d be like referring to Mr Toad’s Wild Ride as an “Adventures of Ichabod and Toad” retelling.

3) They don’t have to make anything out of Brer Rabbit if they don’t want to. But from the way they’ve gone about this, and from what I’ve seen people react on social media (and here), people think the Brer Rabbit stories at their core are the issue. Setting the record straight would be publicly admitting that their decision shouldn’t be a model of how to treat the original stories, and that they personally just don’t care to deal with it.

4) Defend them and praise them for “not wanting to deal with it” proper. It’s understandable in a business sense, but people seem to be taking the personal approach to this matter.

5) Adapting the stories with stereotypes was wrong 1. Pretending like they didn’t happen at the expense of people that care for the roots is wrong 2. Disney version or not, people are never going to look at these characters the same way again because of this.

 

[The Aracuan Bird]

I will wholly admit that I’m no expert on this subject, nor do I really care much if the ride stays or goes. But I feel like I know enough to realize that the competing attitudes on this topic are pretty lame.

This is a business decision through and through. The moralistic side is complex. On one hand, it’s great that they are finally giving their black princess a ride. On the other hand, it’s not so great that they don’t care to fix what they caused with Song of the South (business wise it’s understandable).

 

[LittleBuford]

1) The Haunted Mansion comparison doesn’t work.

2) We’re arguing where the story came from. The ride isn’t a retelling of Song of the South. It’s a retelling of the Brer Rabbit segments from that film, which were an adaptation of non-Disney stories. It’d be like referring to Mr Toad’s Wild Ride as an “Adventures of Ichabod and Toad” retelling.

3) They don’t have to make anything out of Brer Rabbit if they don’t want to. But from the way they’ve gone about this, and from what I’ve seen people react on social media (and here), people think the Brer Rabbit stories at their core are the issue. Setting the record straight would be publicly admitting that their decision shouldn’t be a model of how to treat the original stories, and that they personally just don’t care to deal with it.

4) Defend them and praise them for “not wanting to deal with it” proper. It’s understandable in a business sense, but people seem to be taking the personal approach to this matter.

5) Adapting the stories with stereotypes was wrong 1. Pretending like they didn’t happen at the expense of people that care for the roots is wrong 2. Disney version or not, people are never going to look at these characters the same way again because of this.

We're going around in circles at this point and touching on issues that aren't pertinent to the thread. You believe that Disney can somehow bypass Song of the South and make right what you view as their mishandling of the source material*, whereas I believe that the film's baggage is too much to do anything about at this point. We're never going to see eye-to-eye.

———

* The parts of Song of the South that depict the actual tales aren't the problem anyway (even the tar baby is there in the original narrative). It's the framing story—the live-action plantation scenes—that made the film so problematic, as viewers of the time repeatedly noted.

 

[The Aracuan Bird]

We're going around in circles at this point and touching on issues that aren't pertinent to the thread. You believe that Disney can somehow bypass Song of the South and make right what you view as their mishandling of the source material*, whereas I believe that the film's baggage is too much to do anything about at this point. We're never going to see eye-to-eye.

———

* The parts of Song of the South that depict the actual tales aren't the problem anyway (even the tar baby is there in the original narrative) It's the framing story—the live-action plantation scenes—that made the film so problematic, as viewers of the time repeatedly noted.

No I agree with you. Especially with the * aside.

I don’t think they should or would take another stab at adapting it. My only point is, they reshaped the perception of the folk stories with the film. People think those stories come from the film. It might seem unnecessary for them to clarify things to you or I that know more, but many people only know what Disney and the news tell them.

 

[RSoxNo1]

They wouldn't have to retheme that far. The "New Orleans Square" could start on the opposite side of the Caribbean Plaza arch and stretch to SM. They would just have to retheme Pecos Bills (on at least that side) and add some French Quarter style building facades where on the opposite side of the street (and I think add a beignet stand).

View attachment 561475

On my podcast this week (coming out Friday), we're armchair Imagineering an MK buildout to 2035. I have a proposal for Frontierland and Liberty Square that I believe checks a lot of boxes and solves a lot of problems with this area currently as well as in the future. It's less obvious than things I've suggested on here previously and will go into greater detail following the release of the show.

 

[The Aracuan Bird]

On my podcast this week (coming out Friday), we're armchair Imagineering an MK buildout to 2035. I have a proposal for Frontierland and Liberty Square that I believe checks a lot of boxes and solves a lot of problems with this area currently as well as in the future. It's less obvious than things I've suggested on here previously and will go into greater detail following the release of the show.

Is it just about Frontierland? Or other lands as well? I might check it out, though I’m not huge on the Frontierland Liberty Square area of the park.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Thank God. Apparently, “Down in New Orleans” and “Friends on the Other Side” will appear.