Splash Mountain re-theme announced

denyuntilcaught

Well-Known Member
How sad it must be for certain people to go through life finding offense in everything and anything they can come up with. It must be exhausting. The list of offenses will never end with these people. It's never enough.

I don't believe those who are advocating for the Splash conversion were "finding offense in everything." I also don't believe you really have a place to invalidate someone else's thoughts on an attraction based on a controversial source.
 

noodles

Well-Known Member
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How sad it must be for certain people to go through life finding offense in everything and anything they can come up with. It must be exhausting. The list of offenses will never end with these people. It's never enough.
I'm going to convert to their way of thinking. And I'm going to try to ruin every single thing they hold near and dear. Me and about 50 million more if the lunacy doesn't stop soon.
 

ddbowdoin

Well-Known Member
We, the regular folk, come to Disney to enjoy age old attractions that mean something to us, our families, memories of many trips etc.

what’s annoying and frustrating is a very small and vocal minority who think tearing down statues, changing names, forcing their perverse vision of history into such benign things as theme park attractions will ACTUALLY MAKE TANGIBLE CHANGES IN THE REAL WORLD.

meanwhile, the true elite sit back ... because they know this is a diversion from Real change. It keeps the rage of the youth at bay, diverts attention from real change, and us regular folk are left losing loved attractions.
 

BigDlover

Well-Known Member
But your point was wondering "why Tiana"? And I answered, "Because Disney has always been promoting her all along." As well as the other members of The Disney Princesses (c). The board doesn't lack continual calls for a Tiana restaurant somewhere on WDW property.

Don't know why you would think the promotion of Tiana and Facilier, already both successfully promoted, is part of a series of bad decisions.
Not to mention replacing Splash Mountain, which is based on a movie with racially insensitive moments against black people, with a black princess movie is very empowering.
 

Sundown

Well-Known Member

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
How sad it must be for certain people to go through life finding offense in everything and anything they can come up with. It must be exhausting. The list of offenses will never end with these people. It's never enough.

How sad it must be to blithely going through life without awareness of the pain of an oppressed people in their midst.
 

Princess Leia

Well-Known Member
At the MK, "Frontierland" is a mess. It mixes "The South" with "The Frontier." Yes, at one time "The South" was the frontier, but, two hundred years earlier.

How did a ride based on Song of the South fit with "The Frontier"?

And how does a ride based on New Orleans not fit in with the Mississippi Riverboat and Tom Sawyer right next door? Neither of those are "The Frontier."





Thank you.
A friend of mine made a similar point. Plus, Alaska is the last frontier of the US, and space is the final frontier... so Frontierland could really cover anything
 

denyuntilcaught

Well-Known Member
Oh, the world is full of opinion. As the notions says they are like a certain body part that everyone has. But a rebut using an opinion piece from a movie review writer on a liberal leaning news site doesn't pass the muster. Certainly wouldn't be accepted as a reference for a term paper. Again, there is nothing racist about the movie. Nor is Uncle Remus enslaved.

Combating an analysis of a movie's controversial relationship with racism with "oh, it's just an opinion so therefore what I'm saying is fact" doesn't exactly cut it either...
 

bryanfze55

Well-Known Member
Dang, none of my comments made the cut.

Thanks for sharing this lol.

Congrats to all who made the list.

Gotta love the person who tweeted that our forum “makes me physically sick.” You see, any of us who disagree with removing Splash Mountain are indeed racist. I didn’t know my opinions were so revolting that they cause people physical harm. I have a lot of thinking to do.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Oh, the world is full of opinion. As the notions says they are like a certain body part that everyone has. But a rebut using an opinion piece from a movie review writer on a liberal leaning news site doesn't pass the muster. Certainly wouldn't be accepted as a reference for a term paper. Again, there is nothing racist about the movie. Nor is Uncle Remus enslaved.

What sources would you find acceptable? Because there are volumes of articles written about the ways in which Song of the South is problematic. Or did you think Disney locked it in the vault permanently because they hate money?
 

MuteSuperstar

Well-Known Member
Been mentioned but honestly if they are acknowledging that the ride is a problem why would this remain open when (more like if) the parks reopen next month?
 

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
I didn't know how to react when I first saw this, but I have two minds about it:

First, and most importantly, the freakout is bordering on pathetic. The amount of conspiratorial thinking, the notion that Disney is doing this as a "knee jerk reaction" to protests that began this summer when plans for something like this don't just happen at the drop of a hat is ridiculous. The number of people claiming that those who care about systemic racism or social justice are "mobs" or "easily angered" or something, yet who are spending their time here slamming their fist on the table, ranting and raving over a ride at a theme park is incredibly saddening to see, and makes me reconsider visiting here regularly. You want to talk about "privilege", I'd say the embodiment of privilege is treating a re-theme of a ride as something to get furious about...or inevitably freaking out at me because I dared to bring up the word "privilege". Projection, pot-kettle, you get the idea.

The reality is we don't know what motivated this decision; there has not been some kind of major social media movement to change Splash that's gained any kind of mainstream traction, the ride is considered an unquestioned staple, etc. If there were people upset by it, maybe it behooves us to hear what those who are upset have to say? They might have lived experiences and backgrounds that we're not familiar with, and we might learn through communicating that their point of view is one born from a legitimate desire to see changes, even small ones, made to try and create a world with more positive representation for traditionally marginalized communities. Maybe we won't agree on whether this is an avenue by which to do so, but it pays to listen. Plus, again...there really hasn't been any kind of large-scale outcry over Splash to begin with, anyway, so I think a lot of people here are constructing a straw-boogeyman they can tilt their lances at.

That all being said: the main reason I'm not too enthused about this is the same reason I'm not very enthused about a lot of what Disney's doing of late in the parks, the simple reason that recent experiences don't fill me with a lot of hope that they'll handle this in a way that'll be superior to the version that came before.

I've always viewed the Orlando version of Splash as a sort of fun descent (ascent?) into madness, starting with the early fake-out drop and relaxing float through "How Do Ya Do?" with the start of Brer Rabbit's journey, only for things to start feeling more chaotic as we get to "Laffin' Place" with all the weird colors and laughing voices around us, culminating in the vultures insulting us as we climb towards what must be our doom...only for the freakout to end with a fast comedown and exuberance with Zip a Dee Doo Dah. That's always taken the ride to another level in my book, just that general feeling of progression.

Will it be recaptured if it's themed after a story taking place after the end of Princess and the Frog? I don't know. It's entirely possible it'll be great, but I've had to face the music in recent years that, even at 35 years old, I don't feel like current Disney really creates a lot of experiences that I'm very excited about anymore, and the last few times I've been to WDW I've been more focused on things that have been there for a long time. So, no, the news doesn't fill me with hope insofar as my knee-jerk reaction is to think the ride won't be quite as good as it was before.

But on the social issues front? I don't mind it. The origins of the Uncle Remus stories is complicated, to say the least: yes, they have their roots in actual black American and African folklore, and Joel Harris likely had mostly positive intentions when he put them together as a book, but to this day many people, including African American academics and those with an interest in the history of these stories, are still split on their ultimate legacy and whether they are more positive or negative, and those are the voices I'm most interested in hearing from. If Disney's feeling is "the debate and conversation is too divided, it's best we change the ride to just avoid it altogether", I can't fault them that; then again, Disney's feeling might simply be "Princess and the Frog is an IP we can still profit off of, while Song of the South has mostly been relegated to the vault, so let's try and cash in", which is definitely more cynical (though not unlikely), but, again, is up to the people in charge, whether I agree with them on the whole or not.
 

PeoplemoverTTA

Well-Known Member
I think why people get ****ed... as follows.

We, the regular folk, come to Disney to enjoy age old attractions that mean something to us, our families, memories of many trips etc.

what’s annoying and frustrating is a very small and vocal minority who think tearing down statues, changing names, forcing their perverse vision of history into such benign things as theme park attractions will ACTUALLY MAKE TANGIBLE CHANGES IN THE REAL WORLD.

meanwhile, the true elite sit back ... because they know this is a diversion from Real change. It keeps the rage of the youth at bay, diverts attention from real change, and us regular folk are left losing loved attractions.

There's no need or desire to erase history. That's a false statement. But there's also no reason to celebrate history and those who committed heinous acts.

In fact, acknowledging history and discussing what's wrong and abhorrent about it is what brings about change. And removing statues, et al that CELEBRATE the worst of our history opens up those discussions...

...for those emotionally mature enough to have them.

Clearly, this isn't the place to come for emotionally mature discussions.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Look, I am extremely frustrated about this decision. I think this is a disastrous move on the behalf of Disney made with such little respect towards one of their most iconic masterpieces of an attraction. Splash Mountain is my favourite attraction in the Magic Kingdom and I will be heartbroken if this refurb goes through. I love Princess And The Frog, but they should seriously build it's own attractions somewhere else.

With that being said, can we PLEASE stop with all of these sarcastic "no muh snowflakes triggered about facts over feelings" comments? Seriously, I'm seeing tons of people in this thread drawing up an SJW strawman to pin the blame of this change on. I haven't seen anyone, even the most determined of activists, complain about this attraction in any sense. Disney isn't making this decision to appease the "liberal agenda", they're doing it because they have no idea about what's important to focus on improving, destroying classic attractions that don't need to be changed so drastically. It's clear the taboo of the source material is a key factor in this update, but I think this rather because Disney is so scared of themselves for owning such a controversial IP, and they believe that sweeping it under the rug will fix this.

Racism is a serious issue that is still being caused by systemic oppression and ignorance around the world, and the people fighting it aren't just some silly caricature you can point fingers at over a ride closing. I'm not denying the existence of the more hyperbolic critics out there, but do you really think that many people are getting so outraged over a random Disney ride? Very few people who actually go on the damn ride are aware of the history behind it.

It was the same issue with changing Pirates. Disney made a dumb move and messed up a classic attraction, but instead up putting the blame squarely on Disney, fans created a ghost figure screaming "SEXIST" to tear apart as a political outlet, instead of actually fighting the company that made the change. When the Save Mr. Toad campaign took place, protesters never made claims about sensitive snowflake activists calling it offensive to drunk drivers, they just faced the pure facts that Disney was making a decision they didn't agree with.
I saw something earlier this very month where people made some kind of petition to change the ride to Princess and the Frog for these reasons and now lo and behold...
 

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