Princess Leia
Well-Known Member
A friend of mine made a similar point. Plus, Alaska is the last frontier of the US, and space is the final frontier... so Frontierland could really cover anything
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Splash Mountain re-theme announced
- Thread starter DCBaker
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denyuntilcaught
Well-Known Member
Combating an analysis of a movie's controversial relationship with racism with "oh, it's just an opinion so therefore what I'm saying is fact" doesn't exactly cut it either...
bryanfze55
Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing this lol.
Congrats to all who made the list.
Gotta love the person who tweeted that our forum “makes me physically sick.” You see, any of us who disagree with removing Splash Mountain are indeed racist. I didn’t know my opinions were so revolting that they cause people physical harm. I have a lot of thinking to do.
bryanfze55
Well-Known Member
Nope, she understands quality art when she sees it. She loves Inside Out but told me Emotional Whirlwind was a terrible ride.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
What sources would you find acceptable? Because there are volumes of articles written about the ways in which Song of the South is problematic. Or did you think Disney locked it in the vault permanently because they hate money?
MuteSuperstar
Well-Known Member
Been mentioned but honestly if they are acknowledging that the ride is a problem why would this remain open when (more like if) the parks reopen next month?
RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
I didn't know how to react when I first saw this, but I have two minds about it:
First, and most importantly, the freakout is bordering on pathetic. The amount of conspiratorial thinking, the notion that Disney is doing this as a "knee jerk reaction" to protests that began this summer when plans for something like this don't just happen at the drop of a hat is ridiculous. The number of people claiming that those who care about systemic racism or social justice are "mobs" or "easily angered" or something, yet who are spending their time here slamming their fist on the table, ranting and raving over a ride at a theme park is incredibly saddening to see, and makes me reconsider visiting here regularly. You want to talk about "privilege", I'd say the embodiment of privilege is treating a re-theme of a ride as something to get furious about...or inevitably freaking out at me because I dared to bring up the word "privilege". Projection, pot-kettle, you get the idea.
The reality is we don't know what motivated this decision; there has not been some kind of major social media movement to change Splash that's gained any kind of mainstream traction, the ride is considered an unquestioned staple, etc. If there were people upset by it, maybe it behooves us to hear what those who are upset have to say? They might have lived experiences and backgrounds that we're not familiar with, and we might learn through communicating that their point of view is one born from a legitimate desire to see changes, even small ones, made to try and create a world with more positive representation for traditionally marginalized communities. Maybe we won't agree on whether this is an avenue by which to do so, but it pays to listen. Plus, again...there really hasn't been any kind of large-scale outcry over Splash to begin with, anyway, so I think a lot of people here are constructing a straw-boogeyman they can tilt their lances at.
That all being said: the main reason I'm not too enthused about this is the same reason I'm not very enthused about a lot of what Disney's doing of late in the parks, the simple reason that recent experiences don't fill me with a lot of hope that they'll handle this in a way that'll be superior to the version that came before.
I've always viewed the Orlando version of Splash as a sort of fun descent (ascent?) into madness, starting with the early fake-out drop and relaxing float through "How Do Ya Do?" with the start of Brer Rabbit's journey, only for things to start feeling more chaotic as we get to "Laffin' Place" with all the weird colors and laughing voices around us, culminating in the vultures insulting us as we climb towards what must be our doom...only for the freakout to end with a fast comedown and exuberance with Zip a Dee Doo Dah. That's always taken the ride to another level in my book, just that general feeling of progression.
Will it be recaptured if it's themed after a story taking place after the end of Princess and the Frog? I don't know. It's entirely possible it'll be great, but I've had to face the music in recent years that, even at 35 years old, I don't feel like current Disney really creates a lot of experiences that I'm very excited about anymore, and the last few times I've been to WDW I've been more focused on things that have been there for a long time. So, no, the news doesn't fill me with hope insofar as my knee-jerk reaction is to think the ride won't be quite as good as it was before.
But on the social issues front? I don't mind it. The origins of the Uncle Remus stories is complicated, to say the least: yes, they have their roots in actual black American and African folklore, and Joel Harris likely had mostly positive intentions when he put them together as a book, but to this day many people, including African American academics and those with an interest in the history of these stories, are still split on their ultimate legacy and whether they are more positive or negative, and those are the voices I'm most interested in hearing from. If Disney's feeling is "the debate and conversation is too divided, it's best we change the ride to just avoid it altogether", I can't fault them that; then again, Disney's feeling might simply be "Princess and the Frog is an IP we can still profit off of, while Song of the South has mostly been relegated to the vault, so let's try and cash in", which is definitely more cynical (though not unlikely), but, again, is up to the people in charge, whether I agree with them on the whole or not.
First, and most importantly, the freakout is bordering on pathetic. The amount of conspiratorial thinking, the notion that Disney is doing this as a "knee jerk reaction" to protests that began this summer when plans for something like this don't just happen at the drop of a hat is ridiculous. The number of people claiming that those who care about systemic racism or social justice are "mobs" or "easily angered" or something, yet who are spending their time here slamming their fist on the table, ranting and raving over a ride at a theme park is incredibly saddening to see, and makes me reconsider visiting here regularly. You want to talk about "privilege", I'd say the embodiment of privilege is treating a re-theme of a ride as something to get furious about...or inevitably freaking out at me because I dared to bring up the word "privilege". Projection, pot-kettle, you get the idea.
The reality is we don't know what motivated this decision; there has not been some kind of major social media movement to change Splash that's gained any kind of mainstream traction, the ride is considered an unquestioned staple, etc. If there were people upset by it, maybe it behooves us to hear what those who are upset have to say? They might have lived experiences and backgrounds that we're not familiar with, and we might learn through communicating that their point of view is one born from a legitimate desire to see changes, even small ones, made to try and create a world with more positive representation for traditionally marginalized communities. Maybe we won't agree on whether this is an avenue by which to do so, but it pays to listen. Plus, again...there really hasn't been any kind of large-scale outcry over Splash to begin with, anyway, so I think a lot of people here are constructing a straw-boogeyman they can tilt their lances at.
That all being said: the main reason I'm not too enthused about this is the same reason I'm not very enthused about a lot of what Disney's doing of late in the parks, the simple reason that recent experiences don't fill me with a lot of hope that they'll handle this in a way that'll be superior to the version that came before.
I've always viewed the Orlando version of Splash as a sort of fun descent (ascent?) into madness, starting with the early fake-out drop and relaxing float through "How Do Ya Do?" with the start of Brer Rabbit's journey, only for things to start feeling more chaotic as we get to "Laffin' Place" with all the weird colors and laughing voices around us, culminating in the vultures insulting us as we climb towards what must be our doom...only for the freakout to end with a fast comedown and exuberance with Zip a Dee Doo Dah. That's always taken the ride to another level in my book, just that general feeling of progression.
Will it be recaptured if it's themed after a story taking place after the end of Princess and the Frog? I don't know. It's entirely possible it'll be great, but I've had to face the music in recent years that, even at 35 years old, I don't feel like current Disney really creates a lot of experiences that I'm very excited about anymore, and the last few times I've been to WDW I've been more focused on things that have been there for a long time. So, no, the news doesn't fill me with hope insofar as my knee-jerk reaction is to think the ride won't be quite as good as it was before.
But on the social issues front? I don't mind it. The origins of the Uncle Remus stories is complicated, to say the least: yes, they have their roots in actual black American and African folklore, and Joel Harris likely had mostly positive intentions when he put them together as a book, but to this day many people, including African American academics and those with an interest in the history of these stories, are still split on their ultimate legacy and whether they are more positive or negative, and those are the voices I'm most interested in hearing from. If Disney's feeling is "the debate and conversation is too divided, it's best we change the ride to just avoid it altogether", I can't fault them that; then again, Disney's feeling might simply be "Princess and the Frog is an IP we can still profit off of, while Song of the South has mostly been relegated to the vault, so let's try and cash in", which is definitely more cynical (though not unlikely), but, again, is up to the people in charge, whether I agree with them on the whole or not.
PeoplemoverTTA
Well-Known Member
There's no need or desire to erase history. That's a false statement. But there's also no reason to celebrate history and those who committed heinous acts.
In fact, acknowledging history and discussing what's wrong and abhorrent about it is what brings about change. And removing statues, et al that CELEBRATE the worst of our history opens up those discussions...
...for those emotionally mature enough to have them.
Clearly, this isn't the place to come for emotionally mature discussions.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
I saw something earlier this very month where people made some kind of petition to change the ride to Princess and the Frog for these reasons and now lo and behold...
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
If you want the actual historical answer, though, it's largely because the federal government stopped supporting Reconstruction policies, which meant there was no longer the necessary protection in place to allow it to function. And, as I said, white supremacists reclaimed control over the south.
My original point was that there's at least a case to be made that African Americans were better off during Reconstruction than they were 100 years later, which shows just how bad things were in the 20th century. It had nothing to do with the ride or the movie.
The_Jobu
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, if they do make this change it's because they think they can make more money, not because they deeply care for the emotional states of people signing an online petition.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
You're off to a great start!
floydbeatle
Active Member
Here are my thoughts FWIW:
1) Like others I love Splash Mountain. I thinks its a great ride and I will miss it. I also own Song of the South. Contrary to popular belief it has always been available online for sale overseas and I bought it about 2 years ago. (Just goes to show you what Disney really thinks about social issues.)
2) I like Princess and the Frog. Just saw it from start to finish back in March and enjoyed it. It would be more appropriate to retheme Navi River Journey than Splash. I'm sure most would agree it isn't worth longer than a 15 min wait.
3) I think retheming to Princess and the Frog is crappy pandering, and does nothing to advance any social justice movement. It will make purists mad. If I was the head Imagineer on this, I would see if for what it is, and call out my leadership for not really investing in a property that will thrill guests with an original story of Black Americans for an entire generation. Wasn't the original idea considered racist, and then they watered the movie down. For those who think that's what should be the representation for Black Americans in Disney Parks, I respectfully disagree.
4) IMO Disney had no other options, whatever anyone says. They need to get out from underneath the constant accusations of having a ride based on racial stereotypes.
5) Most likely other rethemes will happen. Nothing we can do about it.
6) I'm ok with the idea of a change, if only not to have these discussions anymore.
1) Like others I love Splash Mountain. I thinks its a great ride and I will miss it. I also own Song of the South. Contrary to popular belief it has always been available online for sale overseas and I bought it about 2 years ago. (Just goes to show you what Disney really thinks about social issues.)
2) I like Princess and the Frog. Just saw it from start to finish back in March and enjoyed it. It would be more appropriate to retheme Navi River Journey than Splash. I'm sure most would agree it isn't worth longer than a 15 min wait.
3) I think retheming to Princess and the Frog is crappy pandering, and does nothing to advance any social justice movement. It will make purists mad. If I was the head Imagineer on this, I would see if for what it is, and call out my leadership for not really investing in a property that will thrill guests with an original story of Black Americans for an entire generation. Wasn't the original idea considered racist, and then they watered the movie down. For those who think that's what should be the representation for Black Americans in Disney Parks, I respectfully disagree.
4) IMO Disney had no other options, whatever anyone says. They need to get out from underneath the constant accusations of having a ride based on racial stereotypes.
5) Most likely other rethemes will happen. Nothing we can do about it.
6) I'm ok with the idea of a change, if only not to have these discussions anymore.
Disney Maddux
Well-Known Member
Any time frame for this?
Tony Perkis
Well-Known Member
I genuinely have no idea how someone’s mind operates when it cannot even fathom underlying racism in something so simple as Song of the South. It’s there, plain as day.
The_Jobu
Well-Known Member
Congrats on raising an insightful and intelligent child ✌
ddbowdoin
Well-Known Member
The goal posts are ever moving... you didn’t think it would end with confederate statues?
next up, every old white guy... ever
_caleb
Well-Known Member
And a boat in a tree on top of the mountain
Respectfully, there's no debate about whether the character in the movie was enslaved. He was not. The film is also not set "during slavery," but during Reconstruction after emancipation. There is no question about these facts, although they are often misunderstood.
For the record, I do think the film has its problems, like most films of that era do. With thought given to their context, I enjoy watching them regularly and absolutely think there is a place for them in our culture. I know part of that is my privilege talking too. I probably wouldn't have decided, having weighed everything, to retheme the ride, but I understand the reasoning. When I see how many seem not to understand some basic facts around this although they've staked out a position, I feel I may have given some folks too much credit.
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