Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

[71jason]

The rest of your post is dead on accurate, but this part isn't true.

If you order at HogsHead, understand the the bartenders there are paid as tipped employees, so please leave them a tip. They only get 4$ and change an hour, so tip them well even if you're just getting a butter beer! My personal rule is 1$ per drink.

While I 100% agree with this, as somewhat of an expert on theme park drinking, I can tell you the majority of Butterbeer-buying customers do not tip. They see a walk-up drink counter as the equivalent of fast food. One of the opening Hogs Head bartenders blew years of seniority and favors just to work in Hogsmeade, only to quit a couple months later because he wasn't making any money. Guests should tip there--but they don't.

(BTW, not just a Universal thing. I've heard the same complaint from Splitsville bartenders. The only bar with steady business is the downstairs patio, which is largely a walk-up bar, but there your tips will run less than 10% of your daily sales when you work there.)

There's also a line they form when Hogshead is busy, so it's not a typical bar format where you walk up and hope a bartender notices you. You form a que, usually along the bar towards the back door.

It was not designed as such--which is why the line stretching back often blocks tables or even goes out the back door. I was there the first day of soft opens, Hogs Head had barstools most of the length of the bar. Clearly it was meant to be more of a "bar," just as Alchemy Bar had been. However, the demand for Butterbeer has changed it into a de facto Butterbeer stand, just as PhotoDave said. For a while, they even took away the liquor (making it just beer and Potter drinks), although I believe that is finally back.

(Tip for non-peak dining times--as often as not it's quicker to get a Butterbeer from the Three Broomsticks with its 3 or 4 cashiers--and they also honor AP and TM discounts.)

 

[George]

The 20 mile thing was only for 2013 for the 20th anniversary of the run. They had the Mickey hot air balloon, The VIP characters on a setup with a banner you ran under, and the DCA World of Color puppets out for photo ops. Was kind of a let down, they werent even the best photo ops on the course.

Now, I've seen the party mentioned, with explanation!

 

[71jason]

However, there are Disney addicts who their only way to get Run Disney bling is to enter the race. Disney (in shocking fashion) charges a crap load for these races, so even if you only run 10 meters, you feel justified in getting your bling. Voila! Weird run environment created.

You're not wrong, but there's also the "safety net" aspect of Disney that appeals to a lot of addicts. The same reason addicts who would never go overseas on their own feel "safe" doing it with Disney Adventures or whatever it is. Disney fans who would never consider a "real" marathon (yes, I know the exact same length) seem drawn to these, as if putting Mickey on your number means you'll have a better chance of finishing.

 

[nytimez]

^^I've been thinking of signing up for a run Disney event for more than a year, but haven't because I conjectured all the things you guys are mentioning to be true. I love Disney and running through the parks would be fun, but as a 43 year old recreational runner, I HATE half marathons that have tons of people I have to run around all to keep my middle aged 10 minute mile. I ran a local half, at the end of April (Carmel, Indiana half and full marathon) the first qualifier for Boston after the Boston bombing and it was heavenly. Only a few thousand people and for miles 7,8, and 9 I was essentially by myself. I've also never got my head wrapped around some of the "enjoyable" parts of running a Disney race and am unsure whether or not I would enjoy it. For example, I considered signing up for the ToT 10K, but I'm wasn't sure if I'd enjoy the post run party all sweaty and tired...Plus, I sweat and stink pretty bad. Does everyone just ride ToT again and again all stinky? Is there residual body goo on the ride the next day creating the need for fumigation? What's up with the mile 20 (or whatever, I can't remember the exact point in the race) party they have in the baseball stadium during the full marathon? I always see it mentioned without explanation. Am I supposed to run 20 miles, stop and eat quesadillas, drink margaritas, and then resume my marathon without puking? What exactly takes place at this party? Do I run with a camera so I can stop and get pictures with all the characters and whatnot or do the run events have their own photopass? On the one hand, having photopass photographers lining the course would be kind of neat, but that sure indicates it is not a running event to take seriously. If I'm chugging along a few seconds ahead of my personal best pace and the man/woman beside me want me to stop and get their picture with pirate Goofy using their smart phone, is it OK to wave them off? Anyway, I may have to run one of these just to get my questions answered.

I did the Wine & Dine half marathon last year and had the same concerns - especially at the starting point with all the zillions of people there.

But, I think they actually did a great job spacing it out, the "herd" thins out quickly and I never really had a problem setting/keeping my own pace beyond the first couple of minutes, where it's always going to be a problem.

Also, re: the "elephants" mentioned earlier - honestly this was the largest number of fit people I've ever seen at Disney. Yes, there were some people who absolutely had no business even attempting a half marathon and some people who thought it would be "fun" to try to walk it, but not very many as far as I noticed.

Can't answer your other questions...

 

[Bolna]

You're not wrong, but there's also the "safety net" aspect of Disney that appeals to a lot of addicts. The same reason addicts who would never go overseas on their own feel "safe" doing it with Disney Adventures or whatever it is. Disney fans who would never consider a "real" marathon (yes, I know the exact same length) seem drawn to these, as if putting Mickey on your number means you'll have a better chance of finishing.

To some extent I like the idea that Disney races are more inclusive than others. Here in Germany you would most likely arrive way later than anyone else if you had 16 minute per mile pace at a half marathon. But just as you say it also attracts people who are not fit enough. To run even 21 km you need to train!! And not just show up!

I think it is good that Disney started to offer 10k races now as these are much easier to train for. And it gives people the option of a timed race that for a new runner still is a challenge. Maybe this will help people making smarter choices fitting to their individual abilities.

 

[WDWFigment]

5Ks? No, not serious.

Half and Full Marathons? You betcha! A lot of hard work,blood, sweat, and tears go into training for either.

I ran my first 10k in March. I trained daily for it. Ran in the cold, in the rain, and through knee pain. I didn't overestimate my abilities and ran in what I thought was the proper group for a first timer and based on my training. There were people just like spirit described strolling along the route, blocking the way, and frankly, making it very dangerous. I spent more time dodging people than running forward...certainly didn't train for all that lateral movement.

I'm a competitive person, so I take such things seriously. Want a finisher medal? Do the 5k, or start in the last corral. It's not fair to people who take races seriously.

Same thing happened to us at the Tower of Terror 10-miler. I also agree that it's lame that everyone gets the medal.

On the flip side, I don't have a problem with people who aren't in the best of shape participating in the runDisney events. I think people getting exercise, regardless of the reason, is a good thing. For all I know, they could have trained far more intensely than I did.

There needs to be some sort of balance. On the one hand, these are athletic events and unfit runners can make the experience worse for others. On the other hand, these events undoubtedly are not as "serious" as marathons elsewhere, so real runners should manage their expectations. I think the biggest problem is that Disney allows too many people in the events, or doesn't spread the event out more (can they add more corals and decrease the number of people in each?).

Now, if they start letting EVCs participate in the races, I will feel quite differently.

 

[HenryMystic]

That said, let me put it to you this way. What has Disney done to get the message out that this is a "serious" marathon? I'll tell you...nothing at all! Why? Because they never intended it to be a serious marathon.

By definition, all marathons are serious. 26.2 miles is no joke.

 

[HenryMystic]

as somewhat of an expert on theme park drinking

You and SGT should write a book. :cheers:

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Ok so let me make sure I got this right.

If you're "out of shape" then you don't deserve to get a medal in a marathon that you've pushed yourself to join, train, and then jog/run.

And if you're a "herd of elephants" you should get released LAST into the race, because you'll slow everyone else down.

Should we also separate the people who are running said marathon who are cancer survivors? Or cancer patients?

Or better yet, how about all of you athletic OMG I'M BETTER THAN EVERYONE types just run ahead and get right over yourselves?

Do you really think that a 'fat' person who is obviously pushing themselves to finish this race has any agenda in mind? They just want to finish. Maybe they're a cancer survivor (like a patient of mine, who ran her very first Disney marathon- first marathon ever, actually- one year to the day after being diagnosed with breast cancer and going through chemo, radiation, and a double masectomy) or maybe it's their first race. Or maybe, MAYBE... they don't want to run themselves stupid and are simply pacing.

I really can't believe what I'm reading on this thread right now.

NEVER. HAPPY.

 

[tissandtully]

Ok so let me make sure I got this right.

If you're "out of shape" then you don't deserve to get a medal in a marathon that you've pushed yourself to join, train, and then jog/run.

And if you're a "herd of elephants" you should get released LAST into the race, because you'll slow everyone else down.

Should we also separate the people who are running said marathon who are cancer survivors? Or cancer patients?

Or better yet, how about all of you athletic OMG I'M BETTER THAN EVERYONE types just run ahead and get right over yourselves?

Do you really think that a 'fat' person who is obviously pushing themselves to finish this race has any agenda in mind? They just want to finish. Maybe they're a cancer survivor (like a patient of mine, who ran her very first Disney marathon- first marathon ever, actually- one year to the day after being diagnosed with breast cancer and going through chemo, radiation, and a double masectomy) or maybe it's their first race. Or maybe, MAYBE... they don't want to run themselves stupid and are simply pacing.

I really can't believe what I'm reading on this thread right now.

NEVER. HAPPY.

I came back to this thread just to like this post.

I'd love to go toe-to-toe with some of you keyboard marathoners on here. I'm not a small guy, but I can run. I train for running weekly, you can hardly tell how someone will perform in running just by looking at them. It's not about body type, it's about muscle, cardio, lung endurance. The fact that you only have to do a 16-minute mile to qualify shows you how this isn't a "I'm going to set a personal record" type of race. Get over yourselves. Looking forward to this thread getting shut down as well.

 

[GLaDOS]

Seriously. I get the complaints about parks often.

But complaining because people get a medal for completing a 13.1 mile run?

Come on.

 

[George]

Ok so let me make sure I got this right.

If you're "out of shape" then you don't deserve to get a medal in a marathon that you've pushed yourself to join, train, and then jog/run.

And if you're a "herd of elephants" you should get released LAST into the race, because you'll slow everyone else down.

Should we also separate the people who are running said marathon who are cancer survivors? Or cancer patients?

Or better yet, how about all of you athletic OMG I'M BETTER THAN EVERYONE types just run ahead and get right over yourselves?

Do you really think that a 'fat' person who is obviously pushing themselves to finish this race has any agenda in mind? They just want to finish. Maybe they're a cancer survivor (like a patient of mine, who ran her very first Disney marathon- first marathon ever, actually- one year to the day after being diagnosed with breast cancer and going through chemo, radiation, and a double masectomy) or maybe it's their first race. Or maybe, MAYBE... they don't want to run themselves stupid and are simply pacing.

I really can't believe what I'm reading on this thread right now.

NEVER. HAPPY.

I agree with your sentiments....I've just always wondered if the Run Disney races would be right for me. In every race I've ever run there have been people who look out of shape who do great, people who look great who really struggle, people who have bad days, and people who do terrible and admit to not having trained at all....If it is a big race and the number of participants who have done no or minimal training is high, the start of the race can be very painful especially if you are slow (which I am) and in a corral near the back. I wouldn't begrudge anyone who trained hard anything. In my experience, most people who have done a lot of training have mixed emotions about getting a medal if they didn't finish the race. I think because these are expensive races, people would be more apt to take the medal just because of financial part of the deal. But, I've got no issues with anyone who's trained and worked and their personal goal is to stay ahead of the minimum pace and finish the race. My personal guess is that anecdotes of people who got pulled after 2-3 miles of a marathon for not maintaining a 16min/mile in many cases involved someone not training at all (though I'm sure there are exceptions).

Now, you could argue that we shouldn't care if anyone gets a medal regardless of whether or not they entered the race with the intention of actually trying their best and finishing...Runners are picky about this and I think that has to do with the nature of running which teaches one fortitude, patience, and tolerance for pain and boredom. This is what leads to comments like everyone getting a medal is lame, especially when there is a feeling that many took shortcuts just to get a medal. Do finisher's get a medal that says "finisher" on it? The nature of Run Disney could lend itself to a system where everyone gets a medal, but finisher's get a special medal...just a thought.

 

[GoofGoof]

While I 100% agree with this, as somewhat of an expert on theme park drinking, I can tell you the majority of Butterbeer-buying customers do not tip. They see a walk-up drink counter as the equivalent of fast food. One of the opening Hogs Head bartenders blew years of seniority and favors just to work in Hogsmeade, only to quit a couple months later because he wasn't making any money. Guests should tip there--but they don't.

(BTW, not just a Universal thing. I've heard the same complaint from Splitsville bartenders. The only bar with steady business is the downstairs patio, which is largely a walk-up bar, but there your tips will run less than 10% of your daily sales when you work there.)



It was not designed as such--which is why the line stretching back often blocks tables or even goes out the back door. I was there the first day of soft opens, Hogs Head had barstools most of the length of the bar. Clearly it was meant to be more of a "bar," just as Alchemy Bar had been. However, the demand for Butterbeer has changed it into a de facto Butterbeer stand, just as PhotoDave said. For a while, they even took away the liquor (making it just beer and Potter drinks), although I believe that is finally back.

(Tip for non-peak dining times--as often as not it's quicker to get a Butterbeer from the Three Broomsticks with its 3 or 4 cashiers--and they also honor AP and TM discounts.)

What is wrong with people? You drop thousands on a vacation to visit theme parks and you can't spare a few bucks for a bartender? Bad tipping is a pet peeve of mine. A tip to a bartender or waiter isn't an optional hand out its part of your cost. Maybe some people don't realize it, but these people rely on tips for income.

 

[asianway]

I agree with your sentiments....I've just always wondered if the Run Disney races would be right for me. In every race I've ever run there have been people who look out of shape who do great, people who look great who really struggle, people who have bad days, and people who do terrible and admit to not having trained at all....If it is a big race and the number of participants who have done no or minimal training is high, the start of the race can be very painful especially if you are slow (which I am) and in a corral near the back. I wouldn't begrudge anyone who trained hard anything. In my experience, most people who have done a lot of training have mixed emotions about getting a medal if they didn't finish the race. I think because these are expensive races, people would be more apt to take the medal just because of financial part of the deal. But, I've got no issues with anyone who's trained and worked and their personal goal is to stay ahead of the minimum pace and finish the race. My personal guess is that anecdotes of people who got pulled after 2-3 miles of a marathon for not maintaining a 16min/mile in many cases involved someone not training at all (though I'm sure there are exceptions).

Now, you could argue that we shouldn't care if anyone gets a medal regardless of whether or not they entered the race with the intention of actually trying their best and finishing...Runners are picky about this and I think that has to do with the nature of running which teaches one fortitude, patience, and tolerance for pain and boredom. This is what leads to comments like everyone getting a medal is lame, especially when there is a feeling that many took shortcuts just to get a medal. Do finisher's get a medal that says "finisher" on it? The nature of Run Disney could lend itself to a system where everyone gets a medal, but finisher's get a special medal...just a thought.

Only finishers get the certificate to download later. At the Finish Line Party for the inaugural Wine and Dine I saw more puking in Epcot than I ever had and three people collapsed, who looked in perfectly good shape, being tended to by RCFD EMTs. The two night races are HOT. Last years TOT was in 80 degree heat with near 100% humidity. I dont think many people no matter how fit they are are training in those conditions.

 

[WDWFigment]

Seriously. I get the complaints about parks often.

But complaining because people get a medal for completing a 13.1 mile run?

Come on.

In fairness, even Disney consistently refers to it as a "Finisher Medal." If everyone gets it, regardless of whether they finish, why call it that in the first place? Why not just have it be a "Participant Award"?

 

[George]

Only finishers get the certificate to download later. At the Finish Line Party for the inaugural Wine and Dine I saw more puking in Epcot than I ever had and three people collapsed, who looked in perfectly good shape, being tended to by RCFD EMTs. The two night races are HOT. Last years TOT was in 80 degree heat with near 100% humidity. I dont think many people no matter how fit they are are training in those conditions.

This is the other thing that has kept me from registering. I grew up in central Florida. I know what it's like. I've been a Midwestern guy for a while and my body has changed. I can't cope with the heat and humidity near as well as I used to.

Certificates by their very nature are lame. You ought to get some special bling for finishing. How about a Disney pin? Everyone gets a medal, but finishers get a pin?

 

[bubbles1812]

What is wrong with people? You drop thousands on a vacation to visit theme parks and you can't spare a few bucks for a bartender? Bad tipping is a pet peeve of mine. A tip to a bartender or waiter isn't an optional hand out its part of your cost. Maybe some people don't realize it, but these people rely on tips for income.

I'm going to guess its more that people just don't realize they should be tipping than anything else. I was in there just to look and the way it's a walk up, I could see many people just not realizing these employees aren't the typical ones that don't require a tip. Honestly, they should just pay the bartenders what everyone else makes since it is designed as a quick service type place... No one is used to tipping for those.

 

[GLaDOS]

In fairness, even Disney consistently refers to it as a "Finisher Medal." If everyone gets it, regardless of whether they finish, why call it that in the first place? Why not just have it be a "Participant Award"?

I've run 3 of their races and never knew non-finishers get the medals. In fact when signing up it says you won't get them if you don't finish if I recall correctly.

If they're giving them out to nonfinishers, that's a different story. But I've seen people in this thread saying the "not serious racers" shouldn't get medals and that it devalues those that are actually racing.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Now, if they start letting EVCs participate in the races, I will feel quite differently.

They should have them do laps on the Richard Petty track.

 

[asianway]

This is the other thing that has kept me from registering. I grew up in central Florida. I know what it's like. I've been a Midwestern guy for a while and my body has changed. I can't cope with the heat and humidity near as well as I used to.

Certificates by their very nature are lame. You ought to get some special bling for finishing. How about a Disney pin? Everyone gets a medal, but finishers get a pin?

My theory on the change to give everyone a medal is that there were a few people on ebay selling medals over and over after races for $10 or less. I assume they were CMs who had access to the stuff to throw away and this was to stop the problem.

If the thought of nonfinishers boils everyones blood, be aware that the special framed up versions of the medals they sell to place your time and photos in have been sold at Team Mickey and the outlet stores after the races. I even heard individual medals were at the outlets after the princess, but did not corroborate that myself.