Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[PeterAlt]

I've got it! The perfect replacement for Carousel of Progress! Since WDW is turning into an Orwellian dystopia, let's re-theme CoP appropriately. Instead of the progress of technology making the lives of people better, the new show will be about the intrusion of technology into the lives of people.

The final scene will be a dark dystopian future - the Carousel Scene from Logan's Run...

 

[GoofGoof]

Well the strollers do bother me. Those doombuggies have taken over public space. They are like cars in a once pedestrian area.

Toddlerland, formerly Fantasyland:

Adventureland. Once a calm tropical oasis in the MK, now you move like ants between the plastic toons, spinner and strollers packed with enough food and gear for a six week jungle expedition:

EPCOT's Clone Army, ready to overthrow the Republic:

Classic MK! No strollers! No clogged Fantasyland! Before the Fantasyland Diminishing Project of recent years, FL already featured fountains, waterstreams, shade, resting places, rides, manouverable pathways. To boot, also a Bavarian hillside to go with the Bavarian hillside town architecture.
It's all gone. Turned into a Toon Toilet. [insert some wordplay with 'down the toilet'] Because people drink out of horse buckets nowadays they had to build extra toilets, the skyway had to go for want of disciplined guests, and the area needed to be widened to accomodate those forty million SUV strollers.

I'll go back to my original comment. Before I had kids or a stroller I never went into the stroller parking areas so I didn't really notice them and I definitely wouldn't bother taking a picture of them. I'm sure they were there. I still really don't see the problem if there is a roped off area for people to park strollers and its filled with strollers. IMHO Disney does a really good job keeping the stroller parking organized and out of the way so the walking paths are not blocked. We can agree to disagree on this one.

 

[GoofGoof]

70's and early 80's WDW was very different. Mostly, WDW was like DLR with the majority of visitors being locals. The second tourism really took off is when I noticed the Stroller Swarms, so it's not really fair to compare, imo. The crowds were very different at WDW back then.

I'm not sure if it is just because its more of a tourist crowd vs a locals crowd, but that could play a part too. I think a bigger factor is that there are more 2 income families than in the 80s. There were less younger kids in general at WDW in the 80s because young families were less likely to be able to afford that kind of trip. Families today have more disposable income and because of the hours spent away from the kids are looking for a "family friendly" vacation so they can spend some quality time with the kids. WDW is about as family friendly as you can get. More money means more gadgets and toys for new moms and dads too. I think my parents had 1 stroller passed down from another family that we used but it didn't fold very easily or even fit well in the trunk of a standard car. I have friends who have an umbrella stroller, a standard stroller, a double stroller and one of those jogging ones with the big wheels that you can jog behind. People need somewhere to use the toys.

When you see these pictures of the "stroller free" 80s its not like there are bands of 2 and 3 year olds walking in the pictures. It's mostly adults. Supports my theory that less very young kids went to WDW. I know childhood obesity is an issue, but I don't think it's a big factor in why there are more strollers.

 

[JAN J]

Well the strollers do bother me. Those doombuggies have taken over public space. They are like cars in a once pedestrian area.

Toddlerland, formerly Fantasyland:

Adventureland. Once a calm tropical oasis in the MK, now you move like ants between the plastic toons, spinner and strollers packed with enough food and gear for a six week jungle expedition:

EPCOT's Clone Army, ready to overthrow the Republic:

Classic MK! No strollers! No clogged Fantasyland! Before the Fantasyland Diminishing Project of recent years, FL already featured fountains, waterstreams, shade, resting places, rides, manouverable pathways. To boot, also a Bavarian hillside to go with the Bavarian hillside town architecture.
It's all gone. Turned into a Toon Toilet. [insert some wordplay with 'down the toilet'] Because people drink out of horse buckets nowadays they had to build extra toilets, the skyway had to go for want of disciplined guests, and the area needed to be widened to accomodate those forty million SUV strollers.

A picture is worth 1,000 words. You just showed a very truth image of the stroller effect.

In January 2013 I went to WDW with my 6 years old niece, and her mother was pregnant so she took her with a stroller so not to keep running after her. I was placed in charge "driving her around" in that kart and not only do they severely limit our motion speed (cause six years old and babies have different weights) but looking for those strollers after a ride is like looking for your car in a parking lot, time consuming and not any fun.

I miss the days when parents and kids just walked hand in hand.

BTW, that last picture is just beautiful.

 

[PeterAlt]

There is something seriously wrong with Disney upper management. They are sitting on so many great assets that they are not taking advantage of. For example, watch this trailer for The Black Hole, a film they released in 1979:



By the way, the trailer is better than the movie, but it shows the potential of this asset. A modern remake (in the spirit of Tron Legacy) would have potential, as would a new E-ticket special effects-based thrill ride for Tomorrowland...

 

[djlaosc]

Generic merchandise

Outrageous prices

That sums it up well.

Fans always seem to post great ideas online. Some ideas I remember include the aforementioned IASW rubberheads (perhaps by Pop Figures?) plus inexpensive attraction posters (instead of pricey art prints); attraction-specific T-shirts; digital downloads (all BGM and attraction soundtracks, professional attraction photos, nostalgia images); Pooh-branded honey treats; cowboy gear; and park-exclusive collections of the old cartoons.

The primary thing is, this stuff has to be affordable and desirable. Almost every time Disney releases something that's attraction-specific, it's an expensive collectible that starts its shelf life at the Art of Disney and ends up at outlet malls. Disney needs to offer a broader range of price points, especially because very few people will drop hundreds of dollars in Art of Disney, regardless of whether or not they can afford the merch. When it's all said and done, even those in the upper 1% can't justify $85 for a POTC poster.

I remember looking all over when we were there in 2011 for postcard-sized version of the old attraction posters - there were none available, and the print on demand wouldn't go that small - so that money was just kept in the wallet - some of us don't have the space/don't want gigantic attraction posters on the wall, but a framed set of 9 postcard-sized prints would have been nice!

 

[Goofyernmost]

I took this picture in DLP for exactly an occasion such as this. The pic shows, apart from white people all weighing less than 450lbs, the stroller parking area (note the sign) of Frontierland, in the middle of August. Not a single stroller parked!

There are two strollers visible on the left. These are tiny and compact, like European and Japanese cars, and are actually used for very small children.
It's a veritable time machine! America and WDW used to look like this in the 18th centur...no wait, as little as thirty years ago.

View attachment 33070

Your right about the strollers, but one must remember that around 30 years ago both in California and in Florida it was one park. And neither one was that big. They still don't need strollers in MK, but for some unknown reason people still carry half their households with them to the park and they get strollers (that Disney introduced there, I might add) and everything that they purchase along the way gets stuck in there as well. And please, please refrain from the tired old crap about people being overweight and then compounding it by identifying by saying "white people". Really? 450lbs? Exaggerate much? Maybe around here we don't live on wine and cigarettes quite as much.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I mean, heck, I saw more than one family with kids around 4 or 5 using a stroller...on the Disney Fantasy. One family even had a double stroller that they'd use on the ship!

Heard this complaint too. Would not want to be stuck in the elevators or smaller hallways and deck areas with too many strollers around.

 

[GoofGoof]

What Rolling Stone article? By the way, Miami isn't an "ordinary" city by any measure. They do things their own way there and most of the time logic is left out of the equation. I went to Miami Beach a few weeks ago and the beach turned into one big night club (during the day). People brought in their own sound systems. It was one big unorganized free party. You don't see things like that happening anywhere else.

Google rolling stone magazine and Miami ecological disaster. The story is a hypothetical situation where in 2030 a hurricane hits Miami burying it under storm surge killing hundreds and essentially destroying the water system, shorting out underground electrical wiring leaving the power out indefinitely and threating a nuclear power plant. The hypothetical is based on the theory of rising sea levels due to climate change. Some experts apparently think that by the year 2030 Miami could be in mortal danger due to this. Not a real happy read.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You bring up a good point. All pictures from the 70's and 80's you will be hard pressed to find more than one stroller in any picture of WDW crowds.

When did society as a whole become so lazy that all children must be chauffeured in their own personal stroller?

As soon as Disney offered rental strollers at a low price. They now have raised the price but the habit is in place.

 

[Goofyernmost]

A picture is worth 1,000 words. You just showed a very truth image of the stroller effect.

In January 2013 I went to WDW with my 6 years old niece, and her mother was pregnant so she took her with a stroller so not to keep running after her. I was placed in charge "driving her around" in that kart and not only do they severely limit our motion speed (cause six years old and babies have different weights) but looking for those strollers after a ride is like looking for your car in a parking lot, time consuming and not any fun.

I miss the days when parents and kids just walked hand in hand.

No that just showed camera angle trickery. I hate strollers or mostly the publics perception of their need, but I don't think that trick photography (forced perspective) is the way to combat it.

 

[Megalodumb]

As soon as Disney offered rental strollers at a low price. They now have raised the price but the habit is in place.

It would conserve a lot more space if Disney would eliminate (most) of the strollers and rent out child leashes instead. Less hassle to maintain, fewer cluttered footpaths, and still gets the job done.

 

[stlphil]

Small World is still there and I'm sure that when you first rode 7DMT is was boring. Oh wait, you don't even know what 7DMT will be like, it's not completed yet. I'm sure that any adult that could possibly enjoy Small World, Peter Pan or Snow White would hate the Mine Train ride because it will be to immature. Besides Snow which wasn't all that great anyway, was basically replaced by Mermaid, which at least had some movement inside. Except for possible convenience 20K should have been in Adventureland anyway.

It's silly to continue to look at either the bands or the cards as anything other then tools that we use and if it is easier to wave your arm then to reach into your pocket or backpack and dig out your card then that would be what it is for. If not, I'm sure they will let you continue using the card. Does the same thing anyway. The following is not the same thing, I realize, but all I can think of is those prepaid things for toll roads. Is it easier to fish around for money or a pass, stop and either show the pass or aim properly and throw money at a plastic basket or to just drive through at 50 MPH. When it works like I suspect it was intended to work, it will be much more convenient then a card.

Agreed that this has been debated to death, but I just want to point out that false analogies like this are probably what sold the idea of the bands to execs who never go into the parks as normal customers.

The true analogy would be toll booths or passes during bumper-to-bumper traffic jams of crawling traffic, where it doesn't really matter if you have a speed pass or dig out cash to throw in a basket. Because when have you ever bought anything in the parks that you didn't have to wait in line (usually long) for? Time that can easily be used to get out your wallet while you are waiting.

 

[nor'easter]

And please, please refrain from the tired old crap about people being overweight and then compounding it by identifying by saying "white people". Really? 450lbs? Exaggerate much? Maybe around here we don't live on wine and cigarettes quite as much.

No, more like beer and fast food.

Sorry, but it's true...just look around. There is a disproportionate number of obese people at Disney World.

 

[lazyboy97o]

When did society as a whole become so lazy that all children must be chauffeured in their own personal stroller?

I think it is more selfishness. Mommy and daddy just have to have their magical Disney vacation and the little ones are going to be dragged around all day through the crowds, shotgunning to attractions and dining reservations.

I'll go back to my original comment. Before I had kids or a stroller I never went into the stroller parking areas so I didn't really notice them and I definitely wouldn't bother taking a picture of them. I'm sure they were there. I still really don't see the problem if there is a roped off area for people to park strollers and its filled with strollers. IMHO Disney does a really good job keeping the stroller parking organized and out of the way so the walking paths are not blocked. We can agree to disagree on this one.

I don't know how you cannot see the swarms of strollers sitting right out in plane sight.

 

[JAN J]

No that just showed camera angle trickery. I hate strollers or mostly the publics perception of their need, but I don't think that trick photography (forced perspective) is the way to combat it.

I can`t really say what the most effective way to combat it is, I`m merely pointing fingers. I`m not a parent so I don`t think I`m fit to judge stroller need. However, regardless of photo perspective, it`s become really evident that the number of strollers has grown exponentially. I just couldn`t believe when I saw how many areas are now dedicated to stroller parking that previously were non existant.

 

[wdisney9000]

No, more like beer and fast food.

Sorry, but it's true...just look around. There is a disproportionate number of obese people at Disney World.

this guy has clearly let himself go!

 

[GoofGoof]

I. don't know how you cannot see the swarms of strollers sitting right out in plane sight.

Like I said, I'm sure they were there. I just don't remember ever noticing them or talking about them during or after my trips or strollers really having any impact on my vacation at all. I guess I was just in my own world enjoying myself. I do notice them now since I have had a stroller with me and use the stroller parking areas.

I think it is more selfishness. Mommy and daddy just have to have their magical Disney vacation and the little ones are going to be dragged around all day through the crowds, shotgunning to attractions and dining reservations.

Just an observation, but this kinda contradicts another recurring theme around here. If Disney builds anything that is geared towards small children with their interests in mind we get the "what would Walt think" line because Disney parks were supposed to be enjoyed by the whole family together not just attractions for little kids. The parks shouldn't be just about the kids but were built for the adult's enjoyment too. Then at the same time you get the whole "selfish parents" argument. Parents who bring young kids to WDW are just selfish. They are only out for their own enjoyment at the detriment of their kids. The two seem to contradict each other. If those parents were all really selfish wouldn't they be skipping the meet and greets and Fantasyland rides like the Carousel and Dumbo and just doing child swaps at Space Mountain and Everest? Again, just an observation for thought. In no way am I trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your kids on vacation. That's none of my business.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just an observation, but this kinda contradicts another recurring theme around here. If Disney builds anything that is geared towards small children with their interests in mind we get the "what would Walt think" line because Disney parks were supposed to be enjoyed by the whole family together not just attractions for little kids. The parks shouldn't be just about the kids but were built for the adult's enjoyment too. Then at the same time you get the whole "selfish parents" argument. Parents who bring young kids to WDW are just selfish. They are only out for their own enjoyment at the detriment of their kids. The two seem to contradict each other. If those parents were all really selfish wouldn't they be skipping the meet and greets and Fantasyland rides like the Carousel and Dumbo and just doing child swaps at Space Mountain and Everest? Again, just an observation for thought. In no way am I trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your kids on vacation. That's none of my business.

They're not necessarily contradictory. Vicarious living. Making the kids have a magical vacation but being completely oblivious that it's past the point of enjoyable for the kids. The classic example is the parent pushing a kid into a sport the parent loves.

Edit to add: There are also a component of Disney fans who don't want to have a sort of childlike innocence and adventurousness, but the permission to sort of regress and act childish. So while the attractions may aim at a younger set, that is perfect for these adults to who see it as a better, more complete escape into childhood.

 

[Megalodumb]

There is a disproportionate number of obese people at Disney World.

But not at Tokyo Disneyland.

Obesity is an American thing, not a Disney thing.