Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[rael ramone]

They preach family values and gambling not being compatible when it suits their profit motive and then engage in it elsewhere at the same time. It is Disney defending its turf on one hand while dealing a hand with the other.

While 'righteous indignation' is called for (whether it's as a Disney fan that doesn't want it sullied with gambling and the vices attached to it or just a shareholder who sees this as something that damages the long-term BRAND), I think this is just 'par for the course'...

What the name Disney means to the Weatherman is an entitlement - to do whatever it wants to make money without question from anyone (from the fans, the press, or members of Congress) - and as a weapon to be used against it's competition.

A company that really stands for 'family values', when presented with a law to protect the youngest members of those families, would not only make sure they didn't do anything to violate the spirit & intent of the law, but would go a step further and give it a much wider berth...

 

[Sue_Vongello]

Here's why WDW is not getting more of my money in 2013:

The only things we have to talk about is that there are no announcements, gambling morality/ethics in relation to marketing, and other stupid issues and ... infighting among ourselves?

MEANWHILE, rumors are gaining steam that Uni plans to add not just a JP expansion but also a big LORAX attraction in 2015 ...

WAKE THE @$#@%#@ UP, WDW!!!

 

[muteki]

I remember seeing Star Wars slots in casinos long before the acquisition of the IP by Disney. Do casinos own the machines or just lease them out?

If they own them, Disney can't really go in and pull them off the casino floor can they? Not to mention they may not own the company that made them, that probably just licensed the IP from Lucas back in the day.

Edit: reading a few pages back this is about Marvel, nevermind.

 

[wogwog]

Maybe it was $70 a gallon but I just asked my friend what it was and I will post it here. I just know thousands of dollars were budgeted and all they got was popcorn or cupcakes and iced tea.

Edit: it was $75 a gallon

Much more reasonable. The Mouse is not afraid to put up a price. I socialize with some WDW folks who hold periodic departmental meetings. If they opt for refreshments from the Mouse it is a charge against the department budget. A big charge. They prefer to buy the refreshments off property, haul them in, and expense the items. Makes the budget last longer. You would think the bean counters would see this was not a great process.

 

[alphac2005]

Is it? From this article:

http://epublicgaming.com/index.php?...-instant-games-&catid=30:us-lottery&Itemid=30

"Alpharetta, GA – November 16, 2011 – MDI Entertainment, LLC, a subsidiary of Scientific Games, has reached an agreement with Marvel Entertainment, LLC, to offer instant lottery games featuring characters and themes from the widely anticipated film “Marvel’s The Avengers,” due for release on May 4, 2012"

This was about a year after Disney acquired Marvel so this was not a contract that existed pre-Disney.

Right down the street from where I live. They (Scientific Games) are the biggest manufacturer of lottery tickets in the country. And if you (or immediate household members) are employed by the company, you are unable to get those Avengers lotto tickets because household members aren't allowed to play the lottery due to appearance and prize winning fixing allegations that could occur.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Again, it doesn't matter what your opinion is about casinos. It's the fact that Disney has bought and fought considerably to keep casinos out of FL while profiting immensely from them. Hypocrisy with a touch of Pixie Dust.

Well, whatever works! Kidding... don't throw anything, I bruise easily. Anyway again, it isn't really hypocrisy in my viewpoint. Deceptive...OK. I can see that. They are fighting to keep Casino's out of their piggy bank in Florida and since they won't get anywhere saying that it is because they don't want the cash loss. If they did their argument will not be taken seriously. If they say we have got too protect the kiddies. Then they hit a soft spot. I wish I could say that this is a relatively new approach used by businesses of today only, but, sorry, but it has been happening for years and certainly Disney doesn't hold the patient on it. Laughingly, no matter what Disney uses as an excuse other then keep the competition away, will and is seen through, by the legislatures, like a broken window. But for a public stand it is plausible and something that the politicians can hide behind to disguise Disney economic power in central Florida. Not that many years ago casino's and "the Mob" were interchangeable. It's an easy sell.

In the meantime, if they feel that using an IP as artwork and theme(?) on a gambling machine that children are not going to probably even see, much less use or be influenced by, they see no reason to not pursue that endeavor. If they really and seriously and without a doubt had a moral conviction connected with the desire to keep gambling out of Florida to protect the kiddies, then they would be hypocritical right now. Since I don't see how they are in the least serious about anything other then preventing an alternate path for available cash, then what they are doing is deceiving that public. If they were serious they would be morally fighting it in every state in the union and every country in the world. Do I think that is any better, no not really, but as they said in a few good men, kinda! "The public can't handle the truth about how business operates behind the scenes, now and since the beginning of time." I can hear Jack Nicholson speaking those words as I type them.

 

[flynnibus]

I remember seeing Star Wars slots in casinos long before the acquisition of the IP by Disney. Do casinos own the machines or just lease them out?

That varies state to state. In some places, the state actually owns the games and leases them to the casinos. In other areas, casinos are able to make all kinds of arrangements with the vendors.

The one constant you can count on.. if the game is earning... people won't let it go

 

[alphac2005]

Typical of every casino ever outside of places like Vegas. They're always just full of old people blowing away their life savings for hours on end. The most offensive thing to me about casinos is that they are just depressing.

They simply are depressing. It's quite sad to watch the retiree in a wheelchair with an oxygen tank taking every cent of their Social Security check and stuffing it into a slot machine.

 

[flynnibus]

Now what if we examine the possibility that the Aulani MF's were honestly calculated and only supported the DVC member portion of the budget NOT the entire resort operating budget?. Recall it took a really long time for sales to restart and HI has really strict timeshare laws designed to prevent timeshare owners from subsidizing hotel operations. Hmmmm....

But why would all of a sudden the same guy... start calculating 'honestly'? Your inferring Disney inflates the numbers.. this guy does the numbers.. and oops.. maybe those numbers are too low because for once they are the 'legit' numbers. Why would the same guy all of a sudden change the way they operate? You mention strict timeshare laws... but if that were a factor, they would be bound to the 'honest' numbers and not be able to raise them afterwards (which they did). I'm not following the breadcrumbs here...

 

[flynnibus]

Again, it doesn't matter what your opinion is about casinos. It's the fact that Disney has bought and fought considerably to keep casinos out of FL while profiting immensely from them. Hypocrisy with a touch of Pixie Dust.

'profiting immensely' from them? You base that on what?

 

[The Visionary Soul]

But why would all of a sudden the same guy... start calculating 'honestly'? Your inferring Disney inflates the numbers.. this guy does the numbers.. and oops.. maybe those numbers are too low because for once they are the 'legit' numbers. Why would the same guy all of a sudden change the way they operate? You mention strict timeshare laws... but if that were a factor, they would be bound to the 'honest' numbers and not be able to raise them afterwards (which they did). I'm not following the breadcrumbs here...

Everything I've read says that guy used the Florida costs as guidelines to decide how much money Aulani would need to run. Never mind that the property is in Hawaii and everything costs more over there.

 

[ford91exploder]

But why would all of a sudden the same guy... start calculating 'honestly'? Your inferring Disney inflates the numbers.. this guy does the numbers.. and oops.. maybe those numbers are too low because for once they are the 'legit' numbers. Why would the same guy all of a sudden change the way they operate? You mention strict timeshare laws... but if that were a factor, they would be bound to the 'honest' numbers and not be able to raise them afterwards (which they did). I'm not following the breadcrumbs here...

Because if you recall Jim Lewis was 'new' to DVC Aulani was his first resort, so he may not have known better.

As to why Disney was able to raise the MF's Disney has the VERY best CPA's and Lawyers on staff and I'm sure they were able to come up with something which HI's legal team was unable to counter after all these guys are generally on first jobs out of school making 60-80k, I'm pretty sure the best of wall st can beat the state guys.

 

[WildcatDen]

or who's funding it....

Clearly the NSA, Derp.

 

[ChrisM]

BS. If no one cared, I wouldn't have awakened to five pages of posts talking about it. Most (sadly) either restating the obvious: Disney just uses family values as a convenient excuse. It really doesn't wish to take on mega-casino resorts for business. ... Or they act as if Marvel characters are somehow different from every other Disney IP and can be used in a business that Disney vehemently opposes and runs totally counter to the company's squeaky clean image.

The only reason anyone "cares" is that they fall into one of two categories:

(1) The one-step-removed-from-full-pixie-dust addicts that allow themselves to believe they are interested in the Walt Disney Company's management and financial well being but are simply using it as a rationalization so as to not fully internalize the amount of time they spend thinking, writing, visiting, and talking about a theme park.

(2) The army of sycophants who hang on your every word given your inside info and connections with the company. Just another shade of the "I once passed by <insert celebrity here> in my movie aisle and couldn't figure out whether to go with crotch or a$$!" syndrome. Maybe if they pass by a few more times you might deign to acknowledge their existence!

And honestly, that's cool. I completely understand both sides of it (to a degree). It's pretty fun to be popular, regardless of the circle you're popular in, and rubbing shoulders (even virtually) with someone "in the know" can be pretty heady stuff to those that care.

But, in this particular example (and your tinfoil hat rantings concerning NextGen), I think you're spending a little too much time inside your head - and your personal crusade against Disney management - and dumping it all here, as opposed to hitting topics broadside that the vast majority here care about. Disney properties festooned on slot machines? I suppose that's of mildly passing interest. But not much. Specifics about certain executives, their behavior, and the impact on the parks? Much more interesting.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if you feel this isn't a potential minefield of problems for The Mouse you are dead wrong.

Since my opinion is "I don't care whether this is a potential minefield of problems", there is no question of wrong or right.

I know, I know...."get out of my thread/lawn". Maybe I'll go with crotch this time.

 

[ford91exploder]

Here's why WDW is not getting more of my money in 2013:

The only things we have to talk about is that there are no announcements, gambling morality/ethics in relation to marketing, and other stupid issues and ... infighting among ourselves?

MEANWHILE, rumors are gaining steam that Uni plans to add not just a JP expansion but also a big LORAX attraction in 2015 ...

WAKE THE @$#@%#@ UP, WDW!!!

Why would they - they have plenty of cash rolling in now until the weatherman is gone, Do you think Iger actually cares what happens to Disney after he cashes his last check???, We do but he does not.

 

[ford91exploder]

Everything I've read says that guy used the Florida costs as guidelines to decide how much money Aulani would need to run. Never mind that the property is in Hawaii and everything costs more over there.

Now I've heard the same thing but given recent events I'm having a hard time accepting it, MF's are supposed to be based on actual expenses. Since Aulani was more expensive than first thought as was AKL before they figured out animal care expenses MF's would be artificially low for the first year only and then they would increase to match reality as did AKL's, Tough on buyers but remember the HHI storm damage assessment which was also tough on buyers

Now if the BASIS for the member fees was not correct say it only covered DVC units (as it SHOULD) and not entire resorts that would be why they restated the entire thing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well, color me naive that they would actually extend their IP brand to gambling. Movies are one thing, it's art (so are comics, whether people want to accept that or not) and it's understandable they want to make a broadbase of films to tap into every market. But actually use their IP, especially when said IP is being marketed at kids, specifically in some instances, that does shock me. I don't see it as comparable to Quentin, because they aren't marketing Pulp Fiction to children. It shocks me a lot, actually.

I just don't see the cross over. Where are kids learning about te casino games and if they do, what is the impact on them?

 

[flynnibus]

Really, it wasn't that long ago when people on this very board were arguing against certain IP's being used in the parks because it was family-oriented and wholesome, because that's what Disney is. And Avatar was pointed out as something being too mature. AVATAR!

Because it's possible for one company.. to actually market and brand products separately.

Were you so upset when Splash came out? And movies like Down and Out in Beverly Hills? Or what about movies with titles 'Shoot to Kill' (that sounds real Disney doesn't it???)

People could accept that even tho it was Disney... Disney could segment itself and actually deliver more than one type of product. The same thing happens here.

Avatar on the other hand... is not being licensed for use in some isolated silo.. but was licensed for use WITHIN the 'family friend' product. There is no isolation there.. but mixing.

There are two 'issues' highlighted by Marvel licensing its IP to gaming
1) The idea that using Marvel IP in gaming is counter to the parent company's image
2) The idea that Disney fights against gambling in Florida while one of its subsidiaries does business with the gaming industry

The first one is nothing new for Disney.. given the film studio examples prior. Its nothing shocking.. it's the basis of why so many companies maintain subsidiaries to manage their brands. Disney is a media conglomerate now.. it manages many brands.. not just one brand.

The second one is just calling a spade a spade. Disney is fighting gambling in FL as a competitor.. not because it believes TWDC is the moral beacon for Florida citizens.

 

[GoofGoof]

But only 150 rooms at BLT are declared as DVC units, the rest belong to CRO

Not trying to be argumentative, but that is not true. It may have been in 2009 or 2010 when all of the points were not sold, but as of June 30, 2011 DVD declared 100% of their available rooms at BLT tower for DVC inventory. This included the equivalent of 267 2 bedroom villas and 14 3 bedroom villas. What's left for Disney cash reservations is less than 5% of inventory. In any given year as owners trade in points for cruises or non-DVC hotel rooms Disney will assume additional cash rooms in replacement.

Here's some simple math. The average 2 bedroom villa goes for 370 points a week. If there are the equivalent of 267 2 bedroom units declared that works out to 5.1 million points. The 14 3 bedroom villas average about 870 points a week or the equivalent of 600K additional points. That adds to 5.7M points. The total points available for sale is 5,733,350. If your number is correct and there are only 150 rooms for DVC but 5.5M points sold the average weekly rental would be about 705 points per room (5.5M divided by 150 divided by 52 weeks). Check out the point charts. It's high, but not that high

 

[GoofGoof]

Actually, you proved my argument that DVC is misusing Dues to finance operating budget of entire resort for CRO and DVC, Out of the total rooms in BLT DVC only has 150 rooms dedicated to DVC According to the membership documents members are only paying for the services rendered to members not the entire resort.

On the housekeeping line item I was being generous and assumed that all rooms cleaned daily but assuming 1 week stays each DVC unit would only be cleaned twice based on the contracted housekeeping, Any others are charged at $35 per cleaning to the requesting member.

Assuming my assertions are true AND WDW1974's occupancy figures are accurate it seems DVC is responsible for carrying the operating budget load for the resorts division and CRO is now pure profit. Which explains the rush to add DVC to Poly

Now Jim Lewis is about the most hated figure in the DVC pantheon of executives because of the Aulani Member Fees being too low to support resort operations and Disney had to stop sales and subsidize MF's for existing purchasers, Now what if we examine the possibility that the Aulani MF's were honestly calculated and only supported the DVC member portion of the budget NOT the entire resort operating budget?. Recall it took a really long time for sales to restart and HI has really strict timeshare laws designed to prevent timeshare owners from subsidizing hotel operations. Hmmmm....

You are correct that the rooms aren't cleaned daily, but they are also quite a bit larger than an average hotel room. A 2 bedroom villa has 2 bedrooms, 3 full bathrooms and a full kitchen and living room. In your average hotel room its 1 bathroom and a bedroom. The 267 equivalent 2 bedroom villas is actually more than 534 regular rooms and the 3 bedroom villas are like cleaning at least 3 hotel rooms so its the equivalent of at least 576 regular hotel rooms. Daily housekeeping at a hotel consists of making the bed and replacing towels with a little straightening up. They only fully clean the room at checkout. I'm just not seeing the big conspiracy here, but we can agree to disagree.