Todd H
Well-Known Member
I don't know how I missed it originally but I just read that doc and am now speechless...
Wow.
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Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...
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I don't know how I missed it originally but I just read that doc and am now speechless...
Wow.
Atomicmickey
Well-Known Member
Where did that doc come from? It doesn't read like an "internal" doc?
First, you might have created your account in 2010, but you only posted twice before starting to post a lot last summer. So, yes, by all means you are still a new voice in this community. Given how new you are you have been met with a lot of trust. Anyone claiming to have as much inside knowledge as you claim to have has in the past been met with a lot of scepticism.
Secondly, why are you a poster who again and again claims to have no ego and no interest in being important on the message boards without anyone prompting you to do so? You also tried to discredit @WDW1974 in the past in a thread - and at the same time asked him more or less to validate your insider status:
Hey, you were even eagerly waiting for a phone call from @Lee or @WDW1974 in that same thread:
Sorry, but I don't believe you when you say that your own self importance does not matter to you.
Combining this with threatening to make private discussions public - and yes, even private name calling, if it had truly happened, would still be private - I really start to wonder what your deal is. One gets the feeling that you are indeed ed off that you don't get @WDW1974 's attention as you would have wanted to. And when his PM's don't have the content you want you are angry with him.
Darth Sidious
Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
They are capable of new and exciting... See Disney California Adventure.
Oh, it is quite a perfidious tactic to discredit someone. You claim someone did attack you in a private message. If they dare to defend themeselves, you threaten to make the private message public. But if they would ever dare to put out the private discussion in public themselves, you can cry a violation of privacy and get the other poster banned - or at least discredited. My guess is that @WDW1974 is too smart to let himself be dragged into this - and values privacy far too much to breach it.
Atomicmickey
Well-Known Member
I long for the day, if it will ever come, that we can all discuss upcoming attractions instead of upcoming turnstiles and benches and datamining and DVC.
The magic has lost its way . . . .
The magic has lost its way . . . .
Trolls, language and plants.
Guys, this thread is becoming harder and harder to keep open.
Trolls will always exist, and will come into forums to deliberately try to wind you up and cause havoc. This happens on every forum, and is very difficult to eliminate. Whenever identified I take action to try to minimize the impact of trolls. However, you can help by NOT engaging with obvious trolls - arguing with them just amplifies their behavior. The best course of action is to simply ignore.
Secondly, please be mindful of your language. Not only am I dealing with cleaning up troll activity, I'm also going through dealing with reported posts about members who have been here for years who are using inappropriate language. These members obviously know better - they have been here long enough to know what is OK on a family site.
Third, can we please stop the accusations that that anyone who does not agree with an opinion is some kind of paid plant. These constant accusations make the site very unattractive to any new members who may wish to join in the conversation, and is not helpful to our community.
Guys, this thread is becoming harder and harder to keep open.
Trolls will always exist, and will come into forums to deliberately try to wind you up and cause havoc. This happens on every forum, and is very difficult to eliminate. Whenever identified I take action to try to minimize the impact of trolls. However, you can help by NOT engaging with obvious trolls - arguing with them just amplifies their behavior. The best course of action is to simply ignore.
Secondly, please be mindful of your language. Not only am I dealing with cleaning up troll activity, I'm also going through dealing with reported posts about members who have been here for years who are using inappropriate language. These members obviously know better - they have been here long enough to know what is OK on a family site.
Third, can we please stop the accusations that that anyone who does not agree with an opinion is some kind of paid plant. These constant accusations make the site very unattractive to any new members who may wish to join in the conversation, and is not helpful to our community.
Darth Sidious
Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
Thanks Steve, you run a good site.
Well, after reading through all the hilarity on this thread (which just now lost three pages...) I finally got around to look at the answers Disney gave. The true insult is not in the wording of the letter, but in claiming that that attachement answers the questions posed.
It starts with the one question so many of us are truly interest in: Where does it answer question 1.b - what happens to a consumer who opts out? The answer kind of implies that MyMagic+ only ensures that everything is stored in one place. But stating the enhancements gained for those who opt in is not an answer to the question for the disadvantages that might fall on those who opt out.
Also, it does not really address the question whether MyMagic+ is an "opt-in-system" or an "opt-out-system", i.e. what is the default setting? The answer that the system is optional does not answer this.
It also does not answer the question whether consumers are given the ability to review the information stored about them.
If one had the time to go through the questions one at a time, it is very obvious that many questions have not been answered.
It starts with the one question so many of us are truly interest in: Where does it answer question 1.b - what happens to a consumer who opts out? The answer kind of implies that MyMagic+ only ensures that everything is stored in one place. But stating the enhancements gained for those who opt in is not an answer to the question for the disadvantages that might fall on those who opt out.
Also, it does not really address the question whether MyMagic+ is an "opt-in-system" or an "opt-out-system", i.e. what is the default setting? The answer that the system is optional does not answer this.
It also does not answer the question whether consumers are given the ability to review the information stored about them.
If one had the time to go through the questions one at a time, it is very obvious that many questions have not been answered.
Genie of the Lamp
Well-Known Member
So, is anyone else here willing to tell Mr.Iger about their concerns/displeasure/distaste of the Next Gen Initiative? I'd be interested to see the type of response he would come up for someone like us vs. the one he gave Markey.
flynnibus
Premium Member
No location stuff in the hats themselves. They operate by being manipulated by the transmitters in the area. Zones with multiple channels, etc.
Monty
Brilliant...and Canadian
- In the Parks
- No
Assuming the document is legitimate, which despite the Spirit's reputation is not a given... It clearly has to be a very early document in the NextGen development and presumably has been entirely negated by the information we already have about the MagicBands: they are not "GPS-enabled" in the form that was announced widely.
So... If it is legitimately from someone inside the project, it is sufficiently out-dated to be of no value. Of course, this feeds my personal opinion that the Spirit is deliberately stirring the pot for his own agenda, whatever that may be.
GrumpyFan
Well-Known Member
This is a very polarizing subject. You're either totally against it, or you see no issue to worry about. Guess which camp I'm in?
In all the comments I've seen though, I've yet to see anyone explain why having Disney "track" you at WDW is a bad/dangerous thing, or what it is we have to worry about?
Would somebody mind telling me why this is a bad thing? What is it you are worried about Disney doing with your touring information? Sure, I get that they will know what I ride, buy, eat, but haven't they already know most of this? It probably wasn't as detailed as what it will be with the MagicBand, but they could still build analytical data which they could use to influence how I toured the parks.
I know the information they collect will likely be used to try and further influence me while at WDW to spend more money, but I'm not afraid that it will be in such a way that I'm worried. By that I mean, this is something they and every retailer, TV show, commercial, movie theater has been doing for years in a mostly subtle way, and this is just the natural evolution of that. I don't expect there to be a hard push or even (overtly) subliminal messages to make me buy stuff any more than they've done in the past, because I know that if they try and do this in a way that would cross the line, there would be a huge outcry. So, what is it I'm missing in the paranoia?
In all the comments I've seen though, I've yet to see anyone explain why having Disney "track" you at WDW is a bad/dangerous thing, or what it is we have to worry about?
Would somebody mind telling me why this is a bad thing? What is it you are worried about Disney doing with your touring information? Sure, I get that they will know what I ride, buy, eat, but haven't they already know most of this? It probably wasn't as detailed as what it will be with the MagicBand, but they could still build analytical data which they could use to influence how I toured the parks.
I know the information they collect will likely be used to try and further influence me while at WDW to spend more money, but I'm not afraid that it will be in such a way that I'm worried. By that I mean, this is something they and every retailer, TV show, commercial, movie theater has been doing for years in a mostly subtle way, and this is just the natural evolution of that. I don't expect there to be a hard push or even (overtly) subliminal messages to make me buy stuff any more than they've done in the past, because I know that if they try and do this in a way that would cross the line, there would be a huge outcry. So, what is it I'm missing in the paranoia?
Darth Sidious
Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
If you'd like to read the letter and attachments they are embedded in the following post: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ons-and-opinions.857322/page-196#post-5299198
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Nothing...you have pretty much nailed it. No one can be forced to succumb to any attempt to make them buy more, spend more or whatever. It is an individual choice. If their methods make it an unpleasant place to be then you can bet that people will stop going there. I know I will. It's not an idol threat, it's reality. I go to Disney because I enjoy my time there. When/if the time comes that it no longer fulfills that need for me, I will have no desire to go there any longer. Nostalgia is only a portion of my motivation. I, historically, do not stay on site and I am, of course, curious as to how this is going to affect my visit, however, the first time I go there after all is in place, I will know and that is where my judgement will come from.
My business background tells me that there are about a million things that this system can do, from what little I know about it, that will strengthen their ability to plan, merchandise and improve the park experience for others. As with any system, including none at all, there are always possibilities that abuse can happen, but for the life of me, I cannot see any that have been so feverishly mentioned seem to be realistic, logically or otherwise. Or ones that insist on taking personal responsibility away from the consumer even more the our society already has.
I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and say that one of the reasons that they haven't supplied information about how this will impact those that opt out, is because they haven't made all the decisions yet that will define them.
Since I already have at least 20 posts expressing my concern about my location being tracked by a corporation ...
...
In other words, Disney will collect location information but not share it if you can figure out which one of about 50 boxes to uncheck. But they will still collect and use it. They just won't share it. Didn't their parents ever teach them to share?
...
“Big Brother is Watching You.”
Concerns over corporations tracking us should have been made long ago. There are probably very few people who actually pay attention to or comprehend what they have opted in for when they install apps on their smart phones. Giving up your location is usually a permission on the most insignificant of apps that are released today. Everyone just clicks OK, sure, go ahead and install it, I want to play this stupid game. Android/Apple/Windows devices all have full GPS units and somewhere along the line, most people have probably on purpose or inadvertently given permission for the OS or an app to use their location for whatever innocuous reason but it's still the same result. Tracking is happening today and it's not just Disney. Apply tinfoil hat now if you'd like to opt out.
yoyoflamingo
Well-Known Member
I wonder if Iger bought Marvel just so he could turn into the Hulk without paying a fee?
Darth Sidious
Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
Except Iger isn't turning into the Hulk... Rather he sorta curls up and explodes out while transforming into MICHAEL EISNER. He's Eisnering up!
I agree - it appears that people either believe that a right to have control over how much personal data others know about them is essential or not.
For me it is quite clear, I do think this is one of the biggest issues in modern society and we are still forming the ethical and legal framework to deal with it. Sometimes reality moves faster than ethics and the law.
Look at the early years of industrialisation when it was still legal to have young children work for a pittance in the textile factories because their little fingers were so much more apt for certain tasks in the weaving looms and spinning machines. We don't consider that acceptable anymore.
Privacy is a more difficult subject. Intrusion into privacy appears to be less harmful on first view as nobody will be in direct danger from it - as compared to the children who lost their fingers - or even lifes - working in those factories.
However, knowledge about someone else always means power. It is in the hand of the one who has the knowledge how they use it. If it is a state like the former German Democratic Republic (i.e. East Germany) that took spying and destroying their citizens' life to an extreme level, it is easy to see how this is a bad thing.
If it is Disney it appears to be a harmless thing. The question however is where does it end: How much information will we need to give up in the future in order to do business with certain companies. That's why the question of the consequences of the opt out is so important. There are stories of employers who demanded access to the Facebook accounts of people who applied for jobs. When will we get to the point when nobody will be hired unless they have a Facebook profile? There is a hunger for knowledge about others - because the data is there. And because companies think they can make money with it. I know that Disney is not the only who does that, but it is very disheartening that a company that I value for its creativity has decided to go into the datamining business.
As I said above, society is still in the process of finding out how to deal with data. I truly think that Disney's initiative is a step in the wrong direction. It can lead us to a world where one day in the future the access to many things we take for granted today is only open to those who are willing to share everything about them.
We have already taken many steps in that direction with the excuse of security.