Spaceship Earth - my opinions of the refurb - very very dissapointing

Thelazer

Well-Known Member
WDI and Epcot Leadership should close the ride for the next year if it takes that long to make the attraction correct and worthwhile!

I'm sorry people want to ride the attraction on their upcoming vacations but I'd rather see a quality ending then the the trash I witnessed today! (ending only)

As for people saying we are stating the obvious...I disagree. If it was so obviously bad to WDI why was it created? And even a better question is if it was so obviously bad why did they open it to their most important fans!!!!

Not so obvious I guess...

Here is your answer.... WDI knew how bad this was. By opening it now, getting the public word out and getting feedback so negitive, managment now HAS to act. Money HAS to be approved, dates of rehab must be pushed back and ALL HANDS ON DECK must be called in to fix this.

In otherwords, what you saw today (and tommorow) is really how bad this ending was going to be. Someone in WDI knew this, pulled a fast one and got the ride open for a soft preview. It was the only way to save a sinking ship!

(my theory at least)

Jay
 

lilredfoxie

New Member
If you remember, there wasnt much there in the Cronkite version in the ending, after the space scene and the window, there was just a few random montiors and the pegboard lights through most of the descent.

Remember, its supposed to open Feburary, theres still a chance they might fix the descent up a bit, perhaps add some more lighting or something to make it nicer
 

dxwwf3

Well-Known Member
Here is your answer.... WDI knew how bad this was. By opening it now, getting the public word out and getting feedback so negitive, managment now HAS to act. Money HAS to be approved, dates of rehab must be pushed back and ALL HANDS ON DECK must be called in to fix this.

In otherwords, what you saw today (and tommorow) is really how bad this ending was going to be. Someone in WDI knew this, pulled a fast one and got the ride open for a soft preview. It was the only way to save a sinking ship!

(my theory at least)

Jay

That's a very interesting theory as well. Makes sense when you think about it too.

If you remember, there wasnt much there in the Cronkite version in the ending, after the space scene and the window, there was just a few random montiors and the pegboard lights through most of the descent.

But in the past versions of SSE the descent of the attraction hit home with the audio, not so much the visuals. From Tomorrow's Child and the meaning behind that to the WONDERFUL score and lights of the Irons version, there was always some great audio and powerful emotion in the finale. Now it seems there is neither.
 

DisneyAnole

New Member
Here is your answer.... WDI knew how bad this was. By opening it now, getting the public word out and getting feedback so negitive, managment now HAS to act. Money HAS to be approved, dates of rehab must be pushed back and ALL HANDS ON DECK must be called in to fix this.

In otherwords, what you saw today (and tommorow) is really how bad this ending was going to be. Someone in WDI knew this, pulled a fast one and got the ride open for a soft preview. It was the only way to save a sinking ship!

(my theory at least)

Jay

I'm sorry, but I think that's giving WDI too much credit. I'm sure they thought the screens were a great idea. They use screens on practically everything now. Look at Nemo at DL. Nemo at Epcot. Gran Fiesta. Monsters Inc. Turtle Talk. Philharmagic. Mission: Space. Midway Mania. Some of those incorporate screens nicely; others don't. WDI probably thought this would be a great idea. The fact that it's so obviously not is what makes me think WDI is clueless nowadays.

But let's face it. This feedback routine is a bunch of bs. The screens have been bought and installed. They aren't going anywhere on SSE. The finale will be screen-based no matter when they officially open the ride. My guess is the only improvement, if any, will be adding lighting effects to the descent tunnel.
 

epcotpalms

Active Member
The screens can't be the finale. They are just boring no matter what they do to them. Shut them off and put the dumb cartoon of "Building the Future" in Project Tomorrow.

Add content!
 

Thelazer

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but I think that's giving WDI too much credit. I'm sure they thought the screens were a great idea. They use screens on practically everything now. Look at Nemo at DL. Nemo at Epcot. Gran Fiesta. Monsters Inc. Turtle Talk. Philharmagic. Mission: Space. Midway Mania. Some of those incorporate screens nicely; others don't. WDI probably thought this would be a great idea. The fact that it's so obviously not is what makes me think WDI is clueless nowadays.

But let's face it. This feedback routine is a bunch of bs. The screens have been bought and installed. They aren't going anywhere on SSE. The finale will be screen-based no matter when they officially open the ride. My guess is the only improvement, if any, will be adding lighting effects to the descent tunnel.

Well, I think you are part right. I think, there are those withen WDI that did not think this was a great idea. They were most likely to afarid to say anything because they needed there job to much. This has been happening for quite sometime at WDI.

It's not that I am saying they will trash the screens and remove them. No.
But I do think... we will see some major changes in how they are used withen the context of the ride itself.
I also think.. we will see spaceship earth open and then close again (Sorta like Imag VER 2.0)

Jay

BTW- Did anyone else notice that some WDI types were in street clothes on the ride watching others reactions?
 

disney4life2008

Well-Known Member
Spaceship Earth Refurb.

Truthfully, Epcot is NOT my favorite theme parks. Its nice but not one of the pullers. My main pull has always been Spaceship Earth as I loved the male narrator and the music- it was very Disneyesque. However, after reading the reviews and seeing the new video of Spaceship Earth, I am VERY DISSAPOINTED. I felt like I was in a nightmare watching the new ride- the female narrator has GOT TO GO! she is horrible and I agree, she sounds like she is a professor. I can imagine kids being bored out their minds on this new ride.

I could be a supporter of the old Disneyworld... all of these new changes and updates I do not like but I guess I (we) all have to deal with them. I do hope that Spaceship Earth will be open on December 18 when we visit Epcot.
 

disnyfan89

Well-Known Member
Maybe its possible that there are a ton of light effects in the finale that just flat out weren't working. Or let's hope so.
That final will need more than just light effects to fix it. The main problem with the end of the ride is the fact its not an end. Right now SSE has a beginning, a middle but no end. We see all this development in the history of technologies and comunication (rising action) and we get to 180 top and we have come to our present (Climax.) But at this point the ride takes a quick jump off the side of cliff giving us a Cliff-hanger. We need some narration that wraps everything up and gives us hope for the future. We need our falling action for our story to truely come to an end. Right now it appears our children will only be left with surveys and crappy flash videos.
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
Why Fans Are Looked Down On--

I've been amazed reading the threads about the SSE revamp! I watched the video and the attraction looks superb. The score sounds great and Judy Dench sounds very good as well.

The animatronics look simply incredible, we have great new show scenes, and all I'm reading about is how the ending is terrible with the video screens. Hm, if I recall, the ending never had much. There is a lot seeing things through rose colored glasses around here including how great Tomorrow's Child was. Sorry, as a child and it bored me to tears and I always gladly skipped it on the Disney soundtracks. I know I'm not the only one around here that thought so.

For all of the complaining about the video screens, I haven't seen any mention of the fact that they review things with trivia bits about things that you saw and are EDUCATIONAL. How many times do people post about the lack of educational ideas being in Epcot around here? A lot.

It's easy to understand how Disney and WDI can dismiss us hardcore fans when it seems that no matter what they do, it's never good enough and there is always an amazing amount of complaining. I personally hope that they add more elements to the end than just the video screens, but the ending has never had much to begin with. The Journey Into Imagination redo was complete garbage and it still is pathetic in relation to the original ride, that's something to moan about.

We have an attraction where they have actually ADDED audio-animatronics and that's quite a good piece of news.
 

angelfaerie52

New Member
A lot of the guests I heard making comments as I left actually said they liked it. I went on twice and then hung around.

My least favorite part was the line about taxes. I was like, "um wut?" Very just... stupid humor.

I think the ascent is amazing.

Did anyone notice the smell of paint? haha.

I am hoping that maybe there are some descent show elements hiding for 2/18? Heh... probably not...

But I am still glad I went today and got on!
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
It's easy to understand how Disney and WDI can dismiss us hardcore fans when it seems that no matter what they do, it's never good enough and there is always an amazing amount of complaining. I personally hope that they add more elements to the end than just the video screens, but the ending has never had much to begin with. The Journey Into Imagination redo was complete garbage and it still is pathetic in relation to the original ride, that's something to moan about.
.

I think that very often Disney do a get a LOT of praise from forums like this. If you look back on things like the El Rio, Pirates and Mansion refurbs, there is very little complaining. The vast majority of people were very happy with how those turned out.

It is possibly the fact that the last few refurbs have turned out so well, that people had such high expectations for Spaceship Earth.
 

disnyfan89

Well-Known Member
It's easy to understand how Disney and WDI can dismiss us hardcore fans when it seems that no matter what they do, it's never good enough and there is always an amazing amount of complaining. I personally hope that they add more elements to the end than just the video screens, but the ending has never had much to begin with.

True the end never has been much! At least not visually. But what was there was an amazing peice of music (im referring to the most recent score has I never had the pleasure of riding the orginal SSE) and a peice of naration that provoked thought and deep meaning to lots of individuals. That's why this end needs to be fixed!
 

Thelazer

Well-Known Member
I've been amazed reading the threads about the SSE revamp! I watched the video and the attraction looks superb. The score sounds great and Judy Dench sounds very good as well.

The animatronics look simply incredible, we have great new show scenes, and all I'm reading about is how the ending is terrible with the video screens. Hm, if I recall, the ending never had much. There is a lot seeing things through rose colored glasses around here including how great Tomorrow's Child was. Sorry, as a child and it bored me to tears and I always gladly skipped it on the Disney soundtracks. I know I'm not the only one around here that thought so.

For all of the complaining about the video screens, I haven't seen any mention of the fact that they review things with trivia bits about things that you saw and are EDUCATIONAL. How many times do people post about the lack of educational ideas being in Epcot around here? A lot.

It's easy to understand how Disney and WDI can dismiss us hardcore fans when it seems that no matter what they do, it's never good enough and there is always an amazing amount of complaining. I personally hope that they add more elements to the end than just the video screens, but the ending has never had much to begin with. The Journey Into Imagination redo was complete garbage and it still is pathetic in relation to the original ride, that's something to moan about.

We have an attraction where they have actually ADDED audio-animatronics and that's quite a good piece of news.

Yes, they reviewed what I just saw and asked me to pick what I just saw.
Only, there was only one choice. What I just saw. So, what is the point of that?
What is the point of asking me what I just saw in the first place, is there a test? Do I win a prize if I get it right?

Please, go and read some of the mouse planet stuff about "Declining By Degrees"

You suggest we should be happy that it got just some new audio-animatronics and that’s it. I suggest that we should look at the big picture. That is, those new audio-animatronics are overlooked because of how poor the ending of this ride is and that is a decline by a degree. Not acceptable.

Steve (WDWMagic) nailed it in his post above. WDI did SUCH a GOOD JOB with the HM rehab that, we now expect (as we should) a better rehab than what this is.

What scares me most, is that there is a good chance, most people are going to think that the ending is okay. They are so dumbed down and numb to anything orginal that being asked a question and given only one answer is okay. Hmm. Well, then again the media does tell people how to vote and what to think. So, I guess this might not be a stretch. Maybe if the touchscreen would have said "Did you like this ride... yes?... yes?... YES?..." it would have been more effective.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
To that tune.. I've NEVER seen the folks at Disboards (the forum disney is basing their new online forums off of) complain as much about a refurb as they are about this one. Those folks absolutely hate it and are even less kind then we are here. That's saying something.
 

RWilliams

Premium Member
I think that very often Disney do a get a LOT of praise from forums like this. If you look back on things like the El Rio, Pirates and Mansion refurbs, there is very little complaining. The vast majority of people were very happy with how those turned out.

It is possibly the fact that the last few refurbs have turned out so well, that people had such high expectations for Spaceship Earth.

That is the case with me, I was expecting a lot I guess. I think WDI has done such a great job with their refurbs lately. Spaceship Earth is Epcot's icon, it deserves better in my opinion. We should walk off the attraction thinking, "wow!" not "ugh"
 

MuRkErY

Member

The Good:

+ Wandless. SSE is now wandless, this is an obvious plus. Weather it would have happened with or without the refurb I do not know.


+ Signage. The new signage outside SSE is nice. It provides a good focal point for the entrance along with the new greenery.

+ Trees of Light. The new trees with lighting effects work well along with the lighting on the bottom of SSE. I hope this leads too an even more extensive lighting program for the outside SSE.

+ Tv’s. The replacement of the old TV’s with the new flat screen TV’s can only be seen as a plus. Obviously I would like too see the TV’s removed all together, but I guess that rests more with the Disney Lawyers than WDI, so any attempt to make the TV’s more presentable and too fit in more with the style of the attraction is a plus in my book.

+ The new small tunnel WDI have added on the ascent works well with the attraction. Very Horizons-ish.

+ The scenes before the 180 top all seem to be in very good shape. New lighting, costumes, and a general sprucing up of the attraction. I wish they would have kept the theatre scene how-ever as I believe theatre has had a big part to play in the development of humanity.

+ New AAs. The new AA’s are all great. I hear they are hybrid AA’s IE they didn’t replace the whole AA but only certain parts such as the arms etc… where movement is most needed. This has had a good effect and the AA’s are all mostly up to standard. I love the animation on the guy tugging the rope on the boat, you can really feel the weight.

+ The new scenes. While not being great they are nice little additions to the attraction.

The Bad:

= The new score. While not being bad it’s not great either. It’s a nice score but the old score and tomorrow’s child for that matter do so much more for SSE. The old score worked with the attraction, it heightened SSE’s finest moments both intellectually and emotionally, it drove the attraction foreword. This new score just seems to “flit” in and out, it seems to have no power, no meaning, it’s a nice little score, but it just does not work as well for SSE as past scores have.

= The new narration. I believe Judie Dench is a very good actress, and she has a very unique and soothing voice. I could see her narrating something along the lines of a fairytale and doing a great job. Is she right for SSE though…… I am not sold completely. Irons In my own opinion did a much better job (He also had a better script to work with but I’ll get to that in a bit). Dench just does not have the grandness required for an attraction that basically deals with something as epic as “Our Spaceship Earth”, she is just too quaint. Dench seems to have the same problems as the score, she just “flits” in and out, she does not make an impact.

= The new script. It’s just not challenging. The old script had class, it had power, it had meaning, it had soul, this new script just dumb’s things down. “Rome was the first World Wide Web” apart from simplifying things and being just…well wrong it has nothing of the class of the old line “East, west, north, and south - all roads led to Rome” this line says more about Rome and what Rome gave to the advancement of the human race than the new line ever could. What happened to such gems as “Spaceship Earth glows with billions of interactions carrying news and information at the very speed of light. But will these seemingly infinite communications become a flood of electronic babble? Or will we use this power to usher in a new age of understanding and co-operation on this, our Spaceship Earth” a great line to lead into the 180 top, it’s both exceedingly relevant to today and challenging to the rider. As for the old script on the descent “Physical distance is no longer a barrier to communication. Today, the entire world is our next door neighbour. Our news is their news, their news ours. We share our hopes and concerns with the whole planet. We truly live in a Global Neighbourhood.
Wondrous new tools will help us learn more about ourselves, each other, and the planet we share. Spaceship Earth will become our virtual classroom. As we greet the 21st century, yet another revolution in communication is upon us - as profound as all the progress that has come before. By using our new communication tools to build better bridges between us, we will discover we all share the common bonds of hope and sorrow, dreams and joys. Since the dawn of recorded time, communication has revolutionized our lives and changed our world. We now have the ability and the responsibility to build new bridges of acceptance and co-operation between us; to create a better world for ourselves and our children as we continue our amazing journey aboard Spaceship Earth." Let’s just say there is no comparison between the above and us riding on our rocket bike into a cheesily animated video screen future.

= The Ride System. I don’t know what to say here. WDC did not give WDI either enough money or enough time to do a complete refurb, or WDI blew the budget on other things. I guess they would have had to replace all of the old track with new track to make SSE smoothe again. This would have been a considerable undertaking which is why I list this only in “The Bad” rather than “The Ugly”. I would much rather WDI have spent the money on updating the actual show scenes rather than making the ride system smoother, on what is essentially anyway a very slow moving attraction, it does not seem as much a concern to me as it would be on something such as say Space Mountain (Pleaseee take note here WDC and WDI). How-ever it is still an annoyance and if the WDC still lay claim to the fact that they only deliver the best when it comes to attractions, then WDI should have been given the time and the money to replace the track as well.

And The Ugly

-The Descent. What can I say… A glorified survey…I really, really do hope WDI have not finished with the Descent yet because if this is it in its final form underwhelming is not even the word. Not only does the cheesy 2D animation (I love 2D animation but please, the end off SSE is just not the time or the place unless it is going to the done with the production qualities of golden age Disney animation) clash with the serious nature of the ride it’s just well…down right boring. Where is the immersion? Where is the soul? Where is the heart? Where is the challenge to us as people to make a better future? Something as grand and epic as the topic of our planet and its people deserves more than this. Why have an omnimover, the very nature of which was designed to immerse the rider in an experience, a time, a place, and then you have the rider sitting there staring at a screen for the last 4 minutes of the ride, with nothing going on around them. Where is the sense in that? At best it's a post show, it is not the conclusion of a grand and epic journey through time and space. In fact I'll go as far as saying the Descent is now selfish, it does not even fit the themes of EPCOT. Where as the old Descent challenged us to build bridges, to co-operate, to make the world a better place for everybody, for humanity to come together...it is our RESPONSIBILITY to do this. The new Descent does what, it gives us a vision of the future for us, its our future, it's a selfish future, want, want, want. It does not have anything to do with the theme of the ride at all, it does nothing for the global communitity of "Our Spaceship Earth" it's all about the needs of the indivdual, it is the anethesis of the old Descent.

As far as I can see one of three things went wrong here, or maybe all three at once, lol.

Either WDI screwed up and used the budget they were given badly
or
The WDC gave WDI a weak budget with which they could not do much with
or
Siemens insisted their money was spent the way they wanted it spent

I have too say I think it may have been a little bit of all the above. A refurb should keep the things that were great about an attraction and plus the things that were bad, Jesus WDI have an example just across the way at The MK of how to do a great refurb in The Haunted Mansion. So lets see how WDI used there budget.

They removed the old score, script, narration and some of the show scenes (Mostly the Descent stuff)

They added a new score, narration, script, and a touch screen, while touching up a few old scenes and adding in a couple of new scenes.

Am I the only one that see’s removing the old score, narration and script as a waste of budget? Those are things about SSE that worked, hell they worked great why change them? The money should have been spent on plussing areas that needed work? The Descent was much better in its old form, but it could have visually been much more impressive, why not spend the budget there, in making the visual aspects of the Descent much better and filling up all of the black space. The narrations, script, and score carried the old Descent in my own opinion, visually it was good but not great, they could have done so much more visually. Now not only have the removed the greatest thing about the old descent (Narration, Script, Score) they have done away with the visual aspect of it as well, while I was assuming they would be filling up all the black space on the Descent they have instead made more while at the same time removing the aspects that gave it it’s soul.

Everybody has spent so much time bemoaning the touch screens nobody has stopped to ask… why the hell are they even needed on the ride in the first place? Again this seems like more waste of budget, money that could have been spent making SSE an even more immersive and gratifying experience was instead used to make it less immersive. To me the whole touch screen interactive idea just stinks of some pencil pusher sitting up high in the WDC, Siemens, maybe even WDI saying “INTERACTIVE, INTERACTIVE, INTERACTIVE….. That’s what the kids want, all these video games, INTERACTIVE is the way” Well here’s a thought, interactive is not the be all and end all, in fact I’ll go as far as saying it is not even the way of the future in the way people seem to be thinking it is. Have we all stopped reading good old fashioned straight up books because those books came out where you can choose your own endings, what page to go to next etc…no we have not and we will not stop watching films, or TV shows, or yes going on theme park rides because they are not interactive. Sometimes we want to just sit back and be told a good story, to learn something, to be inspired, and you know what sometimes we have trouble finding inspiration within our-self’s which is why we turn to “ART and ENTERTAINMENT” to inspire us, to be told a great story and lift our spirits and this has NOTHING to do with being interactive and this is not going to change.

If Siemens forced this on WDI and WDC then the WDC really should not be letting this happen. The WDC make enough money to easily refurb SSE without money from sponsors so why let a sponsor push you around?
 

RonAnnArbor

Well-Known Member
Hmm... not for nothing, "Tomorrow's Child" has been gone from SSE for years -- not sure where that comment fits in --

I'll be there next week so I will check out the attraction if it is open -- but I agree with the rose-colored glasses comment up above -- the ending has always been terrible -- just a bunch of lights and outdated fiber optics on the way down...That is not necessarily a problem with Imagineering -- that is a problem with the way the ride is constructed and the track it follows -- slow meandering trip up, and steep straight trip back down while you stare at the ceiling...

And I would bet those touchscreens are there because Siemens is showing off their own technology - if they are sponsoring the ride, then they can advertise all they want...frankly, if that is what it takes to keep an attraction open instead of going the way of Wonders of Life, then I can put up with a minute and a half of bad ending...
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
Nothing to begin with

"Please, go and read some of the mouse planet stuff about "Declining By Degrees"

Not only have I read Decling by Degrees, but I could point out hundreds of examples just from my last visit, last week. Sorry, I can point things out from overgrown trees to worn down garbage can signage. I can certainly shoot the breeze about the endless problems at what has become a corporate dumbed down Walt Disney World.

My point with the end portion of Spaceship Earth is that there was never much of anything to begin with. If for 25 years the descent has been underwhelming, I certainly wouldn't expect it to improve much.

Has anyone possibly entertained the notion that based on the layout of the descent area and the building plan that they created, they are limited in space and what they can do here? With such limitations, they believed that creating this interactive screen at least brought something new?

The ending has been lights and static figures. So, if we get some more lights and little effects to equal or be greater than the last version along with the interactive video screens, how could that not be an upgrade?

I also read a comment about people speaking highly about other recent redos on here including the River of Time refurbishment. Again, I must be reading the wrong threads. I saw countless complaints about the use of Donald Duck, getting rid of the old music, etc.
 

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