Soul at Epcot

[eliza61nyc]

It really isn’t, The fact of the matter is, the act or shoehorning film IP everywhere in the parks is a tired & overdone practice these days. Most folks honestly don’t have an issue with the idea of utilizing film IP itself if it’s properly executed & put where it fits. The problem comes in the fact that there’s no balance of building completely new, original, park exclusive ideas & film IP adaptations anymore like there used to be in the past. And then to make matters worse, it seems these overused film IP adaptations keep coming at the expense of the tried & true ‘classics’ that are park-exclusive attractions we all know & love. Again, ruining the balance that initially made the parks what they were & should continue to be. That there lies the issue.

lol are the tried and true still "classics"? I think the problem is that many see "classics" as old and boring. Maelstrom and the great movie rides were two "classics" that needed to be scrapped about 15 years ago. Now I absolutely agree that they could have been updated and kept and I don't know why disney does not do that but I was glad both got the boot for something new.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Now I absolutely agree that they could have been updated and kept and I don't know why disney does not do that but I was glad both got the boot for something new.

But at what cost?? You get something a lot less true to form.. a Frozen ride that feels shoehorned in with no real captivating or interesting story. It’s just, “lets go see Elsa in her ice castle, but on the way, lets see some characters along the sides just singing the songs out of context where they don’t fit in with the story.”. Like it isn’t even implemented to truly fit the ride. The update/enhance route would’ve been a lot better in that case. With that you could’ve made it a lot more exciting without ruining the original intent & nature of it all. But yeah..
And when it comes to Great Movie Ride, again, same thing... probably could’ve been updated to feature other movies too..

I mean, it’s one thing if even the original concept there never worked there to begin with. In that case, replacing it entirely would make sense. But in the case that it worked initially (like say the original Journey Into Imagination), but became bad after trying to completely redo the ride, replacing everything that made it great initially with an unfitting film IP & a bunch of cheap props & effects (Journey Into Your Imagination) and then redoing it again, keeping 99% of the bad elements with only 1 or 2 elements of the original shoehorned in with no proper context or utilization (Journey Into Imagination With Figment), I say it’s better to go back to what worked and simply enhance/upgrade it with new tech & spfx.

 

[NickMaio]

But at what cost?? You get something a lot less true to form.. a Frozen ride that feels shoehorned in with no real captivating or interesting story. It’s just, “lets go see Elsa in her ice castle, but on the way, lets see some characters along the sides just singing the songs out of context where they don’t fit in with the story.”. Like it isn’t even implemented to truly fit the ride. The update/enhance route would’ve been a lot better in that case. With that you could’ve made it a lot more exciting without ruining the original intent & nature of it all. But yeah..
And when it comes to Great Movie Ride, again, same thing... probably could’ve been updated to feature other movies too..

I mean, it’s one thing if even the original concept there never worked there to begin with. In that case, replacing it entirely would make sense. But in the case that it worked initially (like say the original Journey Into Imagination), but became bad after trying to completely redo the ride, replacing everything that made it great initially with an unfitting film IP & a bunch of cheap props & effects (Journey Into Your Imagination) and then redoing it again, keeping 99% of the bad elements with only 1 or 2 elements of the original shoehorned in with no proper context or utilization (Journey Into Imagination With Figment), I say it’s better to go back to what worked and simply enhance/upgrade it with new tech & spfx.

And yup.....that Frozen ride is such a poor excuse of a WDW. Such a rush job, no soul and no real story.

 

[WondersOfLife]

And yup.....that Frozen ride is such a poor excuse of a WDW. Such a rush job, no soul and no real story.

I remember when I was in like, 8th or 9th grade and I went to do the New York Film Academy at Disney. This big dude, one of the teachers, was acting like a big know it all. Very arrogant dude. Anyways, he had brought up the Frozen ride which was still being built at the time. And I said “I heard on these forums I follow that it’s just going to be a rushed overlay.” And he (talking to me, a child..) legit said “that is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. They’re not doing that.

God I wish I could have been there to see his reaction on the ride. Also I wish I hadnt begged my parents to spend 4K to let me go to that dumb camp. A big rip off with rude teachers that shouldn’t be working with kids.

 

[Little Green Men]

And yup.....that Frozen ride is such a poor excuse of a WDW. Such a rush job, no soul and no real story.

Yet far better than Maelstrom

 

[NickMaio]

Yet far better than Maelstrom

Nice in depth commentary........
I need to get another masters in order to keep up with the discourse on this forum.

 

[Jphaddad96]

I would love to see a Soul attraction at Epcot, maybe as replacement of Imagination. But seeing the case of Coco at the Mexican Pavilion, I think thaat'ss not going to happen at least for now...

 

[Little Green Men]

Nice in depth commentary........
I need to get another masters in order to keep up with the discourse on this forum.

Maelstrom with its poor storytelling, static figures except the trolls and random finale just wasn’t a great ride imo. It was fine but Frozen Atleast has better effects and animatronics.

 

[Fox&Hound]

People can argue all day that Frozen does not belong in Norway and I can at least understand that opinion even if I do not share it, but anyone who says they did a total botch job of the Frozen ride is just mental. Such impressive AA's, great use of a small space, and a heck of a lot of charm. Yes, it would have been cool to get a new build but I think they did a wonderful job with the small footprint they chose to use.

 

[WondersOfLife]

People can argue all day that Frozen does not belong in Norway and I can at least understand that opinion even if I do not share it, but anyone who says they did a total botch job of the Frozen ride is just mental. Such impressive AA's, great use of a small space, and a heck of a lot of charm. Yes, it would have been cool to get a new build but I think they did a wonderful job with the small footprint they chose to use.

1). Impressive animatronics don’t make for an impressive ride.

2). Can you compare the story of the attraction to, say, Splash Mountain, Haunted Mansion.... and I’m gonna say it.. Little Mermaid???

3). They didn’t even bother replacing the old ride system (or even the boats!) that break down constantly.

4). Maelstrom was at least worth its typical walk-on wait time. Are you justifying Frozen Ever After’s 40 minute to hour wait lenth in turn for a minute and a half ride? (Peter Pan’s Flight for comparison)

5). Are you also considering projected face animatronics are more impressive than physical face animatronics?

6). Where does the “charm” come from? Serious question since there is apparently a lot of it.

7). Good use of a small space? My goodness. You know.. it didn’t HAVE to be a small space. They could have expanded or located it within another park. Brand new building. Ect. To make the attraction worthy of the gigantic movie it’s based on. Disney wasn’t “limited.” They CHOSE the space it went in.

8). They did do it as cheap as possible, but enough to make it rideable.

 

[lazyboy97o]

People can argue all day that Frozen does not belong in Norway and I can at least understand that opinion even if I do not share it, but anyone who says they did a total botch job of the Frozen ride is just mental. Such impressive AA's, great use of a small space, and a heck of a lot of charm. Yes, it would have been cool to get a new build but I think they did a wonderful job with the small footprint they chose to use.

Empty rooms are a great use of space?

 

[NickMaio]

Maelstrom with its poor storytelling, static figures except the trolls and random finale just wasn’t a great ride imo. It was fine but Frozen Atleast has better effects and animatronics.

Let's really call it what it is....a total mash up of frozen scenes.
No engaging or new story, nothing new in the ride layout, wait times into the sky, not worth the ride it replaced which was decades old.
A ride about Norway in the Norway pavilion had 10 times the charm as this Frozen ride does.

It should have received it's own new building, not shoehorning into an existing boat ride. It was the top grossing animated film of all time.

Q

 

[NickMaio]

Maelstrom with its poor storytelling, static figures except the trolls and random finale just wasn’t a great ride imo. It was fine but Frozen Atleast has better effects and animatronics.

Poor storytelling......the ride was based on the people,mythology,and society of Norway......in the Norway pavilion.
What more do you want?

 

[Sctble]

Coming soon: Apple Dumpling Gang mine train on TSI..

View attachment 521024

Alas, I no longer feel like I'm wasting my time anticipating the Cool Runnings Experience coming to Blizzard Beach.
(Complete with capsizing toward the end of the ride and having to carry your tube at least 100+ feet to the end.)

 

[BoatDriver]

I'm just going to go ahead and say it. The movie really wasn't that good. There's a reason they made it free on Disney+. That's the only place it belongs.

 

[Kamikaze]

Dang y’all quite a fun bunch of folks.

What about the movie relates to Epcot? (Without going whether or not the park is 'ruined'?)

 

[Goofyernmost]

Nice in depth commentary........
I need to get another masters in order to keep up with the discourse on this forum.

The reasons it is better has been hashed over multiple times since they started it up. Maelstrom told us nothing, was boring except for the seconds that it backed up and then went down a couple of feet. It was a travelogue for the country that gave us no real reason to want to ever visit the place. Frozen didn't need a complete story because, thanks to the movie, its story was already known. An up-close look and reminder of the enjoyment that many got out of the movie. When it is all boiled down the popularity, at this point, of Maelstrom was strictly nostalgia not quality entertainment. Of all the attractions that have met their end in WDW, Maelstrom was the one that was most in need of replacement.

Because there was a shortage of riding attractions in the Showcase, I used to ride it every visit once I found out that you could easily skip the end movie and walk through without feeling guilty or bored. But, after all those exposures I remember only a few things of the ride. I remember the mural at boarding, the dirty Polar Bear, the Oil Rig, the Trolls and the boat reversal and minor drop. Not overly impressive, but it had good AC and a chance to sit. So many people have been all bent out of shape because they insist that Frozen as a replacement had no basis of reality either in location or story, yet were enamored by the reality of Trolls. Seriously!

 

[NickMaio]

The reasons it is better has been hashed over multiple times since they started it up. Maelstrom told us nothing, was boring except for the seconds that it backed up and then went down a couple of feet. It was a travelogue for the country that gave us no real reason to want to ever visit the place. Frozen didn't need a complete story because, thanks to the movie, its story was already known. An up-close look and reminder of the enjoyment that many got out of the movie. When it is all boiled down the popularity, at this point, of Maelstrom was strictly nostalgia not quality entertainment. Of all the attractions that have met their end in WDW, Maelstrom was the one that was most in need of replacement.

Because there was a shortage of riding attractions in the Showcase, I used to ride it every visit once I found out that you could easily skip the end movie and walk through without feeling guilty or bored. But, after all those exposures I remember only a few things of the ride. I remember the mural at boarding, the dirty Polar Bear, the Oil Rig, the Trolls and the boat reversal and minor drop. Not overly impressive, but it had good AC and a chance to sit. So many people have been all bent out of shape because they insist that the movie had no basis of reality either in location or story, yet were enamored by the reality of Trolls. Seriously!

Frozen should have had an original new story, not just cutting and pasting scenes. It's lazy and boring, but hey people love it. Why not create a new adventure story with the same cast.......oh that might cost more money, nope. The masses wont care anyway, they will line up for hours for this joke of a ride.
Maelstrom was like every other ride-movie in the pavilion, about the country. It was nothing mindblowing but it kept you in the world showcase, it kept you feeling like you were on a world tour, it kept Epcot different than any other theme park on the planet.
Frozen just started WDW on a slope of dumming down its previous standards just to cram more IP junk down our throats. To sell more merch and Dusney plus subscriptions. And the sheep are loving this new trend.
God forbid you learn something new about a country or history.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I suppose I fall between the two sides posting so far here regarding Frozen/Maelstrom. I liked the original attraction, except for the dumb movie at the end, but the movie was easy to bypass. We made the attraction fun with a few inside family jokes, though most aren't worth explaining.

One family joke of sorts started back when one member of our extended family was very young. She was a little scared of the polar bears, so we thought to growl at THEM, and it worked. Instead of disliking that section, it quickly became her favorite part! The tradition stuck. Maelstrom wasn't a WDW e-ride, but it had charm.

As for Frozen, the film's popularity made it clear WDW had to build a Frozen attraction. In the early days, lines to see the Frozen sisters ran 5+ hours long every day! Yet, at that time, the parks didn't have any Frozen merchandise. WDW lost a huge opportunity that year.

I sorta get why they put the ride in Norway. It mildly offends the WDW traditionalist in me, but it makes some sense, though I would have preferred a whole new area for Frozen.

The current Frozen is a missed opportunity for something that could have been much better. I've long felt WDW doesn't have enough exciting eateries to meet demand - or didn't. It was just dumb they didn't create a Frozen Princess character meal in a crystal laced magical 'ice' building. In summer, folks would just love to escape to an eatery made of 'ice' with frozen confections. St. Augustine's The Hyppo sells high quality frozen juice bars in traditional flavors like strawberry plus a seasonal rotation of unique combos w/ fresh produce: Avocado Lime, Banana Spice Rum, Cranberry Habanero, Mamey, Plum Mint, Orange Basil, Blackberry Ginger! Mmmm!

(Three hours south of WDW, is also the hugely popular fruit stand, "Robert is Here," which does (or did) steady business of fresh fruit smoothies/milkshakes. South Florida grows tropical fruits that can't be grown farther north. Again, huge missed potential by WDW: unique Florida, delicious, and mildly healthy.)

Does anyone else remember Disney's Healthily Ever After/Magic of Healthy Living campaign? Yet WDW's theme park food offerings/promotions/rollouts have been a continuous disappointment.

 

[NickMaio]

I suppose I fall between the two sides posting so far here regarding Frozen/Maelstrom. I liked the original attraction, except for the dumb movie at the end, but the movie was easy to bypass. We made the attraction fun with a few inside family jokes, though most aren't worth explaining.

One family joke of sorts started back when one member of our extended family was very young. She was a little scared of the polar bears, so we thought to growl at THEM, and it worked. Instead of disliking that section, it quickly became her favorite part! The tradition stuck. Maelstrom wasn't a WDW e-ride, but it had charm.

As for Frozen, the film's popularity made it clear WDW had to build a Frozen attraction. In the early days, lines to see the Frozen sisters ran 5+ hours long every day! Yet, at that time, the parks didn't have any Frozen merchandise. WDW lost a huge opportunity that year.

I sorta get why they put the ride in Norway. It mildly offends the WDW traditionalist in me, but it makes some sense, though I would have preferred a whole new area for Frozen.

The current Frozen is a missed opportunity for something that could have been much better. I've long felt WDW doesn't have enough exciting eateries to meet demand - or didn't. It was just dumb they didn't create a Frozen Princess character meal in a crystal laced magical 'ice' building. In summer, folks would just love to escape to an eatery made of 'ice' with frozen confections. St. Augustine's The Hyppo sells high quality frozen juice bars in traditional flavors like strawberry plus a seasonal rotation of unique combos w/ fresh produce: Avocado Lime, Banana Spice Rum, Cranberry Habanero, Mamey, Plum Mint, Orange Basil, Blackberry Ginger! Mmmm!

(Three hours south of WDW, is also the hugely popular fruit stand, "Robert is Here," which does (or did) steady business of fresh fruit smoothies/milkshakes. South Florida grows tropical fruits that can't be grown farther north. Again, huge missed potential by WDW: unique Florida, delicious, and mildly healthy.)

Does anyone else remember Disney's Healthily Ever After/Magic of Healthy Living campaign? Yet WDW's theme park food offerings/promotions/rollouts have been a continuous disappointment.

That is part of my gripe, WDW should have done better. Dont set the bar too high, mentality is driving me nuts lately.
Pandora and GE seem cool, we have not been yet.
Everything that was on the horizon at WDW pre-covid had such potential. Especially Spaceship Earth.
Too bad.