Soo Black box is cancelled right?

[Tom P.]

For my life I dont understand why the Disney community is so happy that Iger is back, when he was, quite literally, responsible for almost everything people claim he will fix.

Iger did do (or begin) many things that people don't like. However, I don't think anyone argues that Iger was better than Chapek. I don't think Iger is the answer long-term, but for the short-term, he was probably the best answer they had to the "Chapek problem."

Besides, it is possible that even though he started Walt Disney World in that direction, when he stepped back and saw Chapek double down on it, he realized that it was a mistake and that they need a different strategy. I'm not saying it's probable, but it's possible. We'll see from what he actually does over the next year or so.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I think I'm in the minority on this, but I'm personally sick of going for "immersion." Just give me a fun ride. I don't need to feel like I'm inside the fantasy world of a story. Just give me a fun ride.

Then why have a theme park at all? Why not just another Six Flags?

 

[Tom P.]

Then why have a theme park at all? Why not just another Six Flags?

A theme park can follow consistent and coherent theming without worrying about full-on immersion. That is different from a Six Flags where rides and attractions are just flung anywhere. When I am in Fantasyland, for example, I expect each ride to fit into the overall theme of the land. I would find it inappropriate if, for example, Space Mountain were placed there. Theming, though, does not mean immersion. When I am in Fantasyland, they are not trying to make me feel like I am anywhere other than Magic Kingdom in the way that, say, Galaxy's Edge is.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A theme park can follow consistent and coherent theming without worrying about full-on immersion. That is different from a Six Flags where rides and attractions are just flung anywhere. When I am in Fantasyland, for example, I expect each ride to fit into the overall theme of the land. I would find it inappropriate if, for example, Space Mountain were placed there. Theming, though, does not mean immersion. When I am in Fantasyland, they are not trying to make me feel like I am anywhere other than Magic Kingdom in the way that, say, Galaxy's Edge is.

Theming very much does mean immersion. What distinguishes themed experience from a more passive experience like theater or cinema is that you are entering the world of the story. The Magic Kingdom is absolutely trying to make you feel like you are places other than an amusement park, because that’s its whole conceit, taking you to these different romantic places.

 

[Brer Panther]

I think I'm in the minority on this, but I'm personally sick of going for "immersion." Just give me a fun ride. I don't need to feel like I'm inside the fantasy world of a story. Just give me a fun ride.

The ironic thing is, most of the more recent rides like Ratatouille are far less "immersive" than "primitive, IP-less" attractions from the pre-Iger days like the Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean.

I don't think anyone argues that Iger was better than Chapek.

That's like saying being punched in the face is better than getting thrown off a cliff.

 

[Tom P.]

That's like saying being punched in the face is better than getting thrown off a cliff.

Well, isn't it?

 

[TomboyJanet]

I think I'm in the minority on this, but I'm personally sick of going for "immersion." Just give me a fun ride. I don't need to feel like I'm inside the fantasy world of a story. Just give me a fun ride.

then DO I have a park for you!

www.sixflags.com

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Spending nine figures on a seasonal attraction is not viable. Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railroad is too specifically designed for its usage.

That’s the fundamental problem with the black box. To do anything more than just very generic screens on the same route, you’re spending money on demolishing and building show sets which pushes up your costs, and Disney’s costs are exorbitant.

Exactly - Let's imagine a ride that does even less than MMRR to create an engrossing environment, and then let's recognize that the Black Box ride could only be that at best.

Save an occasional, retrofit-able Animatronic or two, we're basically talking the dark ride equivalent of ping-ponging around the "immersive" traveling Van Gogh exhibit:

 

[TomboyJanet]

Exactly - Let's imagine a ride that does even less than MMRR to create an engrossing environment, and then let's recognize that the Black Box ride could only be that at best.

Save an occasional, retrofit-able Animatronic or two, we're basically talking the dark ride equivalent of ping-ponging around the "immersive" traveling Van Gogh exhibit:

View attachment 704756

I grew up in NY so to me being surrounded by large screens just evokes the anxiety of Times Square. Where everything is retail

 

[Tom P.]

then DO I have a park for you!

www.sixflags.com

Sorry, but others have beaten you to the tired "you should go to Six Flags then" argument. Of course, that's an absurd comparison. Six Flags is an amusement park, not a theme park. And, no, despite what people have said here, theme park does not equal "immersion." Immersion is an overdone, mediocre land with two rides like Galaxy's Edge. But, boy, do you feel like you're really there! On the other hand, never once have I ridden It's A Small World and felt like I was immersed and really in another place. But, yet, somehow it's an absolute classic Disney ride and a heck of a lot of fun. I'd rather Disney spend money on individual, fun rides than big, expensive, immersive lands any day.

 

[TomboyJanet]

Sorry, but others have beaten you to the tired "you should go to Six Flags then" argument. Of course, that's an absurd comparison. Six Flags is an amusement park, not a theme park. And, no, despite what people have said here, theme park does not equal "immersion." Immersion is an overdone, mediocre land with two rides like Galaxy's Edge. But, boy, do you feel like you're really there! On the other hand, never once have I ridden It's A Small World and felt like I was immersed and really in another place. But, yet, somehow it's an absolute classic Disney ride and a heck of a lot of fun. I'd rather Disney spend money on individual, fun rides than big, expensive, immersive lands any day.

Yeah but like it doesn't have to be Galaxy's edge to be immersive. Like Splash Mountain was immersive in that it feels like you're following a zany Rabbit in a river. Small World is kinda an odd duck. It's the only Disney ride that is alluring due to it being just fun to look at what's going on in a way you'd watch like a Rube Goldberg machine or like one of those wacky ball rolling things. To me Small World is more like travelling through a magical music box with all the little dancers twirling and stuff. That's why it's in fantasyland. I never really thought about it too hard but the fun of Small World is that it's like being in a cool whimsical toy land. Thus the big face and the whirly objects and everything seemingly going in circles including Big Ben (which is WAAAY outta control! I mean how are they supposed to have any sense of time when half the time is going backwards and half of it is going forwards!)

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sorry, but others have beaten you to the tired "you should go to Six Flags then" argument. Of course, that's an absurd comparison. Six Flags is an amusement park, not a theme park. And, no, despite what people have said here, theme park does not equal "immersion." Immersion is an overdone, mediocre land with two rides like Galaxy's Edge. But, boy, do you feel like you're really there! On the other hand, never once have I ridden It's A Small World and felt like I was immersed and really in another place. But, yet, somehow it's an absolute classic Disney ride and a heck of a lot of fun. I'd rather Disney spend money on individual, fun rides than big, expensive, immersive lands any day.

Yes, if you make up your own, narrow, I’ll-defined definition, then sure, immersion is something new and bad.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

I think the black box was an interesting idea which wouldn’t work in practice

having an easily updatable ride for different seasons or promotions is a good idea but we know disney wouldn’t keep it up. Look at how often Toy Story mania or smugglers run are updated. We would end up with a basic ride which stays the same for 25 years until it becomes embarrassing

Just like Fantasyland, and EPCOT, and DisneyQuest, and... everything that requires keeping up with the times...

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

Clearly meant for DHS but I always felt this concept would have worked best in Springs. As for visuals and IP... emulating a classic bus bar darkride with digital UV glow characters and projected swing doors would be the ideal aesthetic, imo. I don't see it working with live action IPs. Imagine the draw of a Nightmare Before Christmas ride. Or if this were used for Pixar's Coco?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Sorry, but others have beaten you to the tired "you should go to Six Flags then" argument. Of course, that's an absurd comparison. Six Flags is an amusement park, not a theme park. And, no, despite what people have said here, theme park does not equal "immersion." Immersion is an overdone, mediocre land with two rides like Galaxy's Edge. But, boy, do you feel like you're really there! On the other hand, never once have I ridden It's A Small World and felt like I was immersed and really in another place. But, yet, somehow it's an absolute classic Disney ride and a heck of a lot of fun. I'd rather Disney spend money on individual, fun rides than big, expensive, immersive lands any day.

Immersing is up to you. If you don't want to feel immersed, just don't. No matter where you are unless it is an awful park you will be standing in some line to ride it so that won't change, the immersion in the rides are just story telling and what the hell else do you have to do while on the rides. Universal is a little bit less immersive, SeaWorld a lot less and then and then there is Busch Gardens which is minimal. Perhaps you just don't think the rides are vomit inducing enough to make them fun, then like other have said just go to an amusement park. It seems like you somehow think that Disney Parks would still be fun without the immersion. I have been going there for 40 years and I've enjoyed the rides and the immersiveness of it, but I have never thought that it would be better without the immersion. I must just be missing something. If it is still about the "thrill" rides than that would be another place. Not all of us like to feel nauseous.

 

[Tha Realest]

I feel like the screens based rides are barely a step above this “black box” concept, which in turn is a kissing cousin to this:

At the end of Chapek’s tenure it was rumored they were going to be doing more to bring immersive Disney experiences to guests at home. I wonder if they toyed with a VR type device like this to emulate the subscription Peloton pricing model? “For only $9,999 for the home device and $29.99 a month you can experience all of Disney’s attractions from the comfort of your home.”

 

[Po'Rich]

So, if Six Flags isn't what you seek, then perhaps Silver Dollar City is. There is an overall theme to the park (so you can't argue that it's just an amusement park), but most of the rides only have a minor amount of theming. Most are pretty bare-bones thrill rides.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Immersing is up to you. If you don't want to feel immersed, just don't.

*You* are the immersion!!

 

[MrPromey]

I think the immersion is great but there is kind of a practical limit.

Like, I get why Universal doesn't have freestyle machines in the HP lands but I often wonder while walking through, how many times a day their employees have to tell people that Gillywater is in fact, just bottled water and that's what it's labeled as, there.

It's one of those things that seems like a clever touch but probably kind of a nuisance for folks on the ground.

To a similar degree, not everything at Satu'li Canteen at AK has to look weird and exotic. They could have chicken nuggets on the menu (imported from Earth, even!) and that would make life a lot easier for parents of picky eaters who may not be interested in trying Disney's take on a cheeseburger "pod" or a "Teylu" as featured on their kid's menu.

I know when GE was being developed, we had an insider here saying Imagineering was looking to have Visa and MasterCard logos removed from retail there because you know, there was no Visa or Mastercard a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away... despite their plans to still accept the payments there.

There's a certain level where, in my opinion, it just becomes a nuisance and the real skill is in figuring out where to draw the line.

I mean, who wants to be beaten to within an inch of their life by a half dozen storm troopers who spot them getting in line for Rise? That would be true immersion but I think we can agree, most sane people would not be looking for that experience, right?

How practical is a "thermal detonator" Coke bottle to carry around and drink from vs. a regular shaped coke bottle with the funky Star Wars Coke logo and printing on the label?

Then again, Disney infamously sells the world's most impractical popcorn holders so what do I know?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think the immersion is great but there is kind of a practical limit.

Like, I get why Universal doesn't have freestyle machines in the HP lands but I often wonder while walking through, how many times a day their employees have to tell people that Gillywater is in fact, just bottled water and that's what it's labeled as, there.

It's one of those things that seems like a clever touch but probably kind of a nuisance for folks on the ground.

To a similar degree, not everything at Satu'li Canteen at AK has to look weird and exotic. They could have chicken nuggets on the menu (imported from Earth, even!) and that would make life a lot easier for parents of picky eaters who may not be interested in trying Disney's take on a cheeseburger "pod" or a "Teylu" as featured on their kid's menu.

I know when GE was being developed, we had an insider here saying Imagineering was looking to have Visa and MasterCard logos removed from retail there because you know, there was no Visa or Mastercard a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away... despite their plans to still accept the payments there.

There's a certain level where, in my opinion, it just becomes a nuisance and the real skill is in figuring out where to draw the line.

I mean, who wants to be beaten to within an inch of their life by a half dozen storm troopers who spot them getting in line for Rise? That would be true immersion but who's really looking for that experience?

Like, how practical is a "thermal detonator" Coke bottle to carry around and drink from vs. a regular shaped coke bottle the funky printing on the label?

Then again, Disney infamously sells the world's most impractical popcorn holders so what do I know?

Like anything, there are good examples and bad examples. But it would be ridiculous to say story is unimportant to a good movie because the Transformers movies have lousy stories.