Some things you just can't fix

[WondersOfLife]

There are many things that Disney has that easily cause park guests to complain or get upset over. It could be the long line for Peter Pan or a ride breakdown.... But when is a complaint going too far? When there is something that Disney really can't do anything about.

I* personally believe that a good example of this would be the park prices... I believe that the park prices are so incredibly high because of park capacity. In the summer, Magic Kingdom is packed. Complain all you want about spending 100 dollars for a park ticket, the people are still coming in... And the more people that come in, the more Disney has to make sure that the park does not go over capacity. This could very well be the reason why Magic Kingdom is a few dollars more than the other three parks... Popularity. Another thing I believe that is an issue would have to be Hollywood Studios.. Where there is hardly anything to do, so to keep lines from reaching over an hour and a half long... Raise the price of the park! Because if* theme park tickets for Disney were only $60.00 today, imagine how impossible it would be to actually enjoy a day at any of these theme parks.

Any thoughts or other examples on this?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Nothing about WDW is a result of an act of nature. It is the result of managerial decisions, of profit optimisation.

Crowded MK? One could build a higher capoacity MK (as they did), or a second MK, or better second, third and fourth gates, or another resort in the US or Brazil.
Nothing to do in DHS? That is not an act of God that leaves Disney helpless but to raise prices, that is the result of cumulative poor strategic park planning.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Nothing about WDW is a result of an act of nature. It is the result of managerial decisions, of profit optimisation.

Crowded MK? One could build a higher capoacity MK (as they did), or a second MK, or better second, third and fourth gates, or another resort in the US or Brazil.
Nothing to do in DHS? That is not an act of God that leaves Disney helpless but to raise prices, that is the result of cumulative poor strategic park planning.

I have to disagree. Because once DHS gets the Star Wars and Toy Story Playland expansions.. There will be even MORE park guests. The crowds creating long wait times for those new attractions will either make the park even more crowded, or an equivalence to the amount of park guests that exist in the currently small version of DHS.

With Magic Kingdom, yes, they did expand the capacity to MK.. But still.. That brought in even more people. Because something "new" was brought in. So the amount of park guests that now visit Magic Kingdom have grown even more... And that's the problem. We're either stuck with the same old rides and lands, for years and years, with no increase in park capacity.. Or we can get a few new things every other year.. But these new things are going to bring in even MORE people.

You could argue that they could build a new theme park in Brazil, but that is only going to help decline brazilian tourists, just by a bit. There are plenty of brazilian tourists that will also want to visit Universal Orlando, still. Then make their way over to Disney.

And I disagree with making a "second Magic Kingdom..." That wouldn't make sense. We already have technically two "Magic Kingdoms" in the same country. Plus the orlando resort has 3 other theme parks. We don't really need a 5th park. Creating a 3rd Disney theme park resort will also probably just create more and more tourism in America.. not necessarily bringing down park attendance in Florida.. But just making America in general a more crowded place.

But.. I can just tell we have different opinions on this. So I'll respect your views.

 

[Hakunamatata]

It's really easy. For some it doesn't matter what Disney does because they are a for profit business. It always boils down to the capitalistic corporate greed hate the people mantra.

 

[Konor]

Kinda disappointed. From the title I expected to come into talks of Yetis and such...

 

[Goofyernmost]

It's really easy. For some it doesn't matter what Disney does because they are a for profit business. It always boils down to the capitalistic corporate greed hate the people mantra.

I always have to wonder where those folks are going to go to complain about things if the profit part were to end. Talk about Pixie Dust mentality. It's all just going to be there, magically in it's place, without all that evil profit.

 

[yedliW]

People get hung up on the $100/day thing.. it is a misleading argument.. how many people are actually paying $100/day? Most people are going for about a week.. 5 day tickets are an average of $63/day, 6 days are $54, and it gets cheaper from there.. I don't have the numbers, but I would imagine that the people that are paying $100/day are a tiny fraction of the guests through the gates..
Compare that to other forms of entertainment.. last year, the traveling show of Beauty and the Beast came to town, and tickets were $75pp, and that wasn't even the good seats.. and that is for 3 hours of entertainment.. for another $25, we could have spent 12+ hours at the happiest place on earth..
Compare that to NBA/NFL/NHL games.. it is not uncommon for people to spend several hundred dollars per ticket..

Given the number of South American tourist groups, a park in Rio might not be a bad idea.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Kinda disappointed. From the title I expected to come into talks of Yetis and such...

By all means, that argument would be a good one for this thread.. Although, I don't know enough about the Yeti's state to say whether or not it's possible to fix the yeti... Something about the actual structure itself was the problem, not the yeti AA, from what I've heard.

This is a really flexible thread-topic.. That's why I thought it would be interesting to see all of the different opinions (or arguments..) between people on what would be considered "fixable" and what wouldn't.

 

[Goofyernmost]

By all means, that argument would be a good one for this thread.. Although, I don't know enough about the Yeti's state to say whether or not it's possible to fix the yeti... Something about the actual structure itself was the problem, not the yeti AA, from what I've heard.

This is a really flexible thread-topic.. That's why I thought it would be interesting to see all of the different opinions (or arguments..) between people on what would be considered "fixable" and what wouldn't.

Just about anything is fixable if it is man made. The factors that enter into it are cost and motivation. The Yeti is probably fixable, probably at a considerable cost with no guarantee that it won't fail again. It was a badly engineered AA. Even if it's the framework and not the AA itself, it still needs a stable framework to function. Then they would have considered that the expense is not going to have a payback. The ride is almost always accompanied by a long line, so they are running it at maximum, what is to be gained by spending all that money on it other then make giddy a handful of fans that know it ever moved. We keep forgetting that most people do not pay much attention to a Disney Park unless they are standing in it a some point. And then it is only while they are there.They don't know what is supposed to happen so they are completely without a clue if something is wrong. Heck, I've been going there for 32 years and have yet to commit to memory exactly what every attraction is supposed to have and what they are supposed to do.

The next argument, of course, is that Walt would have fixed it. Maybe, but, if he saw it as something that he could do without, the chances are he would have done without it. Maybe replace it with a smaller, less elaborate Yeti, but, he also might have done the same thing that they did. Strobe it! It's there, it gives the illusion of movement and illusion was his business. Remember the fish in the Sub-ride with completely visible lines holding them in place?

 

[POLY LOVER]

To say Disney is a place that the management has lost control of is wacky. They can fix whatever needs fixing if they desire to. The prices are what the market will bare. They have to live with whatever issues they have caused. For example, No outside force did this to DHS.

What can,t be fixed are people just looking for something to be mildly wrong so they can get something for free. In defense Disney somewhat brings this on when they run ads like be our guest put our service to the test. Disney set the idea of a perfect world and some take that literally. Can you make everyone happy? We,'ll no but you can sure try.

 

[POLY LOVER]

Just about anything is fixable if it is man made. The factors that enter into it are cost and motivation. The Yeti is probably fixable, probably at a considerable cost with no guarantee that it won't fail again. It was a badly engineered AA. Even if it's the framework and not the AA itself, it still needs a stable framework to function. Then they would have considered that the expense is not going to have a payback. The ride is almost always accompanied by a long line, so they are running it at maximum, what is to be gained by spending all that money on it other then make giddy a handful of fans that know it ever moved. We keep forgetting that most people do not pay much attention to a Disney Park unless they are standing in it a some point. And then it is only while they are there.They don't know what is supposed to happen so they are completely without a clue if something is wrong. Heck, I've been going there for 32 years and have yet to commit to memory exactly what every attraction is supposed to have and what they are supposed to do.

The next argument, of course, is that Walt would have fixed it. Maybe, but, if he saw it as something that he could do without, the chances are he would have done without it. Maybe replace it with a smaller, less elaborate Yeti, but, he also might have done the same thing that they did. Strobe it! It's there, it gives the illusion of movement and illusion was his business. Remember the fish in the Sub-ride with completely visible lines holding them in place?

So then why build a moving Yeti into the ride if you recognize the engineering stinks and if it ever breaks we will never fix it. Just build a stationary Yeti and not embarass yourself.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So then why build a moving Yeti into the ride if you recognize the engineering stinks and if it ever breaks we will never fix it. Just build a stationary Yeti and not embarass yourself.

I don't think that they knew the engineering stunk until after it was built and in operation. Had they pulled it off, it would have been a real feather in their cap, however, it didn't live up to expectations.

 

[POLY LOVER]

I don't think that they knew the engineering stunk until after it was built and in operation. Had they pulled it off, it would have been a real feather in their cap, however, it didn't live up to expectations.

I wonder how Disney who are the master of AA create something that fails. How many times does the hall of presidents break down or the cop? If it did would they just let it stay broken. Sorry this kind of stuff just bugs me.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I wonder how Disney who are the master of AA create something that fails. How many times does the hall of presidents break down or the cop? If it did would they just let it stay broken. Sorry this kind of stuff just bugs me.

Well, this was that largest multi-movement AA ever created so it was new territory. Granted any engineer worth his weight would have calculated the stress properly on the steel frame, but, either they had a week battery in their calculator or they didn't know what they were doing. Take your pick. Universal had larger AA's (Kong), but, none that had that range of motion. Not an excuse, but, probably a reason for the mess.

 

[POLY LOVER]

Well, this was that largest multi-movement AA ever created so it was new territory. Granted any engineer worth his weight would have calculated the stress properly on the steel frame, but, either they had a week battery in their calculator or they didn't know what they were doing. Take your pick. Universal had larger AA's (Kong), but, none that had that range of motion. Not an excuse, but, probably a reason for the mess.

You make good points , but it's sad. Every breakdown like this that doesn't get fixed makes me wonder what Walt would be saying.

 

[DManRightHere]

People get hung up on the $100/day thing.. it is a misleading argument.. how many people are actually paying $100/day? Most people are going for about a week.. 5 day tickets are an average of $63/day, 6 days are $54, and it gets cheaper from there.. I don't have the numbers, but I would imagine that the people that are paying $100/day are a tiny fraction of the guests through the gates..
Compare that to other forms of entertainment.. last year, the traveling show of Beauty and the Beast came to town, and tickets were $75pp, and that wasn't even the good seats.. and that is for 3 hours of entertainment.. for another $25, we could have spent 12+ hours at the happiest place on earth..
Compare that to NBA/NFL/NHL games.. it is not uncommon for people to spend several hundred dollars per ticket..

Given the number of South American tourist groups, a park in Rio might not be a bad idea.

i still think it is a much higher percentage of single day park guests than any of us think. Just basically off of the Disney resorts capacity compared to park capacity, how many families visit other orlando theme parks, and how many people you see at ticket counters.

 

[POLY LOVER]

i still think it is a much higher percentage of single day park guests than any of us think. Just basically off of the Disney resorts capacity compared to park capacity, how many families visit other orlando theme parks, and how many people you see at ticket counters.

This was probably even more true when you could buy multiple days with free no expiration dates.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You make good points , but it's sad. Every breakdown like this that doesn't get fixed makes me wonder what Walt would be saying.

It's impossible to tell what Walt would have said. I stated earlier that Walt was very creative and didn't easily give up, but, he also had enough sense to understand that somethings just don't work. So he would change it if it wasn't logical to try and make something work when there were other options. That is something that I think people confuse about Mr. Disney. He was massively creative and made many things work just by being stubborn about it, but, even he wasn't infallible. He had many failures and when that happened he just went in a different direction. Even he had to occasionally accept reality.

 

[Chef Mickey]

The crowds only prove it's still too cheap.

I'll pay double to reduce crowds 50% right now if I could.

 

[1023]

People get hung up on the $100/day thing.. it is a misleading argument.. how many people are actually paying $100/day? Most people are going for about a week.. 5 day tickets are an average of $63/day, 6 days are $54, and it gets cheaper from there.. I don't have the numbers, but I would imagine that the people that are paying $100/day are a tiny fraction of the guests through the gates..
Compare that to other forms of entertainment.. last year, the traveling show of Beauty and the Beast came to town, and tickets were $75pp, and that wasn't even the good seats.. and that is for 3 hours of entertainment.. for another $25, we could have spent 12+ hours at the happiest place on earth..
Compare that to NBA/NFL/NHL games.. it is not uncommon for people to spend several hundred dollars per ticket..

Given the number of South American tourist groups, a park in Rio might not be a bad idea.

This argument is specious. The diminishing cost of attendance per day has nothing to do with the actual cash grab. You said it yourself, You are going for a week. A week of Food, Drink, Snacks, Hotel, and Merchandise. $100 a day would be cheap compared to all those factors. If you stay on-site you avoid parking, if you are off site then bye bye $20 a day. The average guest on a Magic Your Way ticket is spending far more than $100 per day.

Comparing a show to a theme park doesn't really work. Assuming it did, did you stand in line for 40 minutes between 5 minutes of entertainment time? Did you have to book your place in line at the concession stand 60 days in advance? And to spend 12+ hours at "The Happiest Place on Earth", you would have to spend 4 more hours on a plane to California because that is where Disneyland is.

Similarly, sporting events don't compare well to theme parks for very similar reasons outlined above.

I would be happy to see the total number of visitors drop back down (regardless of where they visit from) but that would reduce this location's need for more and intriguing attractions.

The only approach from a cost/benefit position for anyone should be this question: Is this vacation worth what the total cost is for me. (Per day, per week, whatever....)

*1023*