Soarin' Evacuation (7/16/19)

[KCheatle]

I'm not disputing anything by this - - just stating that I find it a bit odd that it was a fire alarm, but the people in the ride didn't or couldn't hear it?? I'm suprised that legally WDW is allowed to "silence" the fire alarm in any part of a building open to the public and only make it known to CMs when it goes off??

 

[Goofyque']

It could be anything. If there is a medical emergency, no one is told anything, and a safe evacuation is mandatory. I trust the cm's to tell me what I need to know, to keep me and other guests safe, and to know the difference between need to know and idle curiosity. Guest services can deal with all other issues.

 

[drizgirl]

The fact that some here think getting a free FP (replacement or otherwise) is more important than safe evacuation of a building during a fire (potential or real) is in my mind ridiculous. I'm no longer going to try and reason with that perspective because it is beyond reason. I'm out!

Didn't say that. At all.

 

[NormC]

If you want some sort of compensation for your lost FP you simply need to go to Guest Services and ask. They will have the details of the event and will be able to provide for your needs. The CMs tasked with a safe and timely evacuation are only going to be focused on doing that.

 

[donsullivan]

I'm not disputing anything by this - - just stating that I find it a bit odd that it was a fire alarm, but the people in the ride didn't or couldn't hear it?? I'm suprised that legally WDW is allowed to "silence" the fire alarm in any part of a building open to the public and only make it known to CMs when it goes off??

Its possible they have a specific approval to suppress most audible alerts within attraction show buildings, specifically to prevent a panic with onboard guests. Once guests start hearing that, many are going to start doing irrational and extremely dangerous things.

Let's use Haunted Mansion as an example. If a guest jumps out of their doom buggy after hearing an alarm and starts trying to find the way out on there own before a controlled evacuation starts, they might fall into the netting around Madame Leota (you are actually on a 2nd floor there and the space is wide open below and be injured, slowing an evacuation and introducing additional dangers. Or they could try and jump between the moving vehicles where there are countless gaps in the floor along the track beam and have a leg fall through and be injured or trapped, etc.. These are just some examples of the need to minimize panic among guests and ensure a safe and controlled evacuation.

edit: Wow, i just saw a HM evac video from this month and the whole seance room has changed dramatically since I last got evac’ed.

I have no concrete facts to back this up, just trying to draw some reasonable conclusions based on 35+ years of visiting.

 

[KCheatle]

Its possible they have a specific approval to suppress most audible alerts within attraction show buildings, specifically to prevent a panic with onboard guests. Once guests start hearing that, many are going to start doing irrational and extremely dangerous things.

Let's use Haunted Mansion as an example. If a guest jumps out of their doom buggy after hearing an alarm and starts trying to find the way out on there own before a controlled evacuation starts, they might fall into the netting around Madame Leota (you are actually on a 2nd floor there and the space is wide open below and be injured, slowing an evacuation and introducing additional dangers. Or they could try and jump between the moving vehicles where there are countless gaps in the floor along the track beam and have a leg fall through and be injured or trapped, etc.. These are just some examples of the need to minimize panic among guests and ensure a safe and controlled evacuation.

I have no concrete facts to back this up, just trying to draw some reasonable conclusions based on 35+ years of visiting.

That makes sense- I can definitely see how in risk-benefit comparison it may be more risky to broadcast it.

 

[Rob562]

I'm not disputing anything by this - - just stating that I find it a bit odd that it was a fire alarm, but the people in the ride didn't or couldn't hear it?? I'm suprised that legally WDW is allowed to "silence" the fire alarm in any part of a building open to the public and only make it known to CMs when it goes off??

Presumably the fire alarms in some areas of Disney are set up the same way that many professional live-performance theaters are (at least in the U.S).

In some situations there is a "silent alarm" signaled to theater staff. This alerts building personnel to investigate something that might just be a malfunctioning sensor. It also gives "front of house" staff like the ushers a chance to get into their assigned places to be prepared to direct audience members in a calm and orderly fashion to the exits, and lets key people like stage managers and the conductor know that this is something that's going on. The worst possible thing that can happen is you have a packed theater full of a couple thousand people, fire alarm horns go off in the darkness, the orchestra is still playing, ushers aren't in position and a few people start screaming, all for a false alarm because a bit of dust backstage set off a smoke detector.

But even in cases like those, fire alarm systems typically do eventually sound their alarms after a pre-programmed delay which is mutually agreed upon by building operators and the local fire marshal. I may be wrong, but I think alarm delays are either shorter or non-existent for the wall-mounted pull-stations, which except for trouble-makers are typically less likely to be false alarms.

In a theme park where you have large numbers of guests in compact spaces, you similarly want to avoid any possible chance of setting off a panic.

-Rob

 

[Heppenheimer]

Presumably the fire alarms in some areas of Disney are set up the same way that many professional live-performance theaters are (at least in the U.S).

In some situations there is a "silent alarm" signaled to theater staff. This alerts building personnel to investigate something that might just be a malfunctioning sensor. It also gives "front of house" staff like the ushers a chance to get into their assigned places to be prepared to direct audience members in a calm and orderly fashion to the exits, and lets key people like stage managers and the conductor know that this is something that's going on. The worst possible thing that can happen is you have a packed theater full of a couple thousand people, fire alarm horns go off in the darkness, the orchestra is still playing, ushers aren't in position and a few people start screaming, all for a false alarm because a bit of dust backstage set off a smoke detector.

But even in cases like those, fire alarm systems typically do eventually sound their alarms after a pre-programmed delay which is mutually agreed upon by building operators and the local fire marshal. I may be wrong, but I think alarm delays are either shorter or non-existent for the wall-mounted pull-stations, which except for trouble-makers are typically less likely to be false alarms.

In a theme park where you have large numbers of guests in compact spaces, you similarly want to avoid any possible chance of setting off a panic.

-Rob

Wasn't there a famous theater fire sometime in the 19th or early 20th century that basically illustrates the need for what you described? If I recall the event correctly, the crush of panicking people prevented an orderly exit, and probably made the death toll far higher than it otherwise would have been.

Also, if it was a medical emergency, health privacy laws may prevent the staff from discussing the event... come to think of it, I don't remember any portion of HIPPA covering theme park workers, but I'm sure Disney probably has internal policies that align with the spirit of the law.

 

[jloucks]

But you can have both, safety and security and good customer service.

Correct. They are not mutually exclusive.

The more dire the situation, the less good customer service becomes possible... assuming you define good customer service as nicety and not safety.

Situations can boil down to sternly & calmly shouting commands at people without explanation. I guess you could call that rude or professional depending on your end goal.

Time is the real stickler here, there is no time for fluff. Niceties are often fluff.

Of course, your point is valid in the situation this thread highlights. There was no way it was dire enough to not have nicety at the point evacuees were at a safe distance. I suspect liability gags are put on staff.

 

[Chef Mickey]

If anyone was upset about the CMs forgetting to give people a make up FP... All anyone would have to do is go to Guest Relations and explain what happened, and then they'd just give them a FP.

Easier said than done. Guest Relations is a total cluster and must be avoided at all costs to not drain an hour of time. People love complaining, so it's always packed.

 

[aaron611]

The fact that some here think getting a free FP (replacement or otherwise) is more important than safe evacuation of a building during a fire (potential or real) is in my mind ridiculous. I'm no longer going to try and reason with that perspective because it is beyond reason. I'm out!

Literally no one here is suggesting that.

Let me reiterate and clarify:

We were directed out of the building; that took maybe two minutes. Whatever possible urgent safety issue was mitigated at that point.

We then spent several minutes being herded around the back of other buildings before being deposited in front of Journey. Everyone was passively obeying and following the leader. I think we all thought we were going to receive at least a vague explanation or a “we apologize for the inconvenience“.

Nothing. Literally nothing.

The ride continued to operate and The Land was not evacuated.

Like I say, I wouldn’t bother posting about it except for how weird and mysterious it seemed.

 

[DuckTalesWooHoo1987]

Wasn't there a famous theater fire sometime in the 19th or early 20th century that basically illustrates the need for what you described? If I recall the event correctly, the crush of panicking people prevented an orderly exit, and probably made the death toll far higher than it otherwise would have been.

Also, if it was a medical emergency, health privacy laws may prevent the staff from discussing the event... come to think of it, I don't remember any portion of HIPPA covering theme park workers, but I'm sure Disney probably has internal policies that align with the spirit of the law.

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're referring to but I'm actually a baptist preacher and one of my all time heroes was a man named Charles Haddon Spurgeon and he was an EXTREMELY popular baptist preacher in London in the late 1800's. Once he was preaching in a huge church and there were literally thousands there to hear him and someone yelled "fire" and incited a panic and several people were killed by being trampled and there was no fire. He never got over that and struggled with it the rest of his life but I can certainly see why you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater and it would actually be wise if Disney didn't allow the news of a fire to be broadcasted with that many kids around.

 

[Rob562]

Wasn't there a famous theater fire sometime in the 19th or early 20th century that basically illustrates the need for what you described? If I recall the event correctly, the crush of panicking people prevented an orderly exit, and probably made the death toll far higher than it otherwise would have been.

There was the Iroquois Theater fire in Chicago in 1903, the deadliest fire in US history, and the Cocoanut Grove fire in 1942 here in Boston, the second deadliest. Both followed similar stories: venues filled beyond capacity, locked/bolted/hard to open fire exits, poorly planned exits with inward-swinging doors, flammable scenery.... At the Cocoanut Grove, the main entry only had a revolving door, which jammed up as people tried to exit. After the Cocoanut Grove, there was a national push for fire regulations, including regular doors next to revolving doors.

-Rob

 

[Jon81uk]

Presumably the fire alarms in some areas of Disney are set up the same way that many professional live-performance theaters are (at least in the U.S).

In some situations there is a "silent alarm" signaled to theater staff. This alerts building personnel to investigate something that might just be a malfunctioning sensor. It also gives "front of house" staff like the ushers a chance to get into their assigned places to be prepared to direct audience members in a calm and orderly fashion to the exits, and lets key people like stage managers and the conductor know that this is something that's going on. The worst possible thing that can happen is you have a packed theater full of a couple thousand people, fire alarm horns go off in the darkness, the orchestra is still playing, ushers aren't in position and a few people start screaming, all for a false alarm because a bit of dust backstage set off a smoke detector.

But even in cases like those, fire alarm systems typically do eventually sound their alarms after a pre-programmed delay which is mutually agreed upon by building operators and the local fire marshal. I may be wrong, but I think alarm delays are either shorter or non-existent for the wall-mounted pull-stations, which except for trouble-makers are typically less likely to be false alarms.

In a theme park where you have large numbers of guests in compact spaces, you similarly want to avoid any possible chance of setting off a panic.

-Rob

I used to work in a department store and it was very similar. If a detector thought there was a fire, the announcement was "staff call 100", this alerted everyone to be ready to evacuate and gave the security and facilities team time to investigate. If they didn't cancel the alarm within two minutes then the alarm would automatically go to "Please evacuate the building by the nearest available exit, do no use the lifts" and staff would usher customers out before leaving themselves.

 

[dreamfinder]

Maybe it's some kind of thing to be very deliberate with instructions and not give much detail.

The last thing that anyone needs is for a guest to be told by a CM "Fire alarm went off" and then suddenly Twitter lights up with "Fire at WDW causes emergency evacuation" and then less than reputable news sources run that on their scroll, and suddenly WDW is issuing a press release to try to tamp down something that is really a non story. Never mind the general in park panic that might ensue. It's safer to only tell people what they need to know. Sure, stuff trickles out after the fact, but that's a different scenario and can be handled much more responsibly.

 

[Ted Daggett]

We were on Splash Mtn and the ride stopped when we were about 3 logs before the drop for the Laughin' Place. The music stopped, the lights came on, and we were told that a CM would come to assist us to get out of the logs. Several CMs arrived within a couple of minutes, released the restraint bars, and had us get out of the log one at a time and line up along the wall. When everyone that was in sight was out of the logs, we walked single file to an exit, and down an emergency staircase into the back of Magic Kingdom. There were old parade floats, and old SM logs (it was pretty cool to see, I must say). As we walked through the "door" to get back into the park, a CM gave us a paper FP that could be used on any ride (except 7dmt). No one ever mentioned what the problem was, or why we were being evacuated. Now everytime we ride SM, when we get to that section of the ride, my kids (and me) all announce, "this is where we got stuck and had to walk down". It was annoying at the time, but made for a great memory.

 

[donsullivan]

We were on Splash Mtn and the ride stopped when we were about 3 logs before the drop for the Laughin' Place. The music stopped, the lights came on, and we were told that a CM would come to assist us to get out of the logs. Several CMs arrived within a couple of minutes, released the restraint bars, and had us get out of the log one at a time and line up along the wall. When everyone that was in sight was out of the logs, we walked single file to an exit, and down an emergency staircase into the back of Magic Kingdom. There were old parade floats, and old SM logs (it was pretty cool to see, I must say). As we walked through the "door" to get back into the park, a CM gave us a paper FP that could be used on any ride (except 7dmt). No one ever mentioned what the problem was, or why we were being evacuated. Now everytime we ride SM, when we get to that section of the ride, my kids (and me) all announce, "this is where we got stuck and had to walk down". It was annoying at the time, but made for a great memory.

It sounds like you were evacuated for a normal mechanical or other operational '101' vs an emergency due to fire alarm or similar. There is certainly a lot less urgency in those events and when they do happen, while they are often slower, the team do have the opportunity to grab the stack of paper FP's or now it's grab the iPad/iPod and launch the app to scan bands to add the FP to your account. I've had that on multiple attractions that went 101 due to mechanical or in one case a guest injury at unload (I learned if the details later, not while it was happening) in the Mexico Boat Ride.

And to go back to my earlier example about evacuations. Since those boats don't have restraints, there were guests climbing out of their boats and walking along the edge of the attraction along some very, very narrow paths, climbing over large pots of plants toward a door that had an exit sign. They were too important to wait for the CM's in the hip waders to pull their boat (they turned off the propulsion) to the safe evacuation location so they could go up the stairs and out the door. The evacuation wasn't going fast enough for them so they chose to put themselves and others in danger and slow the whole process down as CM's had to deal with them instead of an orderly evacuation.

 

[jrogue]

This reminds me of the time years ago when I was there when the kid got dragged into the seven seas lagoon by the alligator and there was a helicopter flying kinda low over WDW. No cast member was allowed to say why the helicopter was there and then the next day when I was on the monorail while they were retrieving the body again no one was allowed to tell us why. (Ended up finding out later due to matching times)

So yeah if it's something really bad they probably go with less information for guests to try and refrain from causing any kind of panic or disruption.

 

[Disney.Mike]

The fact that some here think getting a free FP (replacement or otherwise) is more important than safe evacuation of a building during a fire (potential or real) is in my mind ridiculous. I'm no longer going to try and reason with that perspective because it is beyond reason. I'm out!

No one is suggesting that getting a free FP is more important. But once CMs have people evac'd and accounted for they should use the scanner to put the FP on people magic band...

Things happen but when you A) use your ONE useful FP on Soarin or B) sit in line for 2 hours to be evac'd, its not unfair to expect for some of your time to be refunded (by getting a FP)....

Yea, you could spend an hour and half going to and dealing with guest services to get a FP for a ride with an hour and half wait... but that kind of defeats the purpose.

 

[HoldenC]

No one is suggesting that getting a free FP is more important. But once CMs have people evac'd and accounted for they should use the scanner to put the FP on people magic band...

Things happen but when you A) use your ONE useful FP on Soarin or B) sit in line for 2 hours to be evac'd, its not unfair to expect for some of your time to be refunded (by getting a FP)....

Yea, you could spend an hour and half going to and dealing with guest services to get a FP for a ride with an hour and half wait... but that kind of defeats the purpose.

This guest entitlement is why I'm glad I left the company. Boo hoo your time was "ruined", get over it! You don't deserve any compensation