So resistant to change.

[musketeer]

It amazes me how resistant people here are to change. Just reading the thread on the new waiting system being tested, I think it's a great idea, but there is so much negativity and how it will never work and a bad idea.

You have to wonder if the internet had existed long ago, what would the discussion boards look like.

- They're planning on building another park called Epcot??? It's going to be really confusing and will never work.

- So Epcot is going to have a theme in one part of the park, and a completel different one in another part of the park, it will never work.

- They're going to add a ride from California Adventure to the Land, they're going to mess up the whole Land Pavilion, it'll never work.

- Another hotel, it's getting way too complicated here, it'll never work.

- Fastpass system, way too complicated, it'll never work (for some reason, still up for debate, but for the life of me can't figure out why anyone would think fastpass is a bad idea)

- They're doing away with the A-E ticket system, that will be so confusing and will never work.

- Yet another park, devoted to movies, it'll never work.

- Now a Disney Zoo, it'll never work.

- They are going to make a change to ride x, how dare they do that to try and make it better.

- Now Disney is going to build cruise ships, what a dumb idea, it'll never work.

- Vacation packages, multi-day tickets, park-hopping, WAY too complicated, it'll never work.

- A ride based on Song of the South, it'll never work.

- Free transportation service from the airport, way too complicated, it'll never work.

- A new ride based on cars replacing the World of Motion, it won't be popular, it'll never work.



As much as people on here complain about those who think Disney can do no wrong, there are just as many who think that they can do no right...yet for some reason they keep going back, year after year.

I just wonder if I'm in the minority who feel the place gets better and better, and that change usually results in improvement.

It's almost like people actually believe that the upper levels of Disney management sit around tables discussing how they can screw things up.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Is this classed as a positive post or a moaning one?

Im sure no management teams sit around discussing how to screw up, yet the banks and GM show its quite a trend.

And if change is always good why was the Stitch show cut after a blink of an eye?

 

[lebeau]

I agree with your general point that people seem to be resistant to change. The moaning and wailing over at the RnR testing thread was ridiculous. But since you brought it up, here's why FP is a bad idea:

1. It does not make lines shorter. FP does not create capacity. It merely redistributes the wait time from those who use FP to those who don't.

2. FP is confusing to many. When you're a Disney expert like most of us on the forums, it's hard to believe that people would be confused by FP, but they are. And Disney does a lousy job of educating the casual tourist on FP. You'd be amazed how many people think you have to pay to use it.

3. It creates a system of "haves and have not". Even those who know the basics of FP are still going to suffer compared to those of us who know how to game the system. FP is beloved by the Disney faithful because it benefits us tremendously at the expense of countless casual tourists who are actually Disney's bread and butter.

4. It circumvents some beautifully themed queues. This is a minor one, but some people are against FP because using it causes you to miss some great work by the Imagineers in queues like Expedition Everest.

5. Disney does not enforce its own policies with regards to FP. Any kind of efficiencies which may be built into the FP system get utterly destroyed by guests coming back after their FP window has expired. Disney can't really enforce these time windows because they would have irate customers on their hands. So instead, the system is broken by unenforced return times.

Yes, the new system has the potential to be even more confusing than FP. But if it is well-executed, I see several advantages. If there is no choice but to use the new system, people will figure it out. And if leaving the waiting area means giving up your place in line, everyone benefits from it equally.

The potential is there for this system to be really amazing. I'm cautiously optimistic Disney will pull it off. And I am thrilled they are actually running tests before even breaking ground on Dumbo.

 

[musketeer]

4. It circumvents some beautifully themed queues. This is a minor one, but some people are against FP because using it causes you to miss some great work by the Imagineers in queues like Expedition Everest.

What other than Expedition Everest? Maybe Toy Story Mania?

 

[lebeau]

What other than Expedition Everest? Maybe Toy Story Mania?

TSM was the other one that came to mind for me. This is a non-issue for me. But I've heard other people use it as an argument against FP, so I figured I'd throw it out there.

The new system would not have this problem as the queue would be the waiting area.

 

[Master Yoda]

I agree with your general point that people seem to be resistant to change. The moaning and wailing over at the RnR testing thread was ridiculous. But since you brought it up, here's why FP is a bad idea:

1. It does not make lines shorter. FP does not create capacity. It merely redistributes the wait time from those who use FP to those who don't. Very true but it is not designed to increase capacity. It is designed to put a guest in a store or another attraction and it does that very well.

2. FP is confusing to many. When you're a Disney expert like most of us on the forums, it's hard to believe that people would be confused by FP, but they are. And Disney does a lousy job of educating the casual tourist on FP. You'd be amazed how many people think you have to pay to use it. I honestly think Disney does everything they can do aside form holding mandatory Fastpass education classes for every guest entering the park. The simple fact is that some people will not read instructions and then want to blame someone else for their ignorance of how things work. FP is beyond simple and works just fine.

3. It creates a system of "haves and have not". Even those who know the basics of FP are still going to suffer compared to those of us who know how to game the system. FP is beloved by the Disney faithful because it benefits us tremendously at the expense of countless casual tourists who are actually Disney's bread and butter. Not really. It creates the haves and have not feeling with those who do not use it for what ever reason. The simple fact is that every single guest that walks through the gates at a WDW park has equal access to FP. The haves and have not idea only has validity on the FP system used at parks like US.

4. It circumvents some beautifully themed queues. This is a minor one, but some people are against FP because using it causes you to miss some great work by the Imagineers in queues like Expedition Everest. Quite true but unfortunately those details are largely wasted on those whose attention spans can only me measured in nanoseconds.

5. Disney does not enforce its own policies with regards to FP. Any kind of efficiencies which may be built into the FP system get utterly destroyed by guests coming back after their FP window has expired. Disney can't really enforce these time windows because they would have irate customers on their hands. So instead, the system is broken by unenforced return times. Again very true. Late fastpasses should not be accepted.

Yes, the new system has the potential to be even more confusing than FP. But if it is well-executed, I see several advantages. If there is no choice but to use the new system, people will figure it out. And if leaving the waiting area means giving up your place in line, everyone benefits from it equally.

The potential is there for this system to be really amazing. I'm cautiously optimistic Disney will pull it off. And I am thrilled they are actually running tests before even breaking ground on Dumbo.

...

 

[musketeer]

TSM was the other one that came to mind for me. This is a non-issue for me. But I've heard other people use it as an argument against FP, so I figured I'd throw it out there.

The new system would not have this problem as the queue would be the waiting area.

I see people making that arguemnt all the time, but aside from those two examples, I don't think it applies anywhere else. For the rides with really great waiting areas, you either go through the same part with fastpass, or the part you skip isn't worth seeing and you join the regular line before the good stuff anyway. (examples: Rock'n'Rollercoaster, Tower of Terror)

And I still disagree with all the other arguements against fastpass anyway. I'd much rather go on another ride, have a meal, or just sit somewhere than wait in a line.

And for the haves and have nots argument...it really isn't that difficult to figure out the system.

I remember being in the normal line for something a while ago, and this woman in front of me was so mad because "all these fastpass people get to go ahead, what did they do to deserve this, why are they better than me?"

It is her not willing to understand a very simple system that creates this haves and have not idea, that simply doesn't exist.

 

[DisneyLeo18]

I agree there is often a lot of resistance to change on here, but some times the people here are right.

The RnRc idea seems a bit odd to me, but I haven't experienced it so I will not judge it. But this brings to mind one thing I really disliked that disney did, changing the queue for RnRc. I think it worked so much better before when they let a small group go into the building and then into the pre-show instead of the whole line wrapping around and inside the building and adding the single rider line (this not so bad if it was implemented with the old queue style). I wasn't a member of these boards then so I'm not sure about the reaction it had, but I was pretty upset.

However this is a discussion forum and that's why we have varying opinions. :wave:

 

[tirian]

Change is wonderful when it's an improvement over the old ways, but glorifying change for its own sake leads to disaster. The idea that Change is Always Good is a juvenile, corporate-speak catch phrase tossed about by people who don't want to be responsible for their actions. But without change, we'd still be learning the earth is the center of the universe.

There was a time when people would applaud any change Disney announced, but fans have been burned so many times, they tend to get pessimistic. The biggest reason IMO is that over the last decade, Disney has made spreadsheet-based changes without regarding quality or real-world—not theoretical—feasibility.

Here's a quick overview of the last few years:

Good (or at least decent) Changes:
• HM refurb
• PotC refurb (controversial at the time, but turned out decent)
• IaSW refurb
• SSE ascent
• E:E
• The Finding Nemo show
• Toy Story Midway Mania
• Expanded Osborne Lights
• HoP (to a degree; it's just as historically inaccurate as ever)
• American Adventure
• Rolling maintenance throughout the resort (except for E:E )
• The Land pavilion relaunch, including Soarin' (although the aesthetics have all the charm of a 90s-era shopping mall)
• The Seas overlay
• The Three Caballeros
• Photopass
• Added capacity to the waterparks
• Main Street bakery/crystal shop renovations
• Epcot's identity rediscovered
• The Fantasyland expansion, featuring the MK's first E-ticket since 1992
• Various little things, like adding steps to the sides of the tall horses on the carousel, and reconfiguring Pecos Bill's ordering system

/// Unfortunately, the "Good Changes" addressed problems WDW management allowed for years. Some of the issues should have been resolved much earlier. Notice that nearly all of these positive changes occurred within a three-year span.

Bad (or shall we say "Misguided"?) Changes:

• Over a DECADE of nothing new, and no standard maintenance, at the MK
• The exact same day parade recycled repeatedly
• Increased ticket prices with reduced entertainment and food choices (before the recession)
• Grossly inflated hotel prices that rarely charge rack rate due to all the discounts
• Bland, generic, sometimes disgusting food choices, especially compared to the culinary delights WDW had long ago. The DDP is partly responsible
• Bland, generic, Wal-Mart-quality merchandise
• Allowing PI to fall apart instead of renovating it when Americans had money to spend
• Closing PI without any secure plans
• The Imagination pavilion. Twice.
• A stale period for Epcot, best represented by a cardboard cutout that towered over the park's architecture for almost a decade
• The hat at the Studios
• Monsters Inc. (amusing with no repeatability factor)
• SSE's unfinished descent
• Lying about the LoW cut
• Cutting the Country Bear Christmas
• Cutting holiday decorations throughout the resort
• Cutting food portions
• Cutting menu options
• Cutting unique, resort-exclusive merchandise
• Cutting the length of hard-ticket event fireworks
• Cutting labor budgets (before the recession)
• Cutting the quality of food and candy given at hard-ticket events
• Cutting the Wonders of Life pavilion
• Cutting DVC perks
• Cutting further expansion to DAK (an entire land and nighttime entertainment)
• Cutting WDW-centric celebrations, such as...
• Ignoring WDW's 35th anniversary and almost completely ignoring Epcot's 25th
• Overbooking sit-down restaurants with the DDP
• Allowing 180 freaking days for hard-nose planners to fill the sit-down restaurants, making it impossible for first-time Guests to enjoy anything but burgers and fries
• Raising the prices of hard-ticket events to almost regular ticket prices
• Over-advertising hard-ticket events, leading to immense crowds
• Forcing guests to pay for seasonal entertainment at the MK instead of including it with daily admission—like every other Disney park does
• Closing stores and attractions instead of adding to the selection
• Stitch's Great Escape
• Stitch's Dance Party
• Stitch's Christmas Dance Party (a.k.a. A Totally Tomorrowland Christmas)
• Closing every attraction that made Main Street a land and reducing it to a shopping strip
• Allowing outdated attractions to linger and slowly die (UoE, Drew Carey)
• Overdoing FP on attractions that would run smoother without it
• Testing the Dumbo queue system on RNR, an attraction that doesn't have anything to offer while you're waiting

/// The good news is, most of these problems are now being addressed and fixed. :sohappy: It only took them almost twenty years.

Too-Early-to-Tell Changes:

• Offering a steady stream of discounts to keep the parks full during a recession (keeps folks employed, but might hurt the resort when the discounts disappear)
• PI is finally getting a plan
• American Idol (since the show is losing viewers with every new season)
• Coming refurbs to Adventureland

 

[Figment632]

It amazes me how resistant people here are to change. Just reading the thread on the new waiting system being tested, I think it's a great idea, but there is so much negativity and how it will never work and a bad idea.

You have to wonder if the internet had existed long ago, what would the discussion boards look like.

- They're planning on building another park called Epcot??? It's going to be really confusing and will never work.

- So Epcot is going to have a theme in one part of the park, and a completel different one in another part of the park, it will never work.

- They're going to add a ride from California Adventure to the Land, they're going to mess up the whole Land Pavilion, it'll never work.

- Another hotel, it's getting way too complicated here, it'll never work.

- Fastpass system, way too complicated, it'll never work (for some reason, still up for debate, but for the life of me can't figure out why anyone would think fastpass is a bad idea)

- They're doing away with the A-E ticket system, that will be so confusing and will never work.

- Yet another park, devoted to movies, it'll never work.

- Now a Disney Zoo, it'll never work.

- They are going to make a change to ride x, how dare they do that to try and make it better.

- Now Disney is going to build cruise ships, what a dumb idea, it'll never work.

- Vacation packages, multi-day tickets, park-hopping, WAY too complicated, it'll never work.

- A ride based on Song of the South, it'll never work.

- Free transportation service from the airport, way too complicated, it'll never work.

- A new ride based on cars replacing the World of Motion, it won't be popular, it'll never work.



As much as people on here complain about those who think Disney can do no wrong, there are just as many who think that they can do no right...yet for some reason they keep going back, year after year.

I just wonder if I'm in the minority who feel the place gets better and better, and that change usually results in improvement.

It's almost like people actually believe that the upper levels of Disney management sit around tables discussing how they can screw things up.

imo It looks like you snort a lot of Pixie Dust.

 

[SirGoofy]

• Coming refurbs to Adventureland

Good thing.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Good thing.

If your an 8 year old girl :goodnevil

 

[SirGoofy]

If your an 8 year old girl :goodnevil

In Adventureland?:shrug:

Not really.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

In Adventureland?:shrug:

Not really.

Perhaps Im missing the boys own adventure of playing house, even one in a tree, an annoying parrot and Dumbo lite.

 

[SirGoofy]

Perhaps Im missing the boys own adventure of playing house, even one in a tree, an annoying parrot and Dumbo lite.

Well hopefully, if a rumor I've heard is true, the parrot will be gone.

Boys like Treehouses, last time I checked.

And the main part of the refurb would revolve around the Jungle Cruise.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Well hopefully, if a rumor I've heard is true, the parrot will be gone.

Boys like Treehouses, last time I checked.

And the main part of the refurb would revolve around the Jungle Cruise.

But we all know Jungle Cruise lives and dies by the CM piloting the boat, not that Im suggesting Disney puts in some taped voice.

Its still a bit light weight even if the rumours of the veranda area came about. The attractions are very similar, voyeristic engagements almost. Though I understand space would limit any changes I just feel something a bit more in your face (non parrot type) would be nice.

 

[SirGoofy]

But we all know Jungle Cruise lives and dies by the CM piloting the boat, not that Im suggesting Disney puts in some taped voice.

True enough.

Its still a bit light weight even if the rumours of the veranda area came about. The attractions are very similar, voyeristic engagements almost. Though I understand space would limit any changes I just feel something a bit more in your face (non parrot type) would be nice.

They were looking at a Aland expansion this summer(apparently), and every option I heard was indeed in your face.

I think it'll be the next addition once Princess-fairy land is done.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

True enough.



They were looking at a Aland expansion this summer(apparently), and every option I heard was indeed in your face.

I think it'll be the next addition once Princess-fairy land is done.

When I was outside Splash last week there were three guys (one Disney two suppliers) discussing server upgrades, Im sure I heard one mention audio upgrades and something to do with the photos. I may have got the wrong end of the stick, I was taking pictures at the time, but there was mention of an on board capability. :shrug: Is splash due for a refurb too?

 

[SirGoofy]

When I was outside Splash last week there were three guys (one Disney two suppliers) discussing server upgrades, Im sure I heard one mention audio upgrades and something to do with the photos. I may have got the wrong end of the stick, I was taking pictures at the time, but there was mention of an on board capability. :shrug: Is splash due for a refurb too?

Yea, January/February of '10. They will apparently being adding lap bars due to the amount of intrusions the ride has.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Yea, January/February of '10. They will apparently being adding lap bars due to the amount of intrusions the ride has.

Shame some arses have to spoil things for everyone else.