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So Disney is just all about the money, huh? They got nothin' on Six Flags!
- Thread starter djkidkaz
- Start date
LoriMistress
Well-Known Member
Very true...it's the same with Six Flags Discovery Kingdom. They park is--at best--a half day thing. Lack luster of rides and shows.
Mstr Gra-c
Active Member
There is a grand chasm between the Tronorail and what Six Flags is doing.
The Monorail is a transportation system not a ride. (In fact I believe it is actually registered as such with the NTSB is it not?) So to place an advertisement on it, is similar to placing an ad on a bus.
What Six Flags is doing is very different. These are ride vehicles. This would be like placing an ad on a doombuggy or a POTC Boat.
Besides, one is to advertise essentially internally...take a Disney property and advertise it. Six Flags is pimping thier RIDES for OUTSIDE business...and for chewing gum none the less.
The Monorail is a transportation system not a ride. (In fact I believe it is actually registered as such with the NTSB is it not?) So to place an advertisement on it, is similar to placing an ad on a bus.
What Six Flags is doing is very different. These are ride vehicles. This would be like placing an ad on a doombuggy or a POTC Boat.
Besides, one is to advertise essentially internally...take a Disney property and advertise it. Six Flags is pimping thier RIDES for OUTSIDE business...and for chewing gum none the less.
slappy magoo
Well-Known Member
It's been a while since I've gone to Six Flags Great Adventure, but the idea of there being advertising in the park is not new. It's just the sleek paint jobs on the cars that's relatively new. I remember as a kid in the seventies going on the old log flume, which was sponsored by Nestea Iced Tea, just before the big drop, there being a cheap ad warning Six Flags guests they were about to "Take the Nestea Plunge."
Furthermore, I remember for a while (I think it started in the early nineties), Great Adventure, instead of trying to create interesting pre-attraction queues to immerse you more into the experience of the attraction (with the swful Skull Mountain indoor coaster being one of the failed exceptions), they just gave up and installed TVs throughout the queues of their more popular attractions where longer waits were the norm. They'd show some Looney Tunes cartoons, some short skits by The Kids in the Hall, music videos, movie trailers...oh, and commercials. Lots of commercials. As I wrote, I haven't been to SFGA in at least...seven years I think. They may have made some significant changes. Just pointing out that lots of ads in a park that's already charging you a premium for really long waits and really short rides is nothing new.
Besides, having rides be "Sponsored" by products or corporations is nothing new at WDW either, especially Epcot. It's just that a: Disney tends to be least a little more subtle at it on the actual attractions (though there's plenty of advertising throughout the parks in one way or the other) and b: Because Disney itself has so much to advertise, I'd bet a lot of what I'd consider to be advertising blows right by a lot of people. The Disney Studios especially comes across as a giant billboard for whatever Disney is producing at any given moment. Hell, the rides themselves are often advertising for the movie upon which the ride is based (or vice versa) on DVD. To say nothing of the ads on the Disney buses, or in the resort common areas, the TVs in your resort room that seems so much more limited compared to other resorts (was recently in Hilton Head and can testify that, for those who want or need it, there are a heck of a lot more channels on that TV than the TV at WDW. At WDW, it's essentially all the local channels, plus any cable channel owned by Disney. And I'm not saying I need to watch Comedy Central or HBO when I'm on vacation. Just pointing out that it's another way to block access to other content (and other advertisements) so you're all about Disney (and Disney products) 24-7.
Considering how much easier it's become to trick out a new paint job on regular cars, I'd expect this sort of thing to happen much more often in non-Disney parks, especially for companies that can't commit to a long-term sponsorship of an attraction, or have a product with a limited shelf life (like the theatrical release of a movie). For a smaller figure, they can sponsor a rollercoaster for a few weeks just like they'd rent out a billboard on the highway. Sure, it's tacky, especially compared to well Disney (normally) dies it. But they alllll do it, Disney included.
Furthermore, I remember for a while (I think it started in the early nineties), Great Adventure, instead of trying to create interesting pre-attraction queues to immerse you more into the experience of the attraction (with the swful Skull Mountain indoor coaster being one of the failed exceptions), they just gave up and installed TVs throughout the queues of their more popular attractions where longer waits were the norm. They'd show some Looney Tunes cartoons, some short skits by The Kids in the Hall, music videos, movie trailers...oh, and commercials. Lots of commercials. As I wrote, I haven't been to SFGA in at least...seven years I think. They may have made some significant changes. Just pointing out that lots of ads in a park that's already charging you a premium for really long waits and really short rides is nothing new.
Besides, having rides be "Sponsored" by products or corporations is nothing new at WDW either, especially Epcot. It's just that a: Disney tends to be least a little more subtle at it on the actual attractions (though there's plenty of advertising throughout the parks in one way or the other) and b: Because Disney itself has so much to advertise, I'd bet a lot of what I'd consider to be advertising blows right by a lot of people. The Disney Studios especially comes across as a giant billboard for whatever Disney is producing at any given moment. Hell, the rides themselves are often advertising for the movie upon which the ride is based (or vice versa) on DVD. To say nothing of the ads on the Disney buses, or in the resort common areas, the TVs in your resort room that seems so much more limited compared to other resorts (was recently in Hilton Head and can testify that, for those who want or need it, there are a heck of a lot more channels on that TV than the TV at WDW. At WDW, it's essentially all the local channels, plus any cable channel owned by Disney. And I'm not saying I need to watch Comedy Central or HBO when I'm on vacation. Just pointing out that it's another way to block access to other content (and other advertisements) so you're all about Disney (and Disney products) 24-7.
Considering how much easier it's become to trick out a new paint job on regular cars, I'd expect this sort of thing to happen much more often in non-Disney parks, especially for companies that can't commit to a long-term sponsorship of an attraction, or have a product with a limited shelf life (like the theatrical release of a movie). For a smaller figure, they can sponsor a rollercoaster for a few weeks just like they'd rent out a billboard on the highway. Sure, it's tacky, especially compared to well Disney (normally) dies it. But they alllll do it, Disney included.
slappy magoo
Well-Known Member
Whether or not the monorail is classified as an attraction or as transportation, it's still considered a "ride" by millions of park goers. Don't get me wrong, I'm just being Devil's Advocate Boy here, but it's not like a lot of people have access to monorails, and it's still quite unique to most folks. You'll even see an occasional forum member talk about driving to the MK parking lot instead of taking the bus because the monorail is such a part of their park going experience.
Again, though, if you're going to try to point out that what Disney does is OK because of who they are (as opposed to how they do it), I'd like to point out that Walt Disney himself, despite making attractions based on his movies or other properties, also like to make the distinction that his parks were supposed to be a place where you can forget about the world outside. We'll never know, but I'd be interested in knowing how he would've felt about the difference twixt creating an attraction or show - something that in itself had production value and entertainment value - that would also promote something he owned, and slapping a movie ad on the monorail no matter how well done the "slapping" is.
the_princess
New Member
I don't think the issue is what their doing, its how they are doing it. Those pictures, by the way, made me laugh so hard! It reminds me of what Six Flags tried to do to Wild Waves before they sold us. (You buy a seasonal family-owned park, dont try and fix it up at all to what people think six flags should be, and then dump them a year later because they didn't make you enough money... Should have thought it through more... sorry if that sounds cold hearted...)
But the monerail is different. We learned in marketing that vehicles (buses, boats, monerails, trains, ect) are the best way to advertise. You have people on the vehicle who are exposed, even if just subconciously, to the ads as well as those on the outside who are exposed simply by seeing it run. You reach twice the market. It is done so much outside of Disney as well that most people I believe accept these ads as the norm. But on a ride you expect that, the ride. It's more of a shock and a suprise. The only ads you expect to see are if the ride is based off of a book, movie, or something else.
But the monerail is different. We learned in marketing that vehicles (buses, boats, monerails, trains, ect) are the best way to advertise. You have people on the vehicle who are exposed, even if just subconciously, to the ads as well as those on the outside who are exposed simply by seeing it run. You reach twice the market. It is done so much outside of Disney as well that most people I believe accept these ads as the norm. But on a ride you expect that, the ride. It's more of a shock and a suprise. The only ads you expect to see are if the ride is based off of a book, movie, or something else.
LoriMistress
Well-Known Member
Missymoe4
Well-Known Member
My father calls Six Flags Great America (the one in Gurnee, IL): "The Great American Disaster." Simply because it is a disaster compared to Disney.
Simply put: it's a waste of money for me to go and spend a day in Great America comparing it to Disney.
My mother reminds me of how fortunate I am to be able to go to Disney, and that there are many people who cannot afford WDW and therefore, Great America is their place. I totally understand this and I'm incredibly fortunate to have been able to visit WDW since I was born.
However I cannot get over the tackiness of Six Flags.
Simply put: it's a waste of money for me to go and spend a day in Great America comparing it to Disney.
My mother reminds me of how fortunate I am to be able to go to Disney, and that there are many people who cannot afford WDW and therefore, Great America is their place. I totally understand this and I'm incredibly fortunate to have been able to visit WDW since I was born.
However I cannot get over the tackiness of Six Flags.
SleepingMonk
Well-Known Member
Welcome foolish mortals....to the Viagra Haunted Mansion....raising "the dead" in more ways than one!
Dinoman96
Well-Known Member
Well you know guys, Disney and Six Flags appeal to different people. Disney is more family oriented (Universal is similar, but a little more thrills there), and Six Flags appeals to the Thrill Junkies, like the folks at Theme Park Review and my coaster fan friend who lives across the street. Most Thrill riders care more about how fast and well...thrilling a coaster is, rather than the theme/story, unlike Disney/Universal fans.
rodserling27
Well-Known Member
Welcome foolish mortals....to the Viagra Haunted Mansion....raising "the dead" in more ways than one!
Oh my GOODNESS, I nearly died when I read this!!!! That's hilarious!!!
SAV
Well-Known Member
I think the "point" is that they are doing it on more than one coaster. One is the Demon and the other is the Whizzer. Demon is a looping, cork screw coaster and the whizzer is a very tame, BTMRR type of coaster. Appealing to different riders. I don't get the "Nightmare" reference though.
gettingsmaller
New Member
If you ask me which I'd rather go to, there is no question that I would choose WDW.
HOWEVER, in their defense, I think a big part of Six Flags' problem is its seasonality. There may be some (like maybe the ones in Mexico and California?) that can stay open all year, but--mostly--I think they are open for the Summer (with a few other times thrown in here and there). This leads to a lot of complications for SF--'missed' revenue when closed; continued weathering of rides, buildings, etc., even when shut down; the inability to attract and retain quality, long-term employees (including performers); the impracticality of being able to include any live animals; no budget for A-level upkeep and improvements. Put yourself in SF management's position and come up with a solution... See how much YOU can fix when you have little or no $$ to do it with.
Disney entertainment is ingrained in our culture. They have a great situation (Walt was no dummy) where the parks feed off of the media division and the media division feeds off of the parks. As much as I hate to use this buzzword, this is the definition of 'synergy'. For Disney media and parks, 2+2 = 5. Add that to the fact that the location of WDW allows for year-round profit gathering, and it's not hard to see why Disney has a clear quality advantage over SF.
Now, there ARE things that SF does that make you scratch your head (some tacky advertising, e.g.), but I think so much of that can be traced back to their financial situation--they will take the $$ any way they can get it...
HOWEVER, in their defense, I think a big part of Six Flags' problem is its seasonality. There may be some (like maybe the ones in Mexico and California?) that can stay open all year, but--mostly--I think they are open for the Summer (with a few other times thrown in here and there). This leads to a lot of complications for SF--'missed' revenue when closed; continued weathering of rides, buildings, etc., even when shut down; the inability to attract and retain quality, long-term employees (including performers); the impracticality of being able to include any live animals; no budget for A-level upkeep and improvements. Put yourself in SF management's position and come up with a solution... See how much YOU can fix when you have little or no $$ to do it with.
Disney entertainment is ingrained in our culture. They have a great situation (Walt was no dummy) where the parks feed off of the media division and the media division feeds off of the parks. As much as I hate to use this buzzword, this is the definition of 'synergy'. For Disney media and parks, 2+2 = 5. Add that to the fact that the location of WDW allows for year-round profit gathering, and it's not hard to see why Disney has a clear quality advantage over SF.
Now, there ARE things that SF does that make you scratch your head (some tacky advertising, e.g.), but I think so much of that can be traced back to their financial situation--they will take the $$ any way they can get it...
Kath-n-me
New Member
Speaking of nightmares & tacky, how would you like to meet this guy at the park? Mr. Six from Six Flags advertisements.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PDIBTS_xDQ&feature=related
Kinda creepy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PDIBTS_xDQ&feature=related
Kinda creepy!
Horizons1
Well-Known Member
Yo ho, Johnny Depp, where's all the rum?
the_princess
New Member
The seasonal aspect may have something to do with it. But as for animals you can have season parks with certain animals. Wild Waves had horses, goats things like that and it was seasonal. But I'm also very very partial having worked for six flags for the short time they owned the park. :brick:
The changes and things they wanted to do just didn't make sense to some of our employees and them canceling events that normally brought in a large profit was silly. I understand they are trying to save money and make what profit they can but they either need to spend money and update or not raise prices while keeping things the same. Using us as an example they combined our two parks (one water one dry but they were connected), and raised the price from about $20 for both to almost $40 to get in without updating anything. So we still had mostly carnival rides and a couple water slides and a wave pool and once you added in parking we were paying about $50, not including food. I know Disney is expensive but there is still a quality there that they lacked when they took over and they had no interest in changing. I dont know if its the same everywhere but I know if you dont operate a ride in 90 days you HAVE to be recertified and if you have not been on them in 30 days you are supposed to have a review. So that is additional costs too for seasonal work, so I understand the need for money but there are better ways. Put up a sign or signs around the attraction outside of que lines, but not on the ride vehicles. Besides, I had a good group of kids in my ride group and they understood what I expected. They didn't have to be perfect but I did layout my own standards based on the wonderful CMs I'd met and we hardly ever had an issue in my group with guests. But you could tell the difference between us and some of the others, mainly because I didn't let them treat the park like everyone else did which was, as was said earlier, the "WalMart Theme Park". And those ads on rides don't help at all.
Sorry about my little rant about six flags... I met some of the coperate management when they came to our park and they just didn't strike me as what I would expect and want. Perhaps I have high standards, that may be the case. A couple others and I no longer work for that park, though we did the whole time six flags owned it, but while under their management we made suggestions for improvments but it never was, at least not to us, an enviorment that we could cause a change. But I have also been very spoiled and been to WDW plenty of times by the time I started working there. You also have the feeling that the purpose of these rides is to make money and so I just need to get them on and get them off. Basically that is what we were told. Someone had issues or a question first and foremost you got people on the ride and got them going and watched them to make sure they didn't hurt themselves. That was your number one job. And after spending all day looking at a ride vehicle that says Skittles you want Skittles and you want them now. Or you never want to see them again depending on your day... :ROFLOL:I know the park here is mostly high schoolers working over the summer and they bring their drama into work and it effects the guest's experience. Maybe other places where that isnt so arnt as bad or with a family atmosphere arnt as bad. That could also be used to justify the ads on the attractions.
Now I do want to make sure I add this: There are some AMAZING six flags employees! Bob Bennet is one of them. He is an amazing manager and a wonderful ride operator when he has to be on a ride. He balances the need to make money and bring in a profit with the needs of the guests and the employees. He was transfered out of our park. I also want to note I have met some poor CM and I have walked back to main street with names and placed complaints because I was so upset at what they had done or said. (Most of these cases deal with my father's disability/handicap pass and lack of respect or assistance on their part). There is good and bad everywhere. I just notice a lot of adults work at Disney as well, you have good long term employees that you know will come back. If you dont have that and have to spend the money to retrain you have to find it other ways, as much as some of us may disagree with those methods.
Ok sorry again. Getting off my little soap box... :zipit:
The changes and things they wanted to do just didn't make sense to some of our employees and them canceling events that normally brought in a large profit was silly. I understand they are trying to save money and make what profit they can but they either need to spend money and update or not raise prices while keeping things the same. Using us as an example they combined our two parks (one water one dry but they were connected), and raised the price from about $20 for both to almost $40 to get in without updating anything. So we still had mostly carnival rides and a couple water slides and a wave pool and once you added in parking we were paying about $50, not including food. I know Disney is expensive but there is still a quality there that they lacked when they took over and they had no interest in changing. I dont know if its the same everywhere but I know if you dont operate a ride in 90 days you HAVE to be recertified and if you have not been on them in 30 days you are supposed to have a review. So that is additional costs too for seasonal work, so I understand the need for money but there are better ways. Put up a sign or signs around the attraction outside of que lines, but not on the ride vehicles. Besides, I had a good group of kids in my ride group and they understood what I expected. They didn't have to be perfect but I did layout my own standards based on the wonderful CMs I'd met and we hardly ever had an issue in my group with guests. But you could tell the difference between us and some of the others, mainly because I didn't let them treat the park like everyone else did which was, as was said earlier, the "WalMart Theme Park". And those ads on rides don't help at all.
Sorry about my little rant about six flags... I met some of the coperate management when they came to our park and they just didn't strike me as what I would expect and want. Perhaps I have high standards, that may be the case. A couple others and I no longer work for that park, though we did the whole time six flags owned it, but while under their management we made suggestions for improvments but it never was, at least not to us, an enviorment that we could cause a change. But I have also been very spoiled and been to WDW plenty of times by the time I started working there. You also have the feeling that the purpose of these rides is to make money and so I just need to get them on and get them off. Basically that is what we were told. Someone had issues or a question first and foremost you got people on the ride and got them going and watched them to make sure they didn't hurt themselves. That was your number one job. And after spending all day looking at a ride vehicle that says Skittles you want Skittles and you want them now. Or you never want to see them again depending on your day... :ROFLOL:I know the park here is mostly high schoolers working over the summer and they bring their drama into work and it effects the guest's experience. Maybe other places where that isnt so arnt as bad or with a family atmosphere arnt as bad. That could also be used to justify the ads on the attractions.
Now I do want to make sure I add this: There are some AMAZING six flags employees! Bob Bennet is one of them. He is an amazing manager and a wonderful ride operator when he has to be on a ride. He balances the need to make money and bring in a profit with the needs of the guests and the employees. He was transfered out of our park. I also want to note I have met some poor CM and I have walked back to main street with names and placed complaints because I was so upset at what they had done or said. (Most of these cases deal with my father's disability/handicap pass and lack of respect or assistance on their part). There is good and bad everywhere. I just notice a lot of adults work at Disney as well, you have good long term employees that you know will come back. If you dont have that and have to spend the money to retrain you have to find it other ways, as much as some of us may disagree with those methods.
Ok sorry again. Getting off my little soap box... :zipit:
the-reason14
Well-Known Member
It's been awhile since I've been to a six flags park. We had 3 here in Texas that my family used to go to: Astroworld-the worse, Over Texas-probably the best, and Fiesta Texas- also could be argued as the best. And yes, it is hard to find many parks close to disney standards as far as theming, story, and service is concerned, but six flags wasn't extremely bad lol. I do remember the tvs in the que, though the lines were never long enough to warrant a look.
Overall I think the advertisement they're doing is different than what disney is doing with the tronorail. It's a disney movie and it looks good gliding through epcot as opposed to six flags and their advertisement.
Overall I think the advertisement they're doing is different than what disney is doing with the tronorail. It's a disney movie and it looks good gliding through epcot as opposed to six flags and their advertisement.