Six Flags and Cedar Fair to Merge (Nov 2023)

[Jrb1979]

I'm shocked how out of touch with the industry the people at the top were to think Six Flags had the brand recognition to warrant keeping that name. More than a few people immediately swore off the big Cedar Fair parks because of what . And once they started really nickel and diming and understaffing, a lot more took it as a confirmation of what they feared. I fully admit I was COMPLETELY wrong on where things went. I thought Six Flags legacy parks would be bumped up instead of CF dropping down. But man, our trip a few weeks ago was ROUGH. Something like 20 attractions (including 2 of the 3 kids areas and like 4-6 coasters) were announced as not opening for the day with a sign at entry. Strictly so they didn't have to pay to staff them.

To be fair once fall hits it's always like that at Cedar Point in terms of rides not opening. Cedar Point due to location has always struggled with staffing at this time of year.

The plan was to get the Six Flags parks up to Cedar Fair standards. I don't think they are that out of touch. What happened is when attendance was down and the loss of revenue they panicked.

 

[LSLS]

To be fair once fall hits it's always like that at Cedar Point in terms of rides not opening. Cedar Point due to location has always struggled with staffing at this time of year.

The plan was to get the Six Flags parks up to Cedar Fair standards. I don't think they are that out of touch. What happened is when attendance was down and the loss of revenue they panicked.

Nah, it's never that bad, we go every year. For reference, same weekend last year had like 5 attractions not opened the entire day (all kiddy areas open). And the weekend of the 18th is even more stark.

Getting Six Flags up isn't what was out of touch, what was out of touch is the idea that Six Flags had this great brand recognition you would want on all the Cedar Fair parks. The reality is the opposite was true. And honestly, there should be panic, but they are responding incorrectly. Making everything Add Ons isn't bringing people back. Inflating lines by closing a bunch of stuff isn't bringing people back. I've said it before, but 4-5 years ago, I thought Cedar Point was better maintained than Disney. Operations were faster and friendlier, park was cleaner, they were really adding on to the family friendly and story ideas. Then they nose-dived and just figured nobody would notice.

 

[Baloo124]

This Kelce news begs the question...

If the Chiefs happen to win the Super Bowl in February, would this be the first time in history that an owner of Six Flags parades down MSUSA at a Disney park?

 

[MisterPenguin]

This Kelce news begs the question...

If the Chiefs happen to win the Super Bowl in February, would this be the first time in history that an owner of Six Flags parades down MSUSA at a Disney park?

Travis Kelce, you just won the Super Bowl. What are going to do?

I'm going to Six Flags Great Adventure in Central New Jersey!! Woooo!!!

 

[LSLS]

For the quarter ended September 2025, Six Flags Entertainment Corporation (FUN) reported revenue of $1.32 billion, down 2.3% over the same period last year. EPS came in at $3.28, compared to $1.58 in the year-ago quarter.

 

[Baloo124]

Six Flags confirms 'priority' to close or sell more parks after America shutdown

Six Flags has confirmed a 'priority' to close or sell more parks following the closure of Six Flags America after more than 50 years in operation.

ew.com

 

[Jrb1979]

Six Flags confirms 'priority' to close or sell more parks after America shutdown

Six Flags has confirmed a 'priority' to close or sell more parks following the closure of Six Flags America after more than 50 years in operation.

ew.com

Makes total sense. The reason Six Flags as a company has lost money and lost attendance is due to the underperforming parks. A handful of parks make up 70% of revenue and attendance.

Parks like Knotts, Cedar Point, Magic Mountain, Kings Island and the Texas parks make up for a lot of bad parks.

 

[Baloo124]

Makes total sense. The reason Six Flags as a company has lost money and lost attendance is due to the underperforming parks. A handful of parks make up 70% of revenue and attendance.

Parks like Knotts, Cedar Point, Magic Mountain, Kings Island and the Texas parks make up for a lot of bad parks.

I'm wondering where my old childhood park, Six Flags Over Georgia, stands among these considerations, especially with news dropping earlier this year of cancelling the Christmastime event which usually starts around now.

Time will tell. There will always be the fond memories growing up visiting there during the 80's and 90's.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm wondering where my old childhood park, Six Flags Over Georgia, stands among these considerations, especially with news dropping earlier this year of cancelling the Christmastime event which usually starts around now.

Time will tell. There will always be the fond memories growing up visiting there during the 80's and 90's.

That park is one of the safe ones. They view Six Flags over Georgia as a park with potential due to location. They have started working on it. They have upgraded the food quality a lot and have added a new coaster last year. With the Chaperone policy where kids under 16 have to have an adult with them, it's helped.

The issue now with all of these parks is it hasn't done much to improve attendance.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Six Flags does not yet wholly own Six Flags Over Georgia. They’re in the process of spending over $300 million to acquire full ownership of the park. I can’t imagine that land, which is prone to flooding, being worth nearly half a billion dollars they’d have to be offered to make a closure and sale worth while.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Makes total sense. The reason Six Flags as a company has lost money and lost attendance is due to the underperforming parks. A handful of parks make up 70% of revenue and attendance.

Parks like Knotts, Cedar Point, Magic Mountain, Kings Island and the Texas parks make up for a lot of bad parks.

I'm an accountant and am interested for when their annual filing comes out in three months because it gives a lot of information that the quarterly filing does not.

The interesting thing about their financial statements is that there is a huge loss on there from something called impairment of Intangibles. When you acquire another company, you also value their trademarks, customer relationships, and technology. Those aren't assets you can touch physically (like, they're not a rollercoaster) but they're still considered to have value. Companies test them yearly to make sure they're still holding their value.

Well, looking at the income statement, it looks like they took a $1.5 million loss on those this quarter. Which goes into their operating income. So they're taking this hit from this non-cash expense, but it's important because they're telling us that they're estimating that they wouldn't make as much in the future.

I have a lot of questions around that charge. Mostly, uh, how? Did someone screw up with estimates about future cash flows? What happened there that caused that huge charge?

I also am concerned that they have a cash issue, but I need to look in more detail to confirm that. Ugly, ugly financials.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

I'm an accountant and am interested for when their annual filing comes out in three months because it gives a lot of information that the quarterly filing does not.

The interesting thing about their financial statements is that there is a huge loss on there from something called impairment of Intangibles. When you acquire another company, you also value their trademarks, customer relationships, and technology. Those aren't assets you can touch physically (like, they're not a rollercoaster) but they're still considered to have value. Companies test them yearly to make sure they're still holding their value.

Well, looking at the income statement, it looks like they took a $1.5 million loss on those this quarter. Which goes into their operating income. So they're taking this hit from this non-cash expense, but it's important because they're telling us that they're estimating that they wouldn't make as much in the future.

I have a lot of questions around that charge. Mostly, uh, how? Did someone screw up with estimates about future cash flows? What happened there that caused that huge charge?

I also am concerned that they have a cash issue, but I need to look in more detail to confirm that. Ugly, ugly financials.

Also accountants when we read filings like this that we're not involved in...

 

[Jrb1979]

Also accountants when we read filings like this that we're not involved in...

I agree it doesn't look good at all. From the information they have put out during investors calls, their biggest issue is that less than half of their parks a profitable. The former Six Flags parks are in rough shape from years of bad management. Even the little upgrades they have done to parks like Over Georgia and New England have done little to change their reputation.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

I agree it doesn't look good at all. From the information they have put out during investors calls, their biggest issue is that less than half of their parks a profitable. The former Six Flags parks are in rough shape from years of bad management. Even the little upgrades they have done to parks like Over Georgia and New England have done little to change their reputation.

I don't think their management has gotten any better tbh, but time will tell.

This is why I want to see their annual filing when released; it frequently includes breakdowns about where more revenue comes from that they don't include in a quarterly statement.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don't think their management has gotten any better tbh, but time will tell.

This is why I want to see their annual filing when released; it frequently includes breakdowns about where more revenue comes from that they don't include in a quarterly statement.

Back in May they put out a plan for the future with investments, upgrades to food and merch. A plan to raise guest spending. Make their parks like Knotts and less like Magic Mountain.

IMO when Q2 had low attendance and a loss in revenue they changed directions and went back to the Six Flags way of running the parks with cheap passes.

 

[LSLS]

I agree it doesn't look good at all. From the information they have put out during investors calls, their biggest issue is that less than half of their parks a profitable. The former Six Flags parks are in rough shape from years of bad management. Even the little upgrades they have done to parks like Over Georgia and New England have done little to change their reputation.

And the real issue now is, whether perceived or true (probably both), many believe the bad management hasn't been fixed in the bad parks, but rather bad management has been added to the good ones. Cedar Fair park-goers saw the name Six Flags on everything and assumed bad management, cuts, and destructions of the parks. The management at each park was slashed, ride operations slashed, and previously free things were now being charged. And Zimmerman gets millions for it.

 

[Jrb1979]

And the real issue now is, whether perceived or true (probably both), many believe the bad management hasn't been fixed in the bad parks, but rather bad management has been added to the good ones. Cedar Fair park-goers saw the name Six Flags on everything and assumed bad management, cuts, and destructions of the parks. The management at each park was slashed, ride operations slashed, and previously free things were now being charged. And Zimmerman gets millions for it.

Yes the Cedar Fair parks did have lots of cuts this season. A lot that happened once they saw the numbers from the Q2 when attendance and the loss in revenue. At that point they were full on cost cutting mode.

While I don't agree with them charging for mazes, I do understand why they did it. From all the investors calls, the thing they bring up the most is guest spending and wanting to increase that. It's likely why they went to charging for mazes.

The problem Cedar Fair and Six Flags always have had is passholders don't spend money in the parks compared to Busch Gardens, Hershey and Dollywood.

When those parks do food events, passholders will $40-$50 for a food pass. When ever the Cedar Fair parks tried it, passholders never bought them. When Cedar Point has the Frontier Festival, lines were non existent for the food booths. Passholders stick to their dining plan

 

[LSLS]

Yes the Cedar Fair parks did have lots of cuts this season. A lot that happened once they saw the numbers from the Q2 when attendance and the loss in revenue. At that point they were full on cost cutting mode.

While I don't agree with them charging for mazes, I do understand why they did it. From all the investors calls, the thing they bring up the most is guest spending and wanting to increase that. It's likely why they went to charging for mazes.

The problem Cedar Fair and Six Flags always have had is passholders don't spend money in the parks compared to Busch Gardens, Hershey and Dollywood.

When those parks do food events, passholders will $40-$50 for a food pass. When ever the Cedar Fair parks tried it, passholders never bought them. When Cedar Point has the Frontier Festival, lines were non existent for the food booths. Passholders stick to their dining plan

The cuts started well before the Q2 call at Cedar Point, they were just WAY worse after (it was crazy how much was not operating in October). From what I have heard, the maze charging was again something that was done at Six Flags parks and not Cedar Fair parks previously, so it goes back to that idea that Cedar Fairs is becoming Six Flags, not the other way around which is really off putting to Cedar Fair customers. I'd agree passholders don't spend the same way, but that's somewhat on them as well. Prices for things (food ala cart, drinks, etc.) are more expensive than Disney, and the quality has just dropped way off. It's only a few bucks, but perception is everything. Seeing a beer for $11 feels a lot different for people than seeing one for $15.

 

[Jrb1979]

The cuts started well before the Q2 call at Cedar Point, they were just WAY worse after (it was crazy how much was not operating in October). From what I have heard, the maze charging was again something that was done at Six Flags parks and not Cedar Fair parks previously, so it goes back to that idea that Cedar Fairs is becoming Six Flags, not the other way around which is really off putting to Cedar Fair customers. I'd agree passholders don't spend the same way, but that's somewhat on them as well. Prices for things (food ala cart, drinks, etc.) are more expensive than Disney, and the quality has just dropped way off. It's only a few bucks, but perception is everything. Seeing a beer for $11 feels a lot different for people than seeing one for $15.

The food prices are that high likely due to the dining plan. Yes beer is expensive but it's likely that high to curb drunkenness in the park. I don't agree with how they are going about pricing and upcharges. I do understand why they are doing it. Guest spending is where parks make their money.

For guest spending on food, I'm talking about food festivals like they once had. Most parks once had Beer and BBQ type food festival. Those type of events bring up guest spending without raising everything else so high.
I remember prior to COVID going to Cedar Point for their Beer and BBQ festival. For $40, you got 6 food samples and 4 beer samples. Similar to what Hershey and Dollywood offer for their food events now. Unfortunately Cedar Fair and Six Flags guests had no interest.

While I don't agree with how they are going about it, I understand why. They have tried doing it in away that guests don't feel nickel and dimed to death with food festivals. Guests have shown no interest in them, so they have to find other ways to raise guest spending

 

[Baloo124]

Six Flags does not yet wholly own Six Flags Over Georgia. They’re in the process of spending over $300 million to acquire full ownership of the park. I can’t imagine that land, which is prone to flooding, being worth nearly half a billion dollars they’d have to be offered to make a closure and sale worth while.

SFOG really needs a game-changer of a new coaster soon after Fun Spot Atlanta stole the crown for best coaster in GA several years ago.


Not saying SFOG has a bad collection by any means. It has arguably the best Goliath despite lacking in height compared to others of the same name around the U.S.

But the park needs a game-changer to tell Fun Spot who still owns GA in this category.