Sharp Dues Increases for 2019 - 7.6% on average

[GoofGoof]

I’d rather check in at the Contrmporary and walk.

I didn’t have a problem with it either, but I assume some members did or Disney just decided it was too much for the front desk at CR to handle. Either way it changed and the dues went up a lot that year.

 

[correcaminos]

I’d rather check in at the Contrmporary and walk.

That's the only issue with dues and plans. They have to come up with something for all. For every one who would rather walk (I checked in at Contemporary no issues prior) there are others who don't. Some of the dues go up when changes are made to pools and such. I'd rather not pay more but sometimes the benefits are okay with the increases.

That said BLT's dues are low enough that I don't think it mattered that much about the check in.

 

[GoofGoof]

That said BLT's dues are low enough that I don't think it mattered that much about the check in.

BLT was the bargain of DVC back then. They have been near the top in increases almost every year since and are now on par with most of the WDW resorts. It’s not just the front desk. There have been increases for other areas too. I think they underestimated housekeeping in the beginning since that’s one of the big increases. Transport is up a lot too, but they had to add the extra monorail security so that’s probably part of it. The taxes have also gone up but that’s out of Disney’s hands. Victims of their own success. Since labor is a major component of overall dues anything labor intensive (like adding a front desk) is going to drive dues up and not just in the year the new service is added.

 

[correcaminos]

BLT was the bargain of DVC back then. They have been near the top in increases almost every year since and are now on par with most of the WDW resorts. It’s not just the front desk. There have been increases for other areas too. I think they underestimated housekeeping in the beginning since that’s one of the big increases. Transport is up a lot too, but they had to add the extra monorail security so that’s probably part of it. The taxes have also gone up but that’s out of Disney’s hands. Victims of their own success. Since labor is a major component of overall dues anything labor intensive (like adding a front desk) is going to drive dues up and not just in the year the new service is added.

I could say the same about OKW. Changes to the main pool and costly refurbishment later and we are up there.

This is in part why I caution not to rely on cheap dues to remain that way.

 

[GoofGoof]

I could say the same about OKW. Changes to the main pool and costly refurbishment later and we are up there.

This is in part why I caution not to rely on cheap dues to remain that way.

What went up then, capital reserves?

 

[FCivish3]

. . . Some of the dues go up when changes are made to pools and such. I'd rather not pay more but sometimes the benefits are okay with the increases.

That said BLT's dues are low enough that I don't think it mattered that much about the check in.

Nobody likes to spend more money, and if it is unnecessary . . . .

However, like taxes, it isn't as painful if you can see the benefits that you receive from the taxes (dues).

 

[correcaminos]

What went up then, capital reserves?

For OKW? I don't want to be quoted on this as I do not have numbers in front of me and I am seriously lousy with numbers (dyslexic with a particular issue with numbers). I would have to go back and look - and that would be 15 years of looking LOL. I am pretty sure it was capital reserves, but I am okay with being corrected.

I just know that OKW had some increases in general during the last refurbishment that irked me. This year we went up on average at least for the first time in a while. Over the years I remember when they had to add more staff to the pool area, that was more of operational cost, but I don't know how much.

Nobody likes to spend more money, and if it is unnecessary . . . .

However, like taxes, it isn't as painful if you can see the benefits that you receive from the taxes (dues).

While I was initially annoyed this year, I realize a lot of ours will be due to increased pay for our DVC staff (or those who work for the DVC portion). I'm okay with that too.

 

[GoofGoof]

For OKW? I don't want to be quoted on this as I do not have numbers in front of me and I am seriously lousy with numbers (dyslexic with a particular issue with numbers). I would have to go back and look - and that would be 15 years of looking LOL. I am pretty sure it was capital reserves, but I am okay with being corrected.

I just know that OKW had some increases in general during the last refurbishment that irked me. This year we went up on average at least for the first time in a while. Over the years I remember when they had to add more staff to the pool area, that was more of operational cost, but I don't know how much.



While I was initially annoyed this year, I realize a lot of ours will be due to increased pay for our DVC staff (or those who work for the DVC portion). I'm okay with that too.

No need to go back and look, I was just curious how they handled something like that.

In theory the capital reserve amounts collected are set aside for future refurb projects. So if they plan to paint and resurface the pool every 10 years they collect for that in advance so the funds are ready to go in year 10. If something unplanned happens (like several of the huricanes in Hilton Head) that’s when they sometimes have an additional assessment. That in theory should be a one time charge (or maybe they spread it over several years). It makes sense to see a more permanent increase in dues at OKW if they also permanently added more staff to the pool area.

 

[correcaminos]

No need to go back and look, I was just curious how they handled something like that.

In theory the capital reserve amounts collected are set aside for future refurb projects. So if they plan to paint and resurface the pool every 10 years they collect for that in advance so the funds are ready to go in year 10. If something unplanned happens (like several of the huricanes in Hilton Head) that’s when they sometimes have an additional assessment. That in theory should be a one time charge (or maybe they spread it over several years). It makes sense to see a more permanent increase in dues at OKW if they also permanently added more staff to the pool area.

Yes, in theory it should have been capital reserves for the refurbishments. Same with the pool (not including staff increase). I can look up easily the percentage increase. In 2017 we had a 6.60% increase. I was quite annoyed with that one. I remember being told it was an increase in costs that were not accounted for with the upcoming refurbishment. We're still in the normal 3.5-4% over the course of the years total. However if we keep seeing 5% increases yearly, it will be more than anticipated.

I believe the additional assessments are over a period of time. I'd have to go look as we don't own at HHI or VB.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Well, I could sell my Boardwalk points right now for about a $12,000 profit. I bought 300 Boardwalk points about 5 years ago, and resale prices have gone up about 30% since then. Even with dues over the last few years and a 10% commission, I ended up staying about 25 nights and would be subsidized by DVC for staying to the tune of about $100 per night. Put another way, if I sold and paid the commission, and took into account the dues, I would clear about a $2,500 profit. We stayed about 25 nights, which means I would have gotten paid $100 per night to stay there.

I hate dues, I hate that they went up this much, and I don't like some of the changes at the Boardwalk. For example, we used to be able to rent a normal bike at the Community Hall for a ride all over, which they ended 2 years ago. I don't like the hard woody type floors, and sometimes we get a villa that is not perfectly located.

Nevertheless, a comparable room would run about $500 to $800 per night, and would have cost me about $12,000 to $20,000 over the same time period. That's how I crunch the numbers and weigh the benefits. I'll grumble and pay the dues, and pay more points per stay under the new point charts, but so be it. By the way, a few discounts on purchases help ease the pain as well.

I must ask however if there was ever a time that the resale value of points dropped significantly? Apparently I bought in at a very good time, with resale point values skyrocketing since. I assume that will end someday, but I do wonder if resale price drops have ever occurred.

 

[nickys]

I must ask however if there was ever a time that the resale value of points dropped significantly? Apparently I bought in at a very good time, with resale point values skyrocketing since. I assume that will end someday, but I do wonder if resale price drops have ever occurred.

During the last recession, resale prices dropped massively. I wasn’t a member then, I bought direct at BLT in 2010 as things were recovering but there were still good deals being offered.

I do know people who bought massive numbers of points back then for silly money, as members accepted anything for their points. Someone said as low as $10 a point at it’s worst.

 

[GoofGoof]

I must ask however if there was ever a time that the resale value of points dropped significantly? Apparently I bought in at a very good time, with resale point values skyrocketing since. I assume that will end someday, but I do wonder if resale price drops have ever occurred.

Yes, there was a pretty substantial drop right around the time of the “Great Recession”. Like everything else at the time, a not insignificant number of contracts sold direct by Disney went into foreclosure as people cut back and found themselves underwater on their DVC loans. People just walked away and let the points go into foreclosure rather than try to sell at a loss. In 2008/2009 when the banks stopped buying more risky and exotic mortgage products there were also concerns with Disney being able to sell the mortgages on direct sales to banks at all. Disney had to offer to step in and swap out mortgages on contracts in foreclosure for healthy loans to keep the banks happy but that kept Disney full of foreclosed resale points they had to resell direct. They had no appetite for exercising ROFR (especially on several of the less desirable resorts) so resale prices dropped as desperate owners took offers for less and less per point.

The dip was short lived and as direct prices skyrocketed the resale prices have risen substantially as well. In theory as we get closer to 2042 the resale prices for the original DVCs should drop as less and less years remain. I still think a lot of people look at DVC as more of a 10 year or less purchase (breakeven period) so prices could hold even into the early 2030s.

 

[correcaminos]

Yep for a time period about 10 years ago or so, we saw some resale prices in the $50/point range. Some reported lower but I never saw them personally. Not all mind you. I saw a lot in the $60-70 range. Depended on how desperate people were to sell I think. It was the lowest I had seen in general since I had bought in 2004 which I got mine for about $60/point at OKW. When I was looking it was just after a downturn in the economy with the dotcom bursts and travel slumped due to fears of terrorism. We saw a small uptick in the travel industry which pushed us to jump then. Glad we did because once it jumped it stayed high for a while. In 2008/2009 we had a toddler so buying luxury items like that was not a priority or we would've added on then.

A recession might drop the prices again, but I'm not sure we'll see the same level as about 10 years ago or so. That was a mess with other things financially at the time.