• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

Sharp Dues Increases for 2019 - 7.6% on average

alex0c

Member
Original Poster
#1
Big maintenance fee increases across the board, including over 9% jumps at AKV, BWV, Poly, HHI, and VB.

Apparently mostly due to increased employee compensation costs per new collective bargaining agreements. Minimum wage increases to $10 next month, $11 by December 2018 and $13 by September 2019. Wonder if this means we'll see sharp increases again next year?

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-p...29-sharp-increases-to-hit-owners-in-2019-dues
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
#2
Advertisement
Big maintenance fee increases across the board, including over 9% jumps at AKV, BWV, Poly, HHI, and VB.

Apparently mostly due to increased employee compensation costs per new collective bargaining agreements. Minimum wage increases to $10 next month, $11 by December 2018 and $13 by September 2019. Wonder if this means we'll see sharp increases again next year?

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-p...29-sharp-increases-to-hit-owners-in-2019-dues
There is a 50% increase total. 30% is done right away. The remaining will be done over 2 years. So I don't think it will be quite as sharp. Maybe 5% instead of 7% on average would be my bet.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
#4
LOL, when I heard about the salary increase the first thing I thought was about the dues. for some reason I can't open the link (I'm at work ;))
Did it say it was due to the compensation package.
I guess I'm a bit annoyed, the company just announced some 3rd quarter big profits so it seems like they are able to cover some of the wage increases.


lol, well if it's any consolation guys, I just got an email from my HOA, yep my HOA dues will also be increasing next year.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
#5
Everyone break out your whacky math calculators and see where this puts the fake break even point. Hooray for Disney!
Pfftt, been an owner for 15 years now almost, I broke even years ago even including add ons LOL

LOL, when I heard about the salary increase the first thing I thought was about the dues. for some reason I can't open the link (I'm at work ;))
Did it say it was due to the compensation package.
I guess I'm a bit annoyed, the company just announced some 3rd quarter big profits so it seems like they are able to cover some of the wage increases.


lol, well if it's any consolation guys, I just got an email from my HOA, yep my HOA dues will also be increasing next year.
I didn't do all the math, but going off of others, majority was due to housekeeping increase in salary. So not much we can be annoyed about. Park profits don't mean squat when it comes to what we pay for if you think about. We're only paying for DVC and the staff that supports that. Park profits don't help that out either.
 

nickys

Well-Known Member
#6
Pfftt, been an owner for 15 years now almost, I broke even years ago even including add ons LOL



I didn't do all the math, but going off of others, majority was due to housekeeping increase in salary. So not much we can be annoyed about. Park profits don't mean squat when it comes to what we pay for if you think about. We're only paying for DVC and the staff that supports that. Park profits don't help that out either.
We also pay towards transportation running costs.

So if you own at a monorail resort, you pay towards the monorail. Riviera dues will pay towards the gondolas, those with boat access pay towards that too.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
#7
I didn't do all the math, but going off of others, majority was due to housekeeping increase in salary. So not much we can be annoyed about. Park profits don't mean squat when it comes to what we pay for if you think about. We're only paying for DVC and the staff that supports that. Park profits don't help that out either.
This seems to be one of the biggest misconceptions about dues. In fact, if you follow the link in the original post you will see comments about how DVC is trying to make the dues the same at all resorts.

Just so it does not derail this thread further. Dues cover the actual costs of running the resort, plus a portion set aside for capital improvements. Capital improvements mean, if they estimate it costs $1M to pave the parking lots, and the pavement lasts 10 years, they will collect $100K each year to hold in reserve for that re-paving project.

Dues, by Florida law, cannot be more or less than the cost to run the resort. Profits (from DVC, or from the parks in general) cannot be used to offset the dues, and dues cannot be more than the cost to run the resort.

Now, DVC could do something wacky, like call housekeeping a perk, and then we would not pay for it in our dues, but that would have a hard time passing an audit.

So, if your dues are too high for your liking, you can complain that DVC is spending too much to run your resort. Maybe you want to get rid of those CMs that do the poolside activities, or perhaps scale back on the plantings, or the outside movies. You can complain that the resort is being run inefficiently and wasting money, but none of that money goes to DVC.

Of course there is the possibility that Disney as a whole could be using DVC as a dumping ground. Such as charging them 500 hours a week for pest control, when pest control only spends 100 hours a week on DVC properties. Thus shifting the cost from WDW to DVC members dues. However that is why there is an independent auditor - usually one of the big four.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
#8
This seems to be one of the biggest misconceptions about dues. In fact, if you follow the link in the original post you will see comments about how DVC is trying to make the dues the same at all resorts.

Just so it does not derail this thread further. Dues cover the actual costs of running the resort, plus a portion set aside for capital improvements. Capital improvements mean, if they estimate it costs $1M to pave the parking lots, and the pavement lasts 10 years, they will collect $100K each year to hold in reserve for that re-paving project.

Dues, by Florida law, cannot be more or less than the cost to run the resort. Profits (from DVC, or from the parks in general) cannot be used to offset the dues, and dues cannot be more than the cost to run the resort.

Now, DVC could do something wacky, like call housekeeping a perk, and then we would not pay for it in our dues, but that would have a hard time passing an audit.

So, if your dues are too high for your liking, you can complain that DVC is spending too much to run your resort. Maybe you want to get rid of those CMs that do the poolside activities, or perhaps scale back on the plantings, or the outside movies. You can complain that the resort is being run inefficiently and wasting money, but none of that money goes to DVC.

Of course there is the possibility that Disney as a whole could be using DVC as a dumping ground. Such as charging them 500 hours a week for pest control, when pest control only spends 100 hours a week on DVC properties. Thus shifting the cost from WDW to DVC members dues. However that is why there is an independent auditor - usually one of the big four.
The audits are exactly why I don't think this is all mush numbers as I've seen some try to claim. I mean as you said they could try it, but I think they might get called on it eventually.

Personally I like the activities so I'm good with the increases. I don't love it, but I get it.
We also pay towards transportation running costs.

So if you own at a monorail resort, you pay towards the monorail. Riviera dues will pay towards the gondolas, those with boat access pay towards that too.
Yes, I totally forgot until you said that some of the apparent increase was due to transportation costs rising. All resorts pay for buses so if they bring in more better for the environment and easier to get on HA wise, we help pay. Not entirely, but a portion at least. I know some others had taxes affect it positively (CCV) and negatively. Those we cannot really control.
 

pjkdog

Well-Known Member
#9
LOL, when I heard about the salary increase the first thing I thought was about the dues. for some reason I can't open the link (I'm at work ;))
Did it say it was due to the compensation package.
I guess I'm a bit annoyed, the company just announced some 3rd quarter big profits so it seems like they are able to cover some of the wage increases.


lol, well if it's any consolation guys, I just got an email from my HOA, yep my HOA dues will also be increasing next year.
I love when giants corporations blame raising the grunt workers pay to justify raising everything. Has Disney stopped paying their last 2 CEOs yet?
 
#10
This seems to be one of the biggest misconceptions about dues. In fact, if you follow the link in the original post you will see comments about how DVC is trying to make the dues the same at all resorts.

Just so it does not derail this thread further. Dues cover the actual costs of running the resort, plus a portion set aside for capital improvements. Capital improvements mean, if they estimate it costs $1M to pave the parking lots, and the pavement lasts 10 years, they will collect $100K each year to hold in reserve for that re-paving project.

Dues, by Florida law, cannot be more or less than the cost to run the resort. Profits (from DVC, or from the parks in general) cannot be used to offset the dues, and dues cannot be more than the cost to run the resort.

Now, DVC could do something wacky, like call housekeeping a perk, and then we would not pay for it in our dues, but that would have a hard time passing an audit.

So, if your dues are too high for your liking, you can complain that DVC is spending too much to run your resort. Maybe you want to get rid of those CMs that do the poolside activities, or perhaps scale back on the plantings, or the outside movies. You can complain that the resort is being run inefficiently and wasting money, but none of that money goes to DVC.

Of course there is the possibility that Disney as a whole could be using DVC as a dumping ground. Such as charging them 500 hours a week for pest control, when pest control only spends 100 hours a week on DVC properties. Thus shifting the cost from WDW to DVC members dues. However that is why there is an independent auditor - usually one of the big four.
You forgot about the DVCMC 'management fee' set at 12% of dues. Dues have largely increased due to salary increases. No more work is required for DVCMC. They may have some increased salary increases themselves (not sure) but their fee doesn't only represent salaries.
So for DVCMC, a dues increase is potentially a 'very nice little earner'. For example, the set 12% gives them next year an extra circa $800000 at SSR, for doing... Not much.
Nice work if you can get it.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
#11
You forgot about the DVCMC 'management fee' set at 12% of dues. Dues have largely increased due to salary increases. No more work is required for DVCMC. They may have some increased salary increases themselves (not sure) but their fee doesn't only represent salaries.
So for DVCMC, a dues increase is potentially a 'very nice little earner'. For example, the set 12% gives them next year an extra circa $800000 at SSR, for doing... Not much.
Nice work if you can get it.

Actually, if you went and hired a property management company to manage a property 12% is not out of line. It is on the high end, but usually that is based on 6% to 12% of rents, not dues. And rents are higher than dues (because rents include a profit). So 12% of dues for property management is not outrageous.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
#12
The audits are exactly why I don't think this is all mush numbers as I've seen some try to claim. I mean as you said they could try it, but I think they might get called on it eventually.
There are plenty of examples out there of companies that are playing fast and loose with Generally Accepted Accounting Principals and then getting caught. But most of those companies don't have the same customer base and image as Disney. When a bank gets slapped for its high pressure sales tactics (and number fudging) or a software company inflates its quarterly earnings by deciding that all months now have 35 days in them, people notice, and they get fined, but it does not impact their image all that much with their customer base. It's lying to make themselves look better, inflate profits, score a bonus for the C-Suite, and make the stock price go up, but it is not necessary money directly out of the customers pocket.

If DVC was to be cooking the books to be able to claim more in dues than just operating expenses - essentially taking money directly from it's customers, the impact would be tremendous. There would be class action lawsuits, individual lawsuits, a devaluing of the brand, a sell off of DVC contracts, and a host of other issues. I can't see them taking that risk.
 

GoofGoof

Well-Known Member
#16
From what I understand roughly about 75% of the controllable maintenance fees come from CM wages and benefits so it makes a lot of sense that a sharp increase in minimum wages (impacting housekeeping and maintenance workers especially) would drive up our fees. I’m not happy about paying more, but at least the workers are getting a bump. I’d be even less happy if it just went to profits and share buybacks.

LOL, when I heard about the salary increase the first thing I thought was about the dues. for some reason I can't open the link (I'm at work ;))
Did it say it was due to the compensation package.
I guess I'm a bit annoyed, the company just announced some 3rd quarter big profits so it seems like they are able to cover some of the wage increases.
I love when giants corporations blame raising the grunt workers pay to justify raising everything. Has Disney stopped paying their last 2 CEOs yet?
While overall profits for TWDC could be used to offset the wage increase for cash hotels or park tickets the DVC dues are based on actual costs (timeshare law, not Disney rule) so the owners will always absorb the increase. They could reduce their management fee but that’s about the extent of it. They could also offer us more perks like bigger park ticket or dining discounts, but Disney can’t really absorb the wage increase for us. It’s what we all signed up for. The great thing about DVC which isn’t true of all or really most timeshares is if you want out the resale market is as healthy as ever.
 
#17
. . . In fact, if you follow the link in the original post you will see comments about how DVC is trying to make the dues the same at all resorts.

. . . Dues cover the actual costs of running the resort, plus a portion set aside for capital improvements. . .

Dues, by Florida law, cannot be more or less than the cost to run the resort. Profits (from DVC, or from the parks in general) cannot be used to offset the dues, and dues cannot be more than the cost to run the resort. . .
Clearly, some resorts will cost more to run than other resorts. Stormalong Bay costs more than pools at any other resort. Maintaining animals at AKV is a cost that most resorts don't have. Etc. Etc. So, how can Disney possibly make the dues the same at all resorts. If they cost different amounts to run the resort, then Membership Dues must also be different at each resort.
 

nickys

Well-Known Member
#18
Clearly, some resorts will cost more to run than other resorts. Stormalong Bay costs more than pools at any other resort. Maintaining animals at AKV is a cost that most resorts don't have. Etc. Etc. So, how can Disney possibly make the dues the same at all resorts. If they cost different amounts to run the resort, then Membership Dues must also be different at each resort.
Agreed.

Monorail resorts pay a portion towards the maintenance of the monorails. Presumably SSR and OKW pay towards the boats too. Same will be true for the Riviera and the Skyliner. Those will be considered as part of the costs of running the resort.
 

GoofGoof

Well-Known Member
#19
Clearly, some resorts will cost more to run than other resorts. Stormalong Bay costs more than pools at any other resort. Maintaining animals at AKV is a cost that most resorts don't have. Etc. Etc. So, how can Disney possibly make the dues the same at all resorts. If they cost different amounts to run the resort, then Membership Dues must also be different at each resort.
Disney can’t just make the dues the same at every resort. The dues cover the actual costs. What they can do is adjust services offered at each resort to make the dues more equal. For example AKV is paying for animals but they aren’t paying for monorails or boats. If Disney added something that was a unique transport option to AK park from the resort they would need to reduce other offerings or raise dues. It’s possible to try to manage the dues to some extent but they can’t cut out necessary stuff like housekeeping or security or maintenance. There isn’t a lot to remove that isn’t necessary. Maybe some of the entertainment and activities offered. More likely they could add additional services to lower cost resorts to bring them up to the same ballpark as their higher due sister properties. This happened with BLT when they decided to add a dedicated front desk for check in. Before that BLT had way lower dues but you had to check in at CR and then walk over.
 
#20
Disney can’t just make the dues the same at every resort. The dues cover the actual costs. What they can do is adjust services offered at each resort to make the dues more equal. For example AKV is paying for animals but they aren’t paying for monorails or boats. If Disney added something that was a unique transport option to AK park from the resort they would need to reduce other offerings or raise dues. It’s possible to try to manage the dues to some extent but they can’t cut out necessary stuff like housekeeping or security or maintenance. There isn’t a lot to remove that isn’t necessary. Maybe some of the entertainment and activities offered. More likely they could add additional services to lower cost resorts to bring them up to the same ballpark as their higher due sister properties. This happened with BLT when they decided to add a dedicated front desk for check in. Before that BLT had way lower dues but you had to check in at CR and then walk over.
I’d rather check in at the Contrmporary and walk.
 
Top Bottom