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Save Spaceship Earth
- Thread starter soccer9miahamm
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Dr Albert Falls
New Member
Why is it so bad if the "Time Racer" vehicles go outside the building?
Nothing has suggested it's going to be a high speed loop like "Test Track" or a drop like "Journey to the Centre of the Earth".
Perhaps moving the cars outside the building will allow the vehicles to GRADUALLY DESCEND, rather than endure the tight "downward spiral" that now exists. By doing this, Imagineers will be freeing up space inside the sphere to add additional show scenes.
Also, assuming the new vehicles are going to be significantly larger, they would probably not be able to manuever the tight "downward spiral" anyway--- at least not without making it a high-speed roller coaster drop ride (which clearly nobody wants).
Too many people on these boards whine without ever thinking about the basic engineering involved in these attractions.
Nothing has suggested it's going to be a high speed loop like "Test Track" or a drop like "Journey to the Centre of the Earth".
Perhaps moving the cars outside the building will allow the vehicles to GRADUALLY DESCEND, rather than endure the tight "downward spiral" that now exists. By doing this, Imagineers will be freeing up space inside the sphere to add additional show scenes.
Also, assuming the new vehicles are going to be significantly larger, they would probably not be able to manuever the tight "downward spiral" anyway--- at least not without making it a high-speed roller coaster drop ride (which clearly nobody wants).
Too many people on these boards whine without ever thinking about the basic engineering involved in these attractions.
WDWspider
New Member
I agree, going out of the main sphere would be awful.
They could make ride vehicles that can rotate in different directions if the slope remains steep, that way you will seem to be sitting upright even though the vehicle will be ascending at a steep angle. I'm sure this is very possible.
They could make ride vehicles that can rotate in different directions if the slope remains steep, that way you will seem to be sitting upright even though the vehicle will be ascending at a steep angle. I'm sure this is very possible.
General Grizz
New Member
I completely agree. So far as it stays dramatic, informative, inspirational, musical, and brilliant. I am all for updates in technology, especially concerning the vehicle.
But, like I said, to see a screen be the jist of it, no matter how advanced it is, would be a shame. Disney needs to understand that they're dealing with the last of an endagered species of attraction.
Sets, AAs, you name it. The update in 1994 was perfect. But if they could update the Animatronics, preferably keep the same amount, add sets right there, and NOT center it on screens (i.e. Mission Space), then I will be more proud of the Walt Disney Company than I *EVER* have been in years.
WDWspider
New Member
Originally posted by Lee
The current plans definately call for the vehicles to leave the sphere.
Time Racers will not leave the post show.
I thought you meant the screens would show outside elements.
Like an extension of the sphere (new structures added onto the sphere)? or Something like the track on Test Track (being a track physically outside)?
Will you pop out the top before riding the Mickey wand arm back down to the ground? :lol:
Great info Lee, like always. Is there any indication that they will retain AAs in the attraction?
As for all the keep SSE people.... you can't ignore that much of the public avoids Epcot like the plague. Many of you weren't old enough to remember Epcot when it opened, but even back then with all the AA rides most of the public did not like it and found it very outdated very quickly. The biggest complaint from folks was "where is the future?" and many found the widespread use of AAs repetitive. Furthermore, with the exception of Horizons and The Land, none of the attractions had anything to do with the future, other than a few moments at their conclusion. Case in point, SSE has had many different endings none of them as comparable to what precedes the ride. Some portions of the park have never even gelled. Communicore a/k/a Innoventions has had various changes over the year none of which have been quite satisfying. Living Seas is and always has been a failure, with or without the sea cabs. UoE has always been a bore, with or without Ellen.
That being said, I have to say my family and I did love Epcot and continue to do so. I have spent 3 New Years' Eves there, and have visited this park more often in the past 20 years than MK. I miss Horizons, the old JiY and even WoM and I'll even be sad to see WoL leave ( I actually enjoy Body Wars). However, I'm glad we have Test Track and MS and I look forward to Soarin' whereever they place it. But FW needs some focusing and fine tuning. Yes the new JIY was terribly misguided and cheap. And if SSE changes from it's current incarnatin, I too will miss SSE. But as beautiful as most of the ride is, it really isn't the classic ride like Pirates and HM, and I believe most of the public would agree with me. Regardless of what Consumer Reports claims most of the public avoids this park especially families with children. Lucily my parents had more faith in my brothers' and I and our intellectual abilities.
As for those of you who have written, quite beautifully actually, about Epcot's theme and message....I agree with you. I hope Epcot still retains that inspirational quality and it seems to be eroding a bit. But MS gives me hope as does Soarin'.
As for all the keep SSE people.... you can't ignore that much of the public avoids Epcot like the plague. Many of you weren't old enough to remember Epcot when it opened, but even back then with all the AA rides most of the public did not like it and found it very outdated very quickly. The biggest complaint from folks was "where is the future?" and many found the widespread use of AAs repetitive. Furthermore, with the exception of Horizons and The Land, none of the attractions had anything to do with the future, other than a few moments at their conclusion. Case in point, SSE has had many different endings none of them as comparable to what precedes the ride. Some portions of the park have never even gelled. Communicore a/k/a Innoventions has had various changes over the year none of which have been quite satisfying. Living Seas is and always has been a failure, with or without the sea cabs. UoE has always been a bore, with or without Ellen.
That being said, I have to say my family and I did love Epcot and continue to do so. I have spent 3 New Years' Eves there, and have visited this park more often in the past 20 years than MK. I miss Horizons, the old JiY and even WoM and I'll even be sad to see WoL leave ( I actually enjoy Body Wars). However, I'm glad we have Test Track and MS and I look forward to Soarin' whereever they place it. But FW needs some focusing and fine tuning. Yes the new JIY was terribly misguided and cheap. And if SSE changes from it's current incarnatin, I too will miss SSE. But as beautiful as most of the ride is, it really isn't the classic ride like Pirates and HM, and I believe most of the public would agree with me. Regardless of what Consumer Reports claims most of the public avoids this park especially families with children. Lucily my parents had more faith in my brothers' and I and our intellectual abilities.
As for those of you who have written, quite beautifully actually, about Epcot's theme and message....I agree with you. I hope Epcot still retains that inspirational quality and it seems to be eroding a bit. But MS gives me hope as does Soarin'.
General Grizz
New Member
What Test Track (does this actually deal with the future? ) and Mission Space BOTH lack is something that its predecessor had - a great history project.
Future World is about the future. No doubt. But it is also a celebration about humanity. Spaceship Earth is now a more exclusive look at the celebration of the human and progress, and it continues to take guests into the future with a quality unmatched in many of the recent attractions.
Don't forget Illuminations: RoE is also a celebration of time...dealing with the past (Chaos, etc. scenes), and leaving a promise. If you don't know where you came from, you won't know where you're going. Progress can not be determined unless we know about our past. Horizons, World of Motion, and Spaceship Earth ("the big three"), along with the Universe of Energy, go back to the times of early history to show what progress is and how we can go forward from what we now know about then.
Does that make sense? Now explain it to me. :lol:
) and Mission Space BOTH lack is something that its predecessor had - a great history project.Future World is about the future. No doubt. But it is also a celebration about humanity. Spaceship Earth is now a more exclusive look at the celebration of the human and progress, and it continues to take guests into the future with a quality unmatched in many of the recent attractions.
Don't forget Illuminations: RoE is also a celebration of time...dealing with the past (Chaos, etc. scenes), and leaving a promise. If you don't know where you came from, you won't know where you're going. Progress can not be determined unless we know about our past. Horizons, World of Motion, and Spaceship Earth ("the big three"), along with the Universe of Energy, go back to the times of early history to show what progress is and how we can go forward from what we now know about then.
Does that make sense? Now explain it to me.
:lol:Originally posted by grizzlyhall
What Test Track (does this actually deal with the future?
Future World is about the future. No doubt. But it is also a celebration about humanity. Spaceship Earth is now a more exclusive look at the celebration of the human and progress, and it continues to take guests into the future with a quality unmatched in many of the recent attractions.
Don't forget Illuminations: RoE is also a celebration of time...dealing with the past (Chaos, etc. scenes), and leaving a promise. If you don't know where you came from, you won't know where you're going. Progress can not be determined unless we know about our past. Horizons, World of Motion, and Spaceship Earth ("the big three"), along with the Universe of Energy, go back to the times of early history to show what progress is and how we can go forward from what we now know about then.
Does that make sense? Now explain it to me.
Beatifully argued. But again Epcot can not survive on some overly optimistic history lesson. And again you proved not only my point, but most of the public's point, the past is still not the future. Yes I understand the purpose of learning history, but as set forth by Epcot it still has nothing to do with the future. And no offense grizzly, I don't mean to be personal, but I think your view of Epcot is a bit too rosy and broad. A celebration of humanity? Have you been on UoE? Body Wars? HISTA? Food Rocks?
Your quote "Progress can not be determined unless we know about our past" is an excellent point and motto, something I wholehearted agree with and a motto i follow in my own life....but again this has nothing to do with a "future world"...key emphasis on the word FUTURE and WORLD and the questions that were asked back in 1983 and is still being asked today.."can you build a theme park on this motto"..the fact that Epcot struggles with attendance is a clear indication that for most of the public... it doesn't. I think these FW attractions were noble in theme and scope, but it isn't what most of the public wanted from their vacation. Frankly, some of this stuff was be a bit didactic.
Just for the record, I don't believe Test Track is futuristic. But at least MS and Test Track employ cutting edge technology and deal with some form of modern science and engineering.
One last note, FW should have always been titled "Discoveryland"...the idea of discovery seems to be the overall theme of FW and even all of Epcot.
cookiee_munster
Well-Known Member
This post is really good and has its good points, a good discussion
i for one think they should change spaceship eath, but not drastically. Last time i went on (3 yrs ago) the ride system was very clancety and rickety.
I really agree with 1QKLIMO SSE should not become a rollercoaster. a rollercoaster does not solve everything in the themepark market...
I think it should still have almost the same view/theme it has but the ride system completely changed, something with umph that can still pack a punch onto the old heart strings and give out some emotion
and i think changing futureworld to discoveryland is a better idea, then at least it wont have to keep up with the ever increasing and growing modern world.
i for one think they should change spaceship eath, but not drastically. Last time i went on (3 yrs ago) the ride system was very clancety and rickety.
I really agree with 1QKLIMO SSE should not become a rollercoaster. a rollercoaster does not solve everything in the themepark market...
I think it should still have almost the same view/theme it has but the ride system completely changed, something with umph that can still pack a punch onto the old heart strings and give out some emotion
and i think changing futureworld to discoveryland is a better idea, then at least it wont have to keep up with the ever increasing and growing modern world.
DarkMeasures
New Member
I was thinking that if SSE: Time Racers uses the Dinosaur ride system that perhaps instead of using a hydralic system, the imagineers should have a rotation system. THat in a way could allow for the return to Earth to be done on those ride vehicles.
Screen Technology is cool though. Mission: Space's screens are very awsome just due to the fact that you see different stuff at different angles.
Screen Technology is cool though. Mission: Space's screens are very awsome just due to the fact that you see different stuff at different angles.
Buzzy989
New Member
EPCOT always has been and still is, at its core, a celebration of humanity. All of the pavilions examine basic human urges to create, explore, gain self-awareness, and improve not only our personal lives but the entire world. All of the attractions you mention, Dox, reveal all of these qualities of mankind. Rosy and broad? You sound negative, Dox, but you're actually right on track! EPCOT is very broad. . . just consider the definition of the park presented during its Opening Celebration Special:
EPCOT isn't just an anything. . . oh, no!
It isn't just a resort, it isn't just a world's fair, not just a cavalcade of wizardry, technology and flair.
It's not just epicurean displays by international gourmets, where one can dine, lunch, munch, crunch, for days and days and days!
Not just a festival of music, dance, the arts or education,
Nor a pageant for the senses sparked by wild imagination!
Not just communication nor the bounty of the land; not just the world of motion, nor the ocean, nor the sand.
It's not just transportation, nor light or sight or sound,
Not just satellites in space nor the fossils underground.
Where EPCOT is concerned, there ain't no JUST about it!
EPCOT isn't just an anything -- it's everything and more!
A great deal more than anything the world has seen before!
The perfect planned community, the splendorific sprawl!
And EPCOT is the heart of it all!
And, on the topic of exploring the past, here's how EPCOT historian Richard R. Beard describes its usefulness to park guests:
"Each pavilion approaches its theme by giving us a look at where we were, where we are now, and what the possibilities of the future are. While some pavilions leap forward fifty or one hundred years, others emphasize that the technology available to us today will create the world of tomorrow -- indeed, that the world of tomorrow is already upon us."
Even Living with the Land, which some of us find to be one of the most futuristic, innovative attractions, begins by describing, at length, the process of the land's fortification. . . from the deluge to the rainforest habitat, even looking at the old American farm. In other words, the past is considered as a font of inspiration and the place where progress had to be made to arrive where we are today. . . and where we will be tomorrow. If you ask me, Spaceship Earth's vistas into the past are even more pertinent than the ones in Living with the Land. And Spaceship Earth, after all, as the prologue and prelude to EPCOT, should examine our roots as a dynamic people before guests explore the many creative branches stemming from eons of creative development.
The story which unfolds in Spaceship Earth is by no means didactic. It illustrates and shows more than it tells. It conveys a comprehensive view of mankind's progress without mentioning a single date or a single prominent person. It communicates to guests of all ages, and it informs and inspires. . . it doesn't teach.
Just take this excerpt from an issue of "Orlando Magazine," written by Edward L. Prizer:
"You are not plowing through a dry history book. You are there, living, with the animated seamen and scholars, this crucial chapter in the drama that made the world of today what it is."
What screen presentation could perform as good of a job as does the traditional and constantly evolving Audio-Animatronics technology?
And just think of the possibilities for a revamped finale. Here is another of Richard Beard's passages:
"[Spaceship Earth ends] with a last and rather awesome look at the current state of the art of communication -- Landsat views of the earth; thermography; computer graphics and animation; microcircuitry; computer-enhanced images of ourselves and our environment; and a veritable deluge of information. . . ."
And we have come so far since this piece was written! The finale and ride system could surely be retailored to truly encompass both EPCOT's "prologue and promise." In short, the attraction's focus is sheer genius, and Spaceship Earth must continue to be the vehicle which communicates these vital messages, as well as shed light on the frontiers of where we're headed.
To close, I would like to introduce one more author's take on the marvel of Spaceship Earth. The Magic Kingdom once released a publication which, I believe, best describes the function of Spaceship Earth's unique and timeless point-of-view:
"Having re-lived our past and eyed our future, we time passengers are now ready to become captains, to chart our earth's course toward tomorrow and determine our own destinies."
May Spaceship Earth continue to serve as a reminder of our vital past accomplishments and a beacon of the promise of tomorrow.
Lee
Adventurer
Uummmm......close, but not exactly.
Is there any indication that they will retain AAs in the attraction?
Actually, there is no indication that AAs will be excluded, just maybe not the same ones. Not sure.
Everyone ease up on the screen factor. Best I can tell, the ride will include screens, but not be limited to them.
AdLibSean
New Member
I agree- I think the fact that an entire attraction is housed WITHIN the structure itself is what makes SSE unique. The fact that it DOESN'T have a show building like Haunted Mansion or Dinosaur makes it unlike any other attraction at Walt Disney World. I'd rather have it changed than for the ride system to leave the sphere.
magicjay1989
New Member
I think that we are missing the whole picture here!!! Yes spaceship earth is what sets the look and feel of future world or soon to be discoveryland (Ten bucks it only took them 1 second to come up with up that name :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol You must also relize that they are redoing all the rides ecept ones that are popular (Ex: Ms and tt.) So if you think about it space ship earth is going through a makeover to match a new epcot. But one thing is for sure you can not stop the gemini!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You must also relize that they are redoing all the rides ecept ones that are popular (Ex: Ms and tt.) So if you think about it space ship earth is going through a makeover to match a new epcot. But one thing is for sure you can not stop the gemini!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clemster
Member
Going off on a slight tangent does anyone else feel during the 60's, 70's and 80's there was a great sense of looking forward to the future and imagining what posibilites it would hold, where people dreamt up elaborate visions of just how the future would unfold. Epcot when it opened fitted right into this vision with rides like Horizons that showed you what it would be like to have a house in space (I am remembering the correct ride aren't I?) and SSE showing you how communication has progressed and getting you excited with the thought of the possibilitiesthat the future will bring.
Ever since my first visit in 89 (when I was 9) Epcot has been my favourite park it got me excited I remember being on the plane home embarassing my parents singing "If you can dream it then you can do it, yes you can!"
Does anyone else feel that these days the sense of dreaming about the future has gone? No one seems to think up their colourfull visions of what is to come. Are we becoming a society of cynics that are too afraid to look and dream about what the future holds?
The generall concensus from kids (and adults?) who visit Epcot these days say it's boring, for me it's only boring if you don't embrace the message that is sent out.
I can see why Disney would want to put thrill rides into Epcot, because it's becoming the style of attraction the appeals to the mass market.
For me Epcot has never been about thrill rides it's about excitement, you can take excitement away from a ride but a thrill ride you have your ride and that's it to get the thrill again you need to go on the ride again. Taking it to it's extreme thrill rides are like the opium of theme park attractions.
I should imagine many will disagree to varying disagrees but thought I should add my 2cents!!
Ever since my first visit in 89 (when I was 9) Epcot has been my favourite park it got me excited I remember being on the plane home embarassing my parents singing "If you can dream it then you can do it, yes you can!"
Does anyone else feel that these days the sense of dreaming about the future has gone? No one seems to think up their colourfull visions of what is to come. Are we becoming a society of cynics that are too afraid to look and dream about what the future holds?
The generall concensus from kids (and adults?) who visit Epcot these days say it's boring, for me it's only boring if you don't embrace the message that is sent out.
I can see why Disney would want to put thrill rides into Epcot, because it's becoming the style of attraction the appeals to the mass market.
For me Epcot has never been about thrill rides it's about excitement, you can take excitement away from a ride but a thrill ride you have your ride and that's it to get the thrill again you need to go on the ride again. Taking it to it's extreme thrill rides are like the opium of theme park attractions.
I should imagine many will disagree to varying disagrees but thought I should add my 2cents!!