Roll It ...Again............

"El Gran Magnifico"

Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Original Poster
@ main problems that cannot be fixed at this point are:
  1. There was never any story arch planned (like Marvel does with Feige).
  2. The Last Jedi ruined so many aspects of what arch there was (or was planned by JJ), that to fix them just makes Ep. 9 have to focus on a bunch of retcons, instead of just focusing on completing a well thought out and compelling dramatic trilogy.

Agreed. It seems Disney approached this like it was the NBA All Star game. Just bring in a bunch of big names and let them "do their thing" without a whole heck of a lot of preparation. They weren't looking at this from a team approach, where they had a defined objective and knew the end game. They should have agreed on how it ends - and have a few ideas of how they were going to get there - before even putting ink-to-paper.

Although TFA was a reboot, it set a few characters up very nicely - to be evolved/developed for the remaining 2 films.

But the biggest blunder Johnson made in character evolution/development IMO, was with The Knights of Ren. TKR could (should) have been epic. And Johnson just ignores them?
 

General Hux

Member
Agreed. It seems Disney approached this like it was the NBA All Star game. Just bring in a bunch of big names and let them "do their thing" without a whole heck of a lot of preparation. They weren't looking at this from a team approach, where they had a defined objective and knew the end game. They should have agreed on how it ends - and have a few ideas of how they were going to get there - before even putting ink-to-paper.

Although TFA was a reboot, it set a few characters up very nicely - to be evolved/developed for the remaining 2 films.

But the biggest blunder Johnson made in character evolution/development IMO, was with The Knights of Ren. TKR could (should) have been epic. And Johnson just ignores them?
We are of the same mind here.

I see what you are saying about the Knights of Ren. That is one of dozens of examples of things which were set up and then either subverted or abandoned by Johnson. The thing is, that a lot of really good movies (including the original trilogy) do this at times because of editing or tweaks to the story, so when we point these specific examples out (like the Knights), people will respond that its no big deal. But I think the point is that in this case, it is a symptom of a disease, rather than the rare exception it is in other good movies that abandon certain plot lines.

And yeah, TFA was a reboot, but I didn't mind that (sounds like you didn't either). After all, WW2 was a sort of reboot of WW1, so we can suspend disbelief with TFA. And it seemed obvious after TFA that the next one would not need to be as rebooty, and I was genuinely excited to see where they took the new characters... to see what plot arc Disney had in mind. Because, you know... obviously there is a general arc to something that is announced ahead of time as a trilogy.

Instead, we got a game of Mad Libs or telephone, or choose your own adventure, where the story is handed off to Johnson and treated as if it can go anywhere without regard to any fixed landmarks of previously established character traits or theming.

There are dozens of forgivable things in TLJ... if taken separately:

-Luke retreating to an Island to take a break from the force.
-Reys parents being drunks and subverting the setup about her lineage in TFA.
-Knights of Ren AWOL
-Canto bight
-Rose Teco
-the "save the horse-donkeys" instead of slaves, and instead of actually completing the mission.
-Luke chucking the lightsaber over his shoulder (played for cheap laughs)
-Luke almost murdering a child in his sleep
-hyperspace ramming
-lazers bending in space
-Lame slo-mo ship chase with gaping plot holes (gee I wonder if they are trying to sneak onto that planet that they are flying directly towards)
-Luke having doubts about the goodness of the Jedi
-Space Witch Leia
-Killing off Akbar without comment
-Tone deaf yo-mamma jokes making Hux look very un-scary, and played for very cheap laughs.
-The movie-long berating and humiliation of a character (Poe) who was set up as a hero in the previous movie, again done for some cheap points of some sort.
-The first movie in the saga to not have a single lightsaber duel
-Killing off Luke without letting him at least have a battle.
-Killing off Snoke with zero explaination
-many, many more

Take any 2 or 3 of these and surround them with good plot, characters whose actions make sense, good drama, good action, and an overall continuity with the Force Awakens, and you have a good movie. Put them all together and you have a disaster.
 

Sundown

Well-Known Member
Very good analysis. I enjoyed reading through the posts.

I have a question that I'd like to ask those who liked The Last Jedi and those who did not...what are your thoughts on Rian Johnson getting to develop a trilogy of his own?

I just wonder with the amount of money Disney invests, what do they do now that so many Star Wars fans have zero-faith in Rian Johnson as a director/creator for Star Wars? Do they still invest in it when they know ahead of time that many SW fans won't go see the movies or buy the toys, etc?

I don't think they have this problem with the Game Of Thrones directors, right? There seems to be excitement for what they come-up with for Star Wars.
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Original Poster
I have a question that I'd like to ask those who liked The Last Jedi and those who did not...what are your thoughts on Rian Johnson getting to develop a trilogy of his own?

Not a fan of the idea. And here's why. The assumption is that his trilogy is based on Disney's feeling that he warrants this opportunity based on the success of TLJ. Nothing personal but I could have directed TLJ and it would have been profitable (Not really, but you get the point - any decent director walks into the SW trilogy after TFA's success and people are going to go watch it).

Now that I have seen a Rian Johnson SW movie, I can formulate an opinion on a Rian Johnson SW movie - and I was not impressed. Not impressed with the films continuity, character development, plot holes, and things that just plain didn't make sense. I'm also not a fan of the political and social references made in that (or any) film. And that's not a critique because I do or do not agree with the messaging. I just want a film that entertains, not that pushes a political or social narrative at me.

Right now I view Johnson's trilogy that way. Once he realizes that a film is a vehicle for entertainment and not a pulpit, I may re-visit my view. Sadly, I don't see that happening with his trilogy.

I also fear that one of 2 things are going to happen. He will either overcompensate to try and appease SW fans to the point it will be overkill and ruin the movie. Or he's going to double down. I fear that the latter is the path he will take.
 
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erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
I have a question that I'd like to ask those who liked The Last Jedi and those who did not...what are your thoughts on Rian Johnson getting to develop a trilogy of his own?
I am not too excited for Rian to make a new trilogy. Buuuuuut, I firmly believe it won't happen anyway. I just don't see them following through with it. The only one who seems to be talking about it is Rian and Iger hasn't mentioned it since I can't remember. Once Kennedy is gone after 9, most likely, I don't see whoever comes in wanting any part of a Rian Johnson star wars movie.
 

tk924

Well-Known Member
I have a question that I'd like to ask those who liked The Last Jedi and those who did not...what are your thoughts on Rian Johnson getting to develop a trilogy of his own?

I just wonder with the amount of money Disney invests, what do they do now that so many Star Wars fans have zero-faith in Rian Johnson as a director/creator for Star Wars? Do they still invest in it when they know ahead of time that many SW fans won't go see the movies or buy the toys, etc?

I don't think they have this problem with the Game Of Thrones directors, right? There seems to be excitement for what they come-up with for Star Wars.


It looks as though Disney may be forging ahead with Ruin Johnson.

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-movies-future-johnson-benioff-weiss-trilogy/

I don't know how credible that source is, but I've got a bad feeling about this.
 

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