News Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster closing for refurbishment in February 2023

celluloid

Well-Known Member
When you worked in roller coaster maintenance, did you often see coaster tracks in the state of Rock’n’Roller Coasters? What components needed attention in order to make the ride smoother for guests?

I was not in Rollercoaster Maintenance, but when I assisted in the coordination of the "redesign"(the course did not really change for the rider) for The Incredible Hulk Coaster, it was well known to the industry standard that it is the rollercoaster vehicle that causes most of the smoothness of the attraction for the guests, not the track. It was deemed worth it for The Hulk to be completely retracked. That was not going to change the roughness many speak of.

A damaged track can cause safety issues, and eventually, is either serviced or replaced for the safety, but the comfort of the guest to traverse the track is within the wheels of the train and the train itself. This is why the Hulk's trains were also completely replaced but some of the head banging roughness will always be there due to the physics of the attraction, particularly near the final portions of the corkscrew and the post on ride photo sections of that attraction. That comes from the design. RnR's late 90s Vekoma and elements definitely has some of that, but the roughness comes from the coaster train, not the track itself. Hulk also had the elements do deal with, and far more stress than Vekoma compared to B&M, which makes a major or complete retrack highly unlikely.

As far as components, I can go into detail of what wheels such an upstop do and how tight they can be on a track, but it gets rather technical and is one aspect.

This is why some rides, such as experiences on RIp Ride Rockit can vary. Particulary about six years ago, there were some very rough trains on Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit.

https://rcdb.com/528. Fun fact maybe for coaster fans, this is the same layout for the most part of RnR, it has been outside in the elements and although Premier, the forces are mostly the same.
The RnR trains are perhaps slightly heavier, but negligible.
 
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dsw307182

New Member
The steel track must be approaching end of life. RnRC and Hulk both opened in 1999 with similar run-time (if not more by RnRC). Hulk's track was approaching its cycle limit and fatigued out, hence the track replacement in 2016.

Granted max cycles of the design will be different between Vekoma and BnM, but I imagine they should be close.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
The steel track must be approaching end of life. RnRC and Hulk both opened in 1999 with similar run-time (if not more by RnRC). Hulk's track was approaching its cycle limit and fatigued out, hence the track replacement in 2016.

Granted max cycles of the design will be different between Vekoma and BnM, but I imagine they should be close.
But then we have Space Mountain at MK. Indoor coasters seem to last significantly longer.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
The steel track must be approaching end of life. RnRC and Hulk both opened in 1999 with similar run-time (if not more by RnRC). Hulk's track was approaching its cycle limit and fatigued out, hence the track replacement in 2016.

Granted max cycles of the design will be different between Vekoma and BnM, but I imagine they should be close.

As a whole it should be fine.

Vekoma tracks are very similar to arrows in terms of stress. With good upkeep they are likely to last a while.

If the track is at the end of its service life, it is because TDO did not upkeep it properly along the way. The Incredible Hulk's forces are much greater on the B&M track due to weight of vehicle and intensity of elmements. This is why it was decided to totally retrack the course rather than replace a few pieces, like Busch Gardens and others have done with their B&Ms.

Loch Ness, a track design of Arrow, but Vekoma structure are similar, has been around at Busch Gardens WIlliamsburg for decades. While it does not operate year-round as a coaster, the park has operated it since the 70s.
 

dsw307182

New Member
But then we have Space Mountain at MK. Indoor coasters seem to last significantly longer.
Hi Steve, I can't comment about SM as that was in the pioneer days of steel coaster design, but all modern steel coasters have a stated spec sheet of don't operate below a temperature of X, when the wind is above Y, or beyond the earlier of Z cycles or so many years. I could imagine indoor helping to boost the max years, wonder if that would also impact the max cycle count. I will ask.
 

dsw307182

New Member
As a whole it should be fine.

Vekoma tracks are very similar to arrows in terms of stress. With good upkeep they are likely to last a while.

If the track is at the end of its service life, it is because TDO did not upkeep it properly along the way. The Incredible Hulk's forces are much greater on the B&M track due to weight of vehicle and intensity of elmements. This is why it was decided to totally retrack the course rather than replace a few pieces, like Busch Gardens and others have done with their B&Ms.

Loch Ness, a track design of Arrow, but Vekoma structure are similar, has been around at Busch Gardens WIlliamsburg for decades. While it does not operate year-round as a coaster, the park has operated it since the 70s.

Yes, Hulk was "used and abused". Possibly the larger spans and fewer columns limit the cycles more on BnM coasters vs Vekoma. You would have to see the design spec sheet to know for sure
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Yes, Hulk was "used and abused". Possibly the larger spans and fewer columns limit the cycles more on BnM coasters vs Vekoma. You would have to see the design spec sheet to know for sure

Its more about the weight. B&M supports are incredible. IMHO the best. The design of the Hulk has more intense maneuvers than RnR. The After the launch and initial inversion of RNR it lightens up the forces on the track quite a bit.

The Incredible Hulk not only has larger 4 across train designs with much more weight. It alsi has the launch into a heartline roll and the last third of The Hulk is very tight. This combined with the amount of use and the elements of weather create issues throughout the course that made it justifiable to replace the entire course rather than the most problematic parts.

Flight of Fear at King's Island and King's Dominion is an intense launched indoor coaster, it opened before RnR and is still going with most of its original work in tact but serviced. It is a seasonal park but definitely has more intensity in its elements and force on the track's than most of RnR.

What did change of Flight of Fear, going back to the original points, was the Trains' restraints to make a more comfortable ride.
 
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larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
Its more about the weight. B&M supports are incredible. IMHO the best. The design of the Hulk has more intense maneuvers than RnR. The After the launch and initial inversion of RNR it lightens up the forces on the track quite a bit.

The Incredible Hulk not only has larger 4 across train designs with much more weight. It alsi has the launch into a heartline roll and the last third of The Hulk is very tight. This combined with the amount of use and the elements of weather create issues throughout the course that made it justifiable to replace the entire course rather than the most problematic parts.

Flight of Fear at King's Island and King's Dominion is an intense launched indoor coaster, it opened before RnR and is still going with most of its original work in tact but serviced. It is a seasonal park but definitely has more intensity in its elements and force on the track's than most of RnR.

What did change of Flight of Fear, going back to the original points, was the Trains' restraints to make a more comfortable ride.
Just looking at the track and supports, B&M coasters seem vastly over-engineered for that they do.

Some of the other manufacturer's tracks scare me a little.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Just looking at the track and supports, B&M coasters seem vastly over-engineered for that they do.

Some of the other manufacturer's tracks scare me a little.

That is always my take on it. They are always positioned very well to allow the shock to be absorbed well yet stable.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Its more about the weight. B&M supports are incredible. IMHO the best. The design of the Hulk has more intense maneuvers than RnR. The After the launch and initial inversion of RNR it lightens up the forces on the track quite a bit.

The Incredible Hulk not only has larger 4 across train designs with much more weight. It alsi has the launch into a heartline roll and the last third of The Hulk is very tight. This combined with the amount of use and the elements of weather create issues throughout the course that made it justifiable to replace the entire course rather than the most problematic parts.

Flight of Fear at King's Island and King's Dominion is an intense launched indoor coaster, it opened before RnR and is still going with most of its original work in tact but serviced. It is a seasonal park but definitely has more intensity in its elements and force on the track's than most of RnR.

What did change of Flight of Fear, going back to the original points, was the Trains' restraints to make a more comfortable ride.
Not a word about the footers?
Just looking at the track and supports, B&M coasters seem vastly over-engineered for that they do.

Some of the other manufacturer's tracks scare me a little.
It's a Swiss/German thing
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I was referring to the rot from sitting in water for 20 years and how they cut the tops off and rebuilt them for the new steel



I meant the B&M supports with their cool angle look are some of my favs visually and they are quite well designed.

Smoothness wise, it's mostly I'm dynamics of the maneuvers and trains.

I always like the look of their rectangular spined tracks. They perfected their early partnership with intimin.

I love needing out. I wish I was better at the industry to be in a place where it could be right for me or me right for it. Seven years after my time and I am in Public Education in another state. What an unpredictable life.
 
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JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
True.

I meant the B&M supports with their cool angle look are some of my favs visually and they are quite well designed.

Smoothness wise, it's mostly I'm dynamics of the maneuvers and trains.
Many years ago I did R&RC 12 times in a row one morning (no line) and have never understood the "rough" comments, I must have had new wheels and light cars but I was swooping in the dark for a long time. It was a lot of fun but it was many years ago now. B&M look like what they deliver, a hard hitting, beefy ride but they muted Hulk's roar.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Many years ago I did R&RC 12 times in a row one morning (no line) and have never understood the "rough" comments, I must have had new wheels and light cars but I was swooping in the dark for a long time. It was a lot of fun but it was many years ago now. B&M look like what they deliver, a hard hitting, beefy ride but they muted Hulk's roar.

I don't find it paritcularly rough either. I just was asked to.give.my two cents on how it could be and just the track would not be the major cause.

Yes. I hate that Hulk's Roar is muted in a thematic sense. What I dislike even more are the tunnel and queue changes.

Kumba still roars, after all, it was marketed as a word for War in a language near the Congo.


I am grateful for Sea World partnership with B&M. Here is hoping Pipeline brings it back with glory.

Your story reminded me of atime before I ever worked for any of the parks and the doors of Doctor Doom's Deadfall opened up to a reveal why they only had my party of these there without anyone else. A guy was already in a seat. It was like 20 min after park opening and he explains he is going for a personal record. If I recall right it was an upper teen number.

Just in case you were him. It was a fun memory.
 
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Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
Many years ago I did R&RC 12 times in a row one morning (no line) and have never understood the "rough" comments, I must have had new wheels and light cars but I was swooping in the dark for a long time. It was a lot of fun but it was many years ago now. B&M look like what they deliver, a hard hitting, beefy ride but they muted Hulk's roar.
The only "rough" steel coaster I've ridden was Vortex too many times. Others I haven't has much issues. Wood on the other hand, I feel like a ping pong ball.
 

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