Riviera resort

[havoc315]

You are correct about one thing. The WDW Riviera would blend in quite well in the real French Riviera, so well that it would not even be visible as a background element.

I'll take authenticity over grotesque caricature like the Boardwalk or Beach Club.

 

[havoc315]

Defending it by saying there are similar hotels in the Riviera of modern France and Italy (any similar ones in Europe were built or reskinned well after the thematic period of 1870s-1920s) is like saying the below ought to have been the design for the Grand Floridian because Florida has lots of hotels that look like this:

Actually.. the design of the Grand Floridian gets an F.... They definitely mimicked a grand beach hotel. But for some odd reason, they decided to mimic a grand Californian beach hotel..

So yes... I do wish they had actually themed the Grand Floridian after Florida aesthetic resorts, instead of copying a Southern California hotel.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Actually.. the design of the Grand Floridian gets an F.... They definitely mimicked a grand beach hotel. But for some odd reason, they decided to mimic a grand Californian beach hotel..

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So yes... I do wish they had actually themed the Grand Floridian after Florida aesthetic resorts, instead of copying a Southern California hotel.

The GF kicks the Riviera's butt in class, style and ambiance. The back in the day Disney imaginEars still had So Cal on the brain.

 

[havoc315]

The GF kicks the Riviera's butt in class, style and ambiance. The back in the day Disney imaginEars still had So Cal on the brain.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I couldn't disagree more. The GF, to me, feels like completely fake, feels like a comical attempt at extravagance, but it's really a mediocre hotel a big lobby with some chandeliers thrown around.

Room photo from the GF:

Zero character, and actually feels cheap. I'd rather stay at a Marriott than pay the exorbitant rates for the GF. But I guess that's why they can't fill the GF, and they are giving free upgrades to value resorts guests to stay at the GF.

Basically, the GF feels to me like a cliche attempt at elegance and opulence.

 

[RandySavage]

More like:

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Fact is, there are multiple cities and towns along the Riviera where the Riviera Resort would blend right in. In fact, you can see a lot of the elements from the old Hotel Riviera Palace in Monte Carlo. (the colors, the ground floor archways and stone work, nearly identical).

You don't like the style of hotels in the real Riviera... that's fine.

I love the style of the historic hotels in the real Riviera, which make up most of your examples.

That's the massive problem I have with Disney's Riviera. It SHOULD have looked like your examples. It COULD have looked like your exampes with the right people in charge.

But it looks nothing like your examples - in Order, in Proportion, in Hierarchy, in Balance, in Scale, in Materials, in Ornament. It's like a child's drawing of one of your example buildings: Floating offscale dormers. Surroundless windows. Home Depot railings. On and on and on. Even if one is not knowledgeable about historic architecture, you sense something is very, very off about the building.

Disney hired some of the worst architects on earth for this hotel.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You are correct about one thing. The WDW Riviera would blend in quite well in the real French Riviera, so well that it would not even be visible as a background element.

why is everything inside “Italian”??

my theory is exactly what I said in an earlier post.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I couldn't disagree more. The GF, to me, feels like completely fake, feels like a comical attempt at extravagance, but it's really a mediocre hotel a big lobby with some chandeliers thrown around.

Room photo from the GF:

View attachment 559689

Zero character, and actually feels cheap. I'd rather stay at a Marriott than pay the exorbitant rates for the GF. But I guess that's why they can't fill the GF, and they are giving free upgrades to value resorts guests to stay at the GF.

Basically, the GF feels to me like a cliche attempt at elegance and opulence.

...how many points did they sucker you into?

 

[havoc315]

...how many points did they sucker you into?

Quite the opposite. It was the first DVC resort that I found to be worth the cost. Not really a fan of any of the others. (I do like Poly and Beach Club as resorts, but not as a DVC (Poly -- only studios. BCV, beyond the short contract, the rooms are awful. And none of the others come close to interesting me).

 

[havoc315]

I love the style of the historic hotels in the real Riviera, which make up most of your examples.

That's the massive problem I have with Disney's Riviera. It SHOULD have looked like your examples. It COULD have looked like your exampes with the right people in charge.

But it looks nothing like your examples - in Order, in Proportion, in Hierarchy, in Balance, in Scale, in Materials, in Ornament. It's like a child's drawing of one of your example buildings: Floating offscale dormers. Surroundless windows. Home Depot railings. On and on and on. Even if one is not knowledgeable about historic architecture, you sense something is very, very off about the building.

I don't agree with everything you said in that list, but I'll respect that as some thoughtful and appropriate criticisms.

I would agree that it is closer to "inspired" by the look of Riviera hotels, as opposed to a replica.

But here is the thing, for all the imperfections, IMO, it's the nicest hotel on WDW property. Open and airy, large well appointed rooms, a smallish resort with good dining and pools...
So we can go on about how the dormers aren't quite perfect, but for me, it has far far more positive points than negative. I don't spend much time contemplating the dormers.

 

[Benjamin_Nicholas]

Four seasons??

I’d say your praise is rather “effusive”

it looks exactly like what it was designed to be:

a place for DVC - specification New York centric - to sit by the pool and be proud of themselves...wrapped in Vegas concrete.

mission:accomplished

I'd say my praise was metered, as I wouldn't be caught dead there to begin with.

Frankly, it looks like what people who have never been to the French Riviera think the French Riviera looks like.

Kinda the same way folks say they've 'seen' the Eiffel Tower already.... In Vegas.

 

[Benjamin_Nicholas]

Theme is the entire Riviera region, which includes France. Italy and Monaco. They took clear inspiration from some of the finer hotels in the region but went less elaborate. Yet, there are some parts of the Riviera where the Riviera resort would blend in perfectly.

But definitely feels “less European” than what many Americans would expect. And they definitely went less elaborate than the finest hotels in the region. There are lots of hotels in the Riviera that look much like the Riviera Resort.

I spend a lot of time in Nice, usually staying along the Promenade des Anglais... I'm a sucker for walking the Cours Saleya on the daily. While I see how Disney wanted to incorporate minor inspirations, it's clear they didn't want to spend the money to really make it pop.

As someone mentioned in this thread, it really does look like Nice by ways of a Jersey airport Marriott.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'd say my praise was metered, as I wouldn't be caught dead there to begin with.

Frankly, it looks like what people who have never been to the French Riviera think the French Riviera looks like.

Kinda the same way folks say they've 'seen' the Eiffel Tower already.... In Vegas.

ok...you just proved to me that “you’re cool”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I spend a lot of time in Nice, usually staying along the Promenade des Anglais... I'm a sucker for walking the Cours Saleya on the daily. While I see how Disney wanted to incorporate minor inspirations, it's clear they didn't want to spend the money to really make it pop.

As someone mentioned in this thread, it really does look like Nice by ways of a Jersey airport Marriott.

Disney has been trying to “save” on their DVC builds for about 20 years...the one exception may be kidani...where the history of “Jambo” probably forced them to go a little nicer than they could at perhaps at a poly or a grand Floridian on amenities.

 

[havoc315]

Disney has been trying to “save” on their DVC builds for about 20 years...the one exception may be kidani...where the history of “Jambo” probably forced them to go a little nicer than they could at perhaps at a poly or a grand Floridian on amenities.

Agreed they did well at Kidani. Most of the other DVC’s in the last 20 years have just been room conversions.
Of the non room conversion DVCs, putting aside location ( main downside of Kidani), I’d rank Riviera above BLT and SSR, and below Kidani. (OKW isn’t quite comparable… a different time)

 

[Heppenheimer]

Theme is the entire Riviera region, which includes France. Italy and Monaco. They took clear inspiration from some of the finer hotels in the region but went less elaborate. Yet, there are some parts of the Riviera where the Riviera resort would blend in perfectly.

But definitely feels “less European” than what many Americans would expect. And they definitely went less elaborate than the finest hotels in the region. There are lots of hotels in the Riviera that look much like the Riviera Resort.

I'm pretty sure that you could find an Ibis or Novotel somewhere in the French and Italian Rivieras too. But nobody goes there to admire the architecture of an Ibis property.

 

[havoc315]

I'm pretty sure that you could find an Ibis or Novotel somewhere in the French and Italian Rivieras too. But nobody goes there to admire the architecture of an Ibis property.

Not talking about a Novotel. I’m talking about the style and architecture that actually predominates much of the Riviera coastline.

 

[havoc315]

I'm pretty sure that you could find an Ibis or Novotel somewhere in the French and Italian Rivieras too. But nobody goes there to admire the architecture of an Ibis property.

Example:

This is the Royal Riviera in Monaco:

Here is a generic Marriott:

Now, maybe you think the Royal Riviera in Monaco looks like a Marriott.

But here is a comparable image of the Riviera Resort.... Which to me looks a lot more like the Royal Riviera than the Marriott:

Or the Grand Hotel Miramare:

Vs a Marriott:

vs Riviera Resort:

From the grounds, to the general architecture, from the pools, to the balconies...

I can certainly see someone saying that the imagineers could have been a bit richer in their design, or they cut corners, I can certainly see an argument that some of the elements are lacking some detail.... but there is no question that the design is much closer to what typifies the real Riviera as compared to generic Marriotts. (Of course, Marriott isn't just generic Marriotts, over the years, Marriott has bought and stuck their name on some of the most beautiful hotels in the world, they own the Ritz Carlton brand, St. Regis, you wouldn't do well criticizing a hotel if you said it is like the London Marriott Hotel Park Lane).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Agreed they did well at Kidani. Most of the other DVC’s in the last 20 years have just been room conversions.
Of the non room conversion DVCs, putting aside location ( main downside of Kidani), I’d rank Riviera above BLT and SSR, and below Kidani. (OKW isn’t quite comparable… a different time)

Totally agree...

dvc “designs” have been bare minimums for along time. That’s why I prefer the retrofits to “new” construction...they just don’t put the effort into pools/amenities that they once did. It’s an afterthought

 

[havoc315]

Totally agree...

dvc “designs” have been bare minimums for along time. That’s why I prefer the retrofits to “new” construction...they just don’t put the effort into pools/amenities that they once did. It’s an afterthought

My problem with the "retrofits" -- They aren't DVC. They are excess hotel room inventory, they add a microwave, call it a studio, and sell it as DVC. (exaggerating but only slightly).
Some of these retrofits have gone better than others, but they all lack the fullness of property truly designed to be DVC.

That's what I like about the Riviera: 2 large pools, dining options, beautiful grounds, all as a coherent DVC property.

DVC really falls into 3 categories (with some overlap):
1 -- Truly standalone DVC: Fully only OKW and SSR. Riviera mostly falls into this category.
Here, you have entire properties really designed with DVC in mind. They include pretty full amenities (though OKW and SSR lack any signature dining, RIV lacks regular "1 credit" TS dining).
2-- "DVC building" shared with another resort. RIV falls slightly into this category, as they tore down part of CBR to build it, but RIV isn't reliant on CBR amenities. BLT and Kidani fall fully into this category. BLT is a failure. Other than a mediocre pool, it relies on Contemporary for most of its amenities. The design is entirely uninspired. The rooms feel cheap compared to Contemporary rooms.
Kidani is a success: While it's an additional building at AKL, it has its own style. It has its own nice feature pool, it's own dining.
BCV falls into this category. To me, as a DVC, it's a failure. Yes, I understand why people would LOVE the Beach Club and why they would own there. But the Villas don't ADD anything different and distinct. The Villas are set back, closer to the parking lot. The rooms are small, there really aren't good view rooms.
BWV: Mostly falls into this category, though I guess they have converted a bunch of BWI rooms into DVC as well. But BWI and BWV are so meshed together, they simply share the same pros and cons.
GFV had fallen into this category -- they did build a separate wing for DVC initially. So at least the rooms were truly designed to be DVC... but it really is just a building of rooms.
3 -- The conversions, retrofits. Wilderness Lodge, Polynesian, additional GFV.... To me, these aren't really "timeshares"... they are more just pre-paying for your hotel resort for 30-50 years.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Example:

This is the Royal Riviera in Monaco:

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Here is a generic Marriott:

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Now, maybe you think the Royal Riviera in Monaco looks like a Marriott.

But here is a comparable image of the Riviera Resort.... Which to me looks a lot more like the Royal Riviera than the Marriott:

View attachment 559781


Or the Grand Hotel Miramare:

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Vs a Marriott:

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vs Riviera Resort:

View attachment 559786

From the grounds, to the general architecture, from the pools, to the balconies...

I can certainly see someone saying that the imagineers could have been a bit richer in their design, or they cut corners, I can certainly see an argument that some of the elements are lacking some detail.... but there is no question that the design is much closer to what typifies the real Riviera as compared to generic Marriotts. (Of course, Marriott isn't just generic Marriotts, over the years, Marriott has bought and stuck their name on some of the most beautiful hotels in the world, they own the Ritz Carlton brand, St. Regis, you wouldn't do well criticizing a hotel if you said it is like the London Marriott Hotel Park Lane).

Looks to me like the Rivera resort is the love child of a Marriot father and French Riviera mother. True, she inherited touches of the grace and elegance of her mother, but overall, she takes after the blocky, bland features of her American father.