Riviera resort

[havoc315]

Looks to me like the Rivera resort is the love child of a Marriot father and French Riviera mother. True, she inherited touches of the grace and elegance of her mother, but overall, she takes after the blocky, bland features of her American father.

I don't see it. Let's remember.... It's not like a "Marriott" is a creature from outer space. Modern hotels "descended" from older hotels. So modern Marriotts and American hotels in general, descended from older European hotels.
So both a modern Marriott and the Disney Riviera... and every other hotel, "descended" from the prior hotels. Difference being the Disney Riviera Resort attempts to evoke a bit more of the style specifically found in that region.
It's the difference between the youngster who dresses up in vintage clothing vs the youngster who only tries to fit in with only the most generic but modern trends.
All the Disney resorts are playing "Dress up".... Boardwalk isn't ACTUALLY the Atlantic City Boardwalk.. It's just a question of how much effort do they put into the "dress up" and how well do they pull it off.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My problem with the "retrofits" -- They aren't DVC. They are excess hotel room inventory, they add a microwave, call it a studio, and sell it as DVC. (exaggerating but only slightly).
Some of these retrofits have gone better than others, but they all lack the fullness of property truly designed to be DVC.

That's what I like about the Riviera: 2 large pools, dining options, beautiful grounds, all as a coherent DVC property.

DVC really falls into 3 categories (with some overlap):
1 -- Truly standalone DVC: Fully only OKW and SSR. Riviera mostly falls into this category.
Here, you have entire properties really designed with DVC in mind. They include pretty full amenities (though OKW and SSR lack any signature dining, RIV lacks regular "1 credit" TS dining).
2-- "DVC building" shared with another resort. RIV falls slightly into this category, as they tore down part of CBR to build it, but RIV isn't reliant on CBR amenities. BLT and Kidani fall fully into this category. BLT is a failure. Other than a mediocre pool, it relies on Contemporary for most of its amenities. The design is entirely uninspired. The rooms feel cheap compared to Contemporary rooms.
Kidani is a success: While it's an additional building at AKL, it has its own style. It has its own nice feature pool, it's own dining.
BCV falls into this category. To me, as a DVC, it's a failure. Yes, I understand why people would LOVE the Beach Club and why they would own there. But the Villas don't ADD anything different and distinct. The Villas are set back, closer to the parking lot. The rooms are small, there really aren't good view rooms.
BWV: Mostly falls into this category, though I guess they have converted a bunch of BWI rooms into DVC as well. But BWI and BWV are so meshed together, they simply share the same pros and cons.
GFV had fallen into this category -- they did build a separate wing for DVC initially. So at least the rooms were truly designed to be DVC... but it really is just a building of rooms.
3 -- The conversions, retrofits. Wilderness Lodge, Polynesian, additional GFV.... To me, these aren't really "timeshares"... they are more just pre-paying for your hotel resort for 30-50 years.

they are absolutely a failure of their inventory management...

especially wilderness lodge...but DAKL, poly, contemporary and now Grand Floridian too...
Hell...caribbean was management “on purpose” to drive the prices up...

but at least with retrofits...you get the typically better pools and restaurants that were built for managers that care more.
The problem there is the more they tinker with that...the worse it gets

beauty and the beast mizners? ...you gotta be $&-!?ing kidding me?!

the riveria pools are rather pathetic...they’re side by side - intentionally to limit construction/staffing - packed to the gills looking at caribbean.



haven’t done the quickserve...but topplino is not a big deal...food is good but that is no guarantee to hold as they start to redline everything.

so how many points?? I hope not more than 250?

 

[MikeyK72]

Totally agree...

dvc “designs” have been bare minimums for along time. That’s why I prefer the retrofits to “new” construction...they just don’t put the effort into pools/amenities that they once did. It’s an afterthought

Honestly, I was very impressed with the kid's splash pool at the Riviera. I thought it was awesome.

 

[havoc315]

they are absolutely a failure of their inventory management...

especially wilderness lodge...but DAKL, poly, contemporary and now Grand Floridian too...
Hell...caribbean was management “on purpose” to drive the prices up...

but at least with retrofits...you get the typically better pools and restaurants that were built for managers that care more.
The problem there is the more they tinker with that...the worse it gets

beauty and the beast mizners? ...you gotta be $&-!?ing kidding me?!

the riveria pools are rather pathetic...they’re side by side - intentionally to limit construction/staffing - packed to the gills looking at caribbean.



haven’t done the quickserve...but topplino is not a big deal...food is good but that is no guarantee to hold as they start to redline everything.

so how many points?? I hope not more than 250?

200, but might want more..

No restaurant is a "big deal" is you are simply building an assumption that they can ruin any restaurant, any time. General sentiment might be that the Toppolino's is currently the best regular "signature" restaurant at WDW.

I happen to LOVE the pools at Riviera. I understand why they aren't for everyone: They aren't about lazy rivers, or elaborate water slides. But they are huge when you consider that they are meant only for 300 units. So they have plenty of seating, super relaxing. Never should feel "over crowded." With limited capacity over the last year, Riviera was one of the few resorts that didn't have a wait to get into the pool -- because it is very large relative to the size of the resort. If I still had 10-year-old kids, might prefer Stormalong Bay. But with older kids and adults, I'll take Riviera pools over Stormalong bay any time.

I see Beach Club and Riviera as two opposite sides of the coin (with other resorts in between). Beach Club feels like a THEME PARK hotel. That's both good and bad: Family friendly, loud, crowded, small rooms, "populist" dining of character buffets and ice cream shops, walk to the park.
Riviera feels like a bit of an oasis AWAY from the theme park: large spacious rooms, a restaurant you would want to dine in, even if it wasn't a theme park vacation, large relaxing pools. Comparably small and cozy (only 300 units)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

200, but might want more..

No restaurant is a "big deal" is you are simply building an assumption that they can ruin any restaurant, any time. General sentiment might be that the Toppolino's is currently the best regular "signature" restaurant at WDW.

I happen to LOVE the pools at Riviera. I understand why they aren't for everyone: They aren't about lazy rivers, or elaborate water slides. But they are huge when you consider that they are meant only for 300 units. So they have plenty of seating, super relaxing. Never should feel "over crowded." With limited capacity over the last year, Riviera was one of the few resorts that didn't have a wait to get into the pool -- because it is very large relative to the size of the resort. If I still had 10-year-old kids, might prefer Stormalong Bay. But with older kids and adults, I'll take Riviera pools over Stormalong bay any time.

I see Beach Club and Riviera as two opposite sides of the coin (with other resorts in between). Beach Club feels like a THEME PARK hotel. That's both good and bad: Family friendly, loud, crowded, small rooms, "populist" dining of character buffets and ice cream shops, walk to the park.
Riviera feels like a bit of an oasis AWAY from the theme park: large spacious rooms, a restaurant you would want to dine in, even if it wasn't a theme park vacation, large relaxing pools. Comparably small and cozy (only 300 units)

well...that pretty much tells the story...

you bought on something built on the haunted remains of the Caribbean Customs house? (My old “haunt”...when we charged starting at $84 a night and knew our lane)

...man...I wish I woulda had this exchange 3 years ago

those pools are packed, kid...and there’s enough back hair to rebuild the Italian Navy...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Honestly, I was very impressed with the kid's splash pool at the Riviera. I thought it was awesome.

That seemed to be “ok”...but those are actually pretty good at kidani, grand Floridian, poly as well...

that’s actually a highlight at Saratoga

 

[Disone]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I couldn't disagree more. The GF, to me, feels like completely fake, feels like a comical attempt at extravagance, but it's really a mediocre hotel a big lobby with some chandeliers thrown around.

Room photo from the GF:

View attachment 559689

Zero character, and actually feels cheap. I'd rather stay at a Marriott than pay the exorbitant rates for the GF. But I guess that's why they can't fill the GF, and they are giving free upgrades to value resorts guests to stay at the GF.

Basically, the GF feels to me like a cliche attempt at elegance and opulence.

You bring up some interesting critiques here. Grand Floridian does book well. Pre shutdown it was rockin it with high occupany. Post reopening took a while to ramp up but eventually the demand got high enough that they literally opened up the concierge buildings as regular rooms to satisfy that demand. Whether or not that remains in play after the other deluxe's begin opening is to be see.

Also Whether it should be struggling to sell those rooms is a different question.... I think here your critics are most interesting.

For me, I don't know that I would describe a room at the Grand Floridian as feeling cheap. I would go more with dated. The living/sleeping areas are fine. The picture you chose are a little older as the beds have been a bit more bare then you pictured. I appreciate that you did not go out of your way to find the worst looking picture of a Grand Floridian room. I actually think the picture you used does the Grand some credit. It doesn't look terrible. However you would be hard-pressed to get a good picture of the bathrooms. The bathrooms specifically are way too generic.

The deluxe studios at GV and Rivera are really nice in the design of the bathroom. I can't help but feel thet were designed by the same person who designed split bath rooms of Disney Cruise Line, but that's not a bad thing. Should be very interesting on where they land on the resort studios bathroom's final design.

You feel it's a cliche attempt of Elegance and opulence. My opinion is that when Disney built the Grand Floridian they built an undeniably beautiful hotel and by design an extension of the theme park experience focused on entertainment, food and beverage with a hint of luxury thrown in for good measure.

With the passing of time and until Enchanted Rose, Disney did decent job of remaining entertainment focused and food and beverage Focused. Not so much on that hint of luxury they started with, it kind of faded to the background and yes to the point of almost being cliche.

More recently I think the Grand Floridian is all over the place. It's trying to be luxurious but aside from being beautiful and really well landscaped, I don't know that it's actually designed to be luxurious. Its intent was to be designed as an extension of the theme park experience and as a result right or wrong, past room refurbishments focused on the living area and ignored the aging and dated bathroom area. And now they are fighting an uphill battle.

The band is gone. The piano players are back and there is some talk if bringing "entertainment" back.... But they don't know what that looks like yet. Here I think the Grand Floridian is loss.

Enchanted rose is very lovely place, 2/3's of it are really nice. The main bar itself and the library. I'm not a huge fan of the patio and the "Enchanted Forest". Overall I would take it over Mizner's which had become..... Old. I just don't think Enchanted Rose belongs in the lobby of a Victorian themed Beach Resort. I do think this bar would have been much more at home at the Riviera Resort.

 

[MikeyK72]

I just don't think Enchanted Rose belongs in the lobby of a Victorian themed Beach Resort. I do think this bar would have been much more at home at the Riviera Resort.

Good point, the rose chandelier matches those in Topolino's Terrace.

RIP Mizner's...DW and I spent many many hours there. Yes it was old but it had charm.

 

[havoc315]

You bring up some interesting critiques here. Grand Floridian does book well. Pre shutdown it was rockin it with high occupany. Post reopening took a while to ramp up but eventually the demand got high enough that they literally opened up the concierge buildings as regular rooms to satisfy that demand. Whether or not that remains in play after the other deluxe's begin opening is to be see.

Only going to address the occupancy: It has not been strong. Not pre-shut down and not now.
There are countless guests who booked Art of Animation and POP who are being given free upgrades to Grand Floridian. There have been tons of "hidden" deals on Hotwire for 55% off Grand Floridian rooms.
And -- low occupancy is the exact reason they are converting 200 rooms to DVC. If they were booking those rooms at 90% at close to rack rates, they wouldn't be converting them to DVC.

Mid July: Grand Floridian with a "secret" discount, down to just $414 per night!

https://www.hotwire.com/hotels/details/MzEzNTg4NzUxODQ6MzIxMTc1MTY2OTQzOQ--?vt.GHD20=1

(hmmm, what other hotel has a 4.5 Expedia rating, that is 0.7 miles away from Magic Kingdom, that offers both standard view and theme park view rooms... what hotel could it be....)

The rack rate is $690 per night. plus tax! With Disney's 25% off for summer, it's $517 per night, for the 4 nights I selected.

So Disney is "officially" putting the Grand Floridian rooms on sale for 25% off: But they are secretly listing it at 40% off!!

If you're secretly selling the rooms at a 40% discount, that doesn't speak to strong demand and high occupancy.

 

[Kkar]

Good point, the rose chandelier matches those in Topolino's Terrace.

RIP Mizner's...DW and I spent many many hours there. Yes it was old but it had charm.

Totally agree with the Enchanted Rose; such a mismatch for the GF. We too spent many, many evenings (and a lot of dollars) at Mizners, seated at the bar, listening to the orchestra just a few feet away; it truly was a unique and special place, unlike any other bar/lounge. They could have kept it and spruced it up. If they wanted the additional space, they still could have expanded into the men's store for more seating. Maybe they could have even made Mizners a "secret society speakeasy" type place. Still seems like such a waste to just destroy it when there was so much potential to make it even more unique.

Getting back to Riviera, we have been enjoying the bar (and bartenders) at Topolino's. Don't care for the dining room itself, though. Too large and open, like they were going for a hybrid fancy dining room/convention room, and it comes up short for either (IMHO).

 

[Disone]

Good point, the rose chandelier matches those in Topolino's Terrace.

RIP Mizner's...DW and I spent many many hours there. Yes it was old but it had charm.

I love that you called out the chandeliers. I think they got a buy one get two special.

 

[Disone]

Only going to address the occupancy: It has not been strong. Not pre-shut down and not now.
There are countless guests who booked Art of Animation and POP who are being given free upgrades to Grand Floridian. There have been tons of "hidden" deals on Hotwire for 55% off Grand Floridian rooms.
And -- low occupancy is the exact reason they are converting 200 rooms to DVC. If they were booking those rooms at 90% at close to rack rates, they wouldn't be converting them to DVC.

Mid July: Grand Floridian with a "secret" discount, down to just $414 per night!

https://www.hotwire.com/hotels/details/MzEzNTg4NzUxODQ6MzIxMTc1MTY2OTQzOQ--?vt.GHD20=1

(hmmm, what other hotel has a 4.5 Expedia rating, that is 0.7 miles away from Magic Kingdom, that offers both standard view and theme park view rooms... what hotel could it be....)

The rack rate is $690 per night. plus tax! With Disney's 25% off for summer, it's $517 per night, for the 4 nights I selected.

So Disney is "officially" putting the Grand Floridian rooms on sale for 25% off: But they are secretly listing it at 40% off!!

If you're secretly selling the rooms at a 40% discount, that doesn't speak to strong demand and high occupancy.

It's been super strong up until covid and it's been stronger than expected after covid.
I would encourage everyone to understand that in this post covid world it is far more complex than they're offering discounts they must be struggling. They are offering discounts. They are not exclusive to the Grand. The grand is not struggling any more or any less than anything else on property. In fact it's probably doing better than most.

Thats all i have to say. I gave out some details which I probably should not have in those conversations and I was basically called a liar and a fraud for doing so. So I've already been raked through the coals about this on another thread.... No need to do it again.

 

[havoc315]

It's been super strong up until covid and it's been stronger than expected after covid. That's all I'm going to say about it. I've already been raked through the coals another thread about this. I don't need to go through it again.

I have no idea what your basis for that claim is. I know I've observed very low demand at Grand Floridian for the last 5+ years. They wouldn't be converting 200 rooms to DVC if demand was so strong pre-Covid.
Since Covid, I know as a fact -- demand for Grand Floridian has been way below the demand for the other open resorts. Again, which is why they are converting 200 rooms.

 

[Disone]

I have no idea what your basis for that claim is. I know I've observed very low demand at Grand Floridian for the last 5+ years. They wouldn't be converting 200 rooms to DVC if demand was so strong pre-Covid.
Since Covid, I know as a fact -- demand for Grand Floridian has been way below the demand for the other open resorts. Again, which is why they are converting 200 rooms.

Sorry but no. Again prior to the shutdown Grand Floridian was rocking the occupancy.

 

[havoc315]

Sorry but no. Again prior to the shutdown Grand Floridian was rocking the occupancy.

I suspect we are mixing apples and oranges. Disney does a great job "rocking the occupancy" at all their resorts: With pin codes, public discounts, secret discounts.
Grand Floridian has been very very dependent on aggressive discounting in order to "rock" their occupancy.

In 2018, my cousin got 50% off Grand Floridian for a holiday weekend, as an example.

 

[Disone]

I suspect we are mixing apples and oranges. Disney does a great job "rocking the occupancy" at all their resorts: With pin codes, public discounts, secret discounts.
Grand Floridian has been very very dependent on aggressive discounting in order to "rock" their occupancy.

In 2018, my cousin got 50% off Grand Floridian for a holiday weekend, as an example.

Apples to oranges? love it!!! Here you bring up a good point. Great even. How they get to rockin it may be called to question. And there you may have some points though the discounting was also not exclusive to the Grand. Same for now.

 

[havoc315]

Apples to oranges? love it!!! Here you bring up a good point. Great even. How they get to rockin it may be called to question. And there you may have some points though the discounting was also not exclusive to the Grand. Same for now.

Not exclusive to Grand Floridian, for sure. Which is why Animal Kingdom is still closed. And it's why Wilderness Lodge recently went through a huge DVC conversion.
But as things stand right now, among the deluxe resorts, Grand Floridian is where they are struggling to fill without deep discounting.
(Don't be surprised if more Animal Kingdom rooms get converted to DVC after they finish Grand Floridian).

 

[MikeyK72]

One other thing that I really liked about staying at the Riviera was they have two bocce courts. I wish all DVC resorts had them. The only others we have found so far is at BLT.

 

[Missing20K]

I'll take authenticity over grotesque caricature like the Boardwalk or Beach Club.

I feel this is an odd take, particularly in the context of a themed entertainment resort.

In themed entertainment, there is no true "authenticity". It's creating the illusion of such. Most importantly, it's about creating an architecture of reassurance. "Grotesque caricatures" are what help differentiate the real world from that of a manufactured one. Those caricatures are what gives the experience an aura of reassurance, as they are images and designs that are embedded within society's "collective" knowledge of the theme that is being explored.

I'm of the opinion that with regards to Riviera, they distilled those collective ideas to such a degree that they lost the reassurance they were (hopefully) attempting to create. They made white lightning out of a Bordeaux.