Riviera Pricing and Point charts

[GoofGoof]

Maybe it's just me, but BLT is easy to get in and out of even if not staying there. The lounge is harder, but the rest not so much.

Going to DHS, it might actually be easier for RR people get on at CBR. Just thinking outloud on that too.

Agreed on both points. At BLT half the time the door to the sky bridge in CR is propped open anyway and when it’s not it’s easy to just wait for someone to open it and follow them in. You can also get into the lobby pretty easy and walk around at will. Not sure why anyone would care to “sneak” into BLT anyway when there’s not much to see there. All of the action is in the Grand Concourse area in CR which is already open to the public. They do enforce access to Top of the World which is probably necessary.

Depending on how crowded it is when boarding it may be quicker and logistically easier to walk to CBR station from RR. In more down times or if there isn’t a line at RR station most people will probably just ride and transfer at CBR.

 

[xdan0920]

So on the Dis where there is a much more active DVC board, there's a thread going on questioning the legality of these resale restrictions on Riviera. And no just a general question, but a well researched and ultimately convincing argument that what they are doing is illegal.

@YorkshireT was making the case that this would be DVC2 and I agreed, because how else could they change the rules in such a way? Well it turns out it's not DVC2, and they just changed the rules on their own. Which, is probably illegal.

Multi-Site POS Revision Dated 01/19/19

History teaches us that major changes often have unintentional consequences. So we have the new restrictions. Most believe this is going to negatively effect resale values. Now I am not an investor and do not have the energy to do the math, but if the resale values are low enough is this not...

www.disboards.com

 

[eliza61nyc]

whew, I tried to follow along but unfortunately a lot of "legalise". not sure what they are saying the basis of the illegality is. Are they saying that based on their bwv documentation all dvc units must have all have access to the dvc reservation component? and if so has anyone seen actual Rivera sale documents explaining the restrictions?

lol I got lost at some thing called an appurtenance requirement.

 

[nickys]

So on the Dis where there is a much more active DVC board, there's a thread going on questioning the legality of these resale restrictions on Riviera. And no just a general question, but a well researched and ultimately convincing argument that what they are doing is illegal.

@YorkshireT was making the case that this would be DVC2 and I agreed, because how else could they change the rules in such a way? Well it turns out it's not DVC2, and they just changed the rules on their own. Which, is probably illegal.

Multi-Site POS Revision Dated 01/19/19

History teaches us that major changes often have unintentional consequences. So we have the new restrictions. Most believe this is going to negatively effect resale values. Now I am not an investor and do not have the energy to do the math, but if the resale values are low enough is this not...

www.disboards.com

I thought they filed an amendment to correct the error(s). But to be honest, just like with the points chart, whilst I have no doubt those who are arguing this is not allowed truly believe it, there are others who are convinced it is permitted.

That is the whole point of the new POS. It isn’t DVC Mark II, it is simply new restrictions on resale. That was evident as soon as the POS surfaced. The fact they erred at first, but then corrected it, shows that someone legally trained has clearly scrutinised it to identify the error.

And to be allowed to start selling, the filed POS presumably have to be approved under the timeshare laws. Those buying know what the restrictions are. And it doesn’t really affect anyone else, so I fail to see on what grounds any existing member can challenge it. It’s not like the points charts, where all existing members were affected.

Frankly if people want to work themselves into a frenzy again over this, that’s up to them.

 

[xdan0920]

And to be allowed to start selling, the filed POS presumably have to be approved under the timeshare laws.

This, while true, is essentially meaningless. It’s approved sure, but that just means it hasn’t been proved to be illegal, yet.

 

[nickys]

This, while true, is essentially meaningless. It’s approved sure, but that just means it hasn’t been proved to be illegal, yet.

Right ........

 

[xdan0920]

Right ........

Yeah you’re right. The eye roll emoji really got me. I’m sorry for talking bad about your friend DVC.

 

[nickys]

Yeah you’re right. The eye roll emoji really got me. I’m sorry for talking bad about your friend DVC.

Obviously you believe this is illegal. I don’t. But the attitude of “it just hasn’t been proved illegal yet” goes well beyond a difference of opinion. It’s a pretty strong opinion to hold. I’ve already said I don’t see how this affects a single existing owner. Enlighten me as to why you feel so strongly about it.

If I could, I would quite happily buy at Riviera. I know some people think about selling down the line, and what effect this will have on the resale price. My view is more of as long as I get use out of my contract, I don’t care about the resale price. So yes, I’m still 100% happy with my contract and with DVC.

I know of several owners who were quite adamant they weren’t going to buy, for one or two of them, this was the sticking point. But they’ve all been blown away with the tour that they've bought.

 

[xdan0920]

Obviously you believe this is illegal. I don’t. But the attitude of “it just hasn’t been proved illegal yet” goes well beyond a difference of opinion. It’s a pretty strong opinion to hold. I’ve already said I don’t see how this affects a single existing owner. Enlighten me as to why you feel so strongly about it.

If I could, I would quite happily buy at Riviera. I know some people think about selling down the line, and what effect this will have on the resale price. My view is more of as long as I get use out of my contract, I don’t care about the resale price. So yes, I’m still 100% happy with my contract and with DVC.

I know of several owners who were quite adamant they weren’t going to buy, for one or two of them, this was the sticking point. But they’ve all been blown away with the tour that they've bought.

I didn’t do the leg work. Go read the thread I linked. There’s lots of information.

As a legacy DVC owner this may or may not effect me depending on where it leads. But just like the point reallocation debacle, this move isn’t in the best interest of owners. I know some of you don’t care about these things, you get to stay at Disney World and your just happy with that. I was simply linking to that other thread for the people that do care how DVC treats it’s members.

 

[correcaminos]

Maybe I'm just over most DISers at this point, but those guys are not DVC legal so what they say means nothing. This is also the same group that was trying to get a lawsuit started when they didn't like the 2020 reallocations. Obviously not all members there are the same, but a lot of people there seem to be rather spoiled acting in their reactions to anything that DVC does at this point. The terms are pretty clear and something that they technically could with older resorts, do if they wanted to if they felt like they could fight a lot of things but they likely wouldn't win long-term and that could be a lawsuit, but with the new resort? I don't understand why they're being such whiny little brats about it and threatening lawsuits again. The person that everyone is following even said that they believe they are right. They don't know that they are right. They can go ahead and father cease and desist and whatever, I just think they're being naive and what they expect DVD to do about it.

Do you want my honest opinion on what is more lawsuit worthy? The OKW quit claim and extension dates for the resort. It goes to show you, that they can change things without your permission. They may or may not do it in the best way. They just have to prove that it's in the best interest of the owners. There is nothing in a resale restriction that goes against best interest of the owner. At least not really. If you're going to try and claim "well resale prices will be low," then you're no longer an invested owner so who cares? I do care what DVC does, but sometimes the sense of entitlement I see with so many people out there regarding DVC is appalling to me. People need to stop acting like they are being personally affected by these moves. If you don't like it, sell your DVC. Compared to other timeshares, DVC is still doing better.

 

[xdan0920]

I do care what DVC does, but sometimes the sense of entitlement I see with so many people out there regarding DVC is appalling to me. People need to stop acting like they are being personally affected by these moves. If you don't like it, sell your DVC. Compared to other timeshares, DVC is still doing better.

I was with you till this.

This isn’t a sense of entitlement at least not an unfounded one.

Disney didn’t give these people free contracts. These contracts cost a fortune and we continue to spend a fortune year after year. Hell yes I feel entitled to a certain level of treatment. Hell yes I feel entitled to not be jerked around. It appalls me to watch owners just eat whatever crap sandwich Disney tries to serve them.

 

[eliza61nyc]

So as with many things involving Disney a lot depends on ones perspective. Now from the linked thread the best I could get is that they are thinking of suing on the basis that this "might" hurt resale values, which in turn "might" hurt/affect owners. I could 100% be off the mark but that's what my take is.
I do question what the foundation for this suit is and what would a "favorable" outcome be? no restriction on Riveria resales? future dvc properties?

Of course a contract is extremely expensive but there was no implied guarantee of value when I purchased my ownership. like any other piece of real estate the value of it can go up or down.

I've always been pretty consistent in my belief that timeshares are not investment vehicles and that to purchase one with the mindset of what it will be worth when I resell is a fool's errand. So for me, I purchased to get tomorrows accommodations at todays price. If I sold today and broke even I would absolutely be ok with that because I hit my break even number about 3 trips back.

What do I feel entitled to:

• transparency in how my dues are being spent
• clean and well maintained properties
• Disney standard service when I am at the property
• The availability of any published perks or discounts with the understanding that they can be changed or discontinued at any time.

I'm still not convinced that the restriction on Riveria resale will actually hurt the value of dvc .

 

[correcaminos]

I was with you till this.

This isn’t a sense of entitlement at least not an unfounded one.

Disney didn’t give these people free contracts. These contracts cost a fortune and we continue to spend a fortune year after year. Hell yes I feel entitled to a certain level of treatment. Hell yes I feel entitled to not be jerked around. It appalls me to watch owners just eat whatever crap sandwich Disney tries to serve them.

Yes, you are entitled to some things. The entitlement mentality is strong with many DVCers - and what I mean is thinking they are owed things outside of what they contractually paid for.

I am very active on DVC only groups/forums and I see it above and beyond what we are owed with our dues and such. I've seen people say that they are owed perks to their family members who are not on a contract even.

We are entitled to a room, that is maintained and our fees being paid for things at a reasonable price (and there are auditors that do that). I am not really owed much more in terms of treatment outside of standard Disney ways.

I've been an owner for 15 years now and if you read my posts, I'm very practical about my DVC. What DVD does is what they will do. As long as it doesn't affect my actual ownership, I won't whine or cry. People balked at the idea of tiers and Disney was good in that they didn't want to make someone feel lesser for only owning 100 pts vs 300 vs 1000. Yet they are finding ways to distinguish between their direct buys (where they make money) and resales. I have no issues with this. If the extras to buy in direct are worth it, I'll pay for it.

Now something I'm quite annoyed with is the brand new $195 fee they added on closing direct. Total money grab for those who want to split contracts into smaller bit. Makes direct buying less likely for me (oops on their part).

With the resale restrictions, no one is getting jerked around though. They are making it totally clear. I cannot get bothered about it. I've always said here expecting a certain amount for resale is not a wise thing to do and even more now than before.

 

[nickys]

Booking opened today for existing DVC owners who added on at Riviera.

As of April 16th, new DVC owners who bought in at Riviera can start booking.

Everyone else can start booking May 16th, which is 7 months out from the confirmed opening date.

And Tower Studios are booking fast. Perhaps expected since they are the cheapest rooms, but still interesting.

 

[TongaToast21]

Soooo..... has anyone bought RR?

 

[nickys]

Another question-- has anyone heard about what the next DVC resort might be next? Could they add some DVC units to CS or CBR? Has anyone ever heard if they plan to add units to the Yacht Club? I think that's the only deluxe resort that doesn't have DVC attched to it, I think? I'm not for sure. But has anybody heard anything?

The next one is on the old River Country site. It’s called Reflections, aka the retirement home for elderly DVCers! It’s meant to be nature inspired but we’ll see. It’ll be like AKL, with both resort rooms and DVC villas.

 

[nickys]

Soooo..... has anyone bought RR?

There are several Mouseowners who have bought. Some of them despite being absolutely adamant they wouldn’t be doing so ..... until they did the model room tour. A couple of them have already booked, one for over New Years I think.

 

[correcaminos]

Another question-- has anyone heard about what the next DVC resort might be next? Could they add some DVC units to CS or CBR? Has anyone ever heard if they plan to add units to the Yacht Club? I think that's the only deluxe resort that doesn't have DVC attched to it, I think? I'm not for sure. But has anybody heard anything?

It has been confirmed that Reflections at Ft. Wilderness will be next.

YC has been rumored to get DVC. Other rumors were PVB2. That said the YC rumor is quite old and they've moved on from the CBR location (RR) to Ft. Wilderness (Reflections). No word on any PVB2 expansions either.

After all the reconstruction at YC for the convention areas, I'm not sure well see a DVC resort there anytime soon. Maybe closer to BCV ending but we'll see.

 

[GoofGoof]

Thanks for the response, Nickys. I knew about Reflections but I don't think I'll have the need to stay there either. What I am really hoping for is for them to add some units to Yacht Club at some point. I have always wondered why they never did both when they did the DVC for Beach Club. I looked at buying resale for Beach Club but I don't like the prices for most of the contracts when there's only about 20-something years left. I'd rather they be more around 40 or so...I would have already bought one if that was the case. So here's hoping Yacht Club joins the DVC in the future.

The EPCOT parking lot rumor seemed to be likely a little while ago but seems less so today. These things change so much it’s hard to tell.

Others I’ve heard is BLT 2.0 over the other garden wing and also an addition to Poly. Not converting more rooms but a new build (mid-rise tower). There was also a rumor a few years back that they were considering converting all of BW to DVC. I think Disney has acknowledged that they need additional hotel rooms not less so I would hope/expect the next few projects to be additions not conversions of hotel rooms.

 

[GoofGoof]

Per a DVCNews article, DVC direct sales for April were the highest in almost 6 years. The biggest driver was not Riviera sales but sales of Copper Creek which had its 3rd highest points sold in a month. Riviera sold 59K points which is less than 1% of the 6.7 million points available. Apparently that’s not uncommon for the first month of sales as both CCV and Poly sold 52K and 61K in their first months.

I think it’s probably easy to jump to the conclusion that some people may be scooping up CCV points now because of resale restrictions on Riviera but I think we need a few more months of sales data to reach a valid conclusion.

Direct Sales Soar in April 2019 | DVCNews.com - The essential Disney Vacation Club resource!

The influx of sales for Disney's Riviera Resort, as well as very strong sales for Copper Creek Villas & Cabins at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge and several older DVC resorts, yielded the best month f

www.dvcnews.com