Riviera Pricing and Point charts

[xdan0920]

I find it interesting that people see the fact that this resort was built on a portion of former Caribbean Beach land as a negative. I have heard that sentiment a lot in various places. Is it the fact that you can see the other resort across the lake as a negative, or is the land somehow “moderate” and not “deluxe”? IMHO the fact that it’s connnected to CBR via a lakefront walkway is a nice bonus for the resort. It expands dining options (and swimming if you want to pool hop) and allows the resort to have access to some shared recreation amenities like bike rentals, playground area and fishing gear rentals (do they still rent boats at CBR?).

I don't see it as a negative. I just didn't like the narrative that was being pushed that it wasn't connected to CBR. It's built right in the middle of CBR, of course they are connected.

Anyhoo

 

[DisneyJeff]

As @helenabear said there’s 2 possible outcomes. The Riviera resale restrictions will either drive down Riviera resale prices or it won’t. If the prices are driven down (which I think they will be down compared to the popular legacy DVC resorts) that negatively impacts all Riviera owners who want to resell their points but also makes it cheaper to buy in to Riviera resale if you want to buy in and plan to only stay at Riviera anyway.

I generally tend to agree that the resale changes won’t have much of an impact on direct sales for Riviera. A large portion of direct buyers don’t even know the resale market exists and out of those that do I hear many owners say they are never planning on selling their points anyway so lower resale value won’t likely impact their decision. For me personally, I have a hard time predicting what may happen over the next 50 years and how my or my kid’s tastes may change. I like knowing the resale market exists as a safety net even though I have zero intention today to sell my points.

I could be wrong, but I think I heard/read that when Riviera is sold resale, it will not be able to be used at the original "legacy" DVC resorts, however the points will be able to be used at the Riviera Resort, the Reflections Resort, and any other DVC resort that comes afterwards. If you are looking to sell your Riviera points within the next 5 years of so, this may be an issue, but think about 10 or 15 years from now. There could be a handful of resorts that will be available to use these points. Plus, it will be the newest DVC resorts on property. These could be more valuable than buying into one of the legacy resorts resale. Plus, the contracts for the legacy resorts will expire before these newer resorts. Less years for your $$$.

 

[nickys]

Who do you think this is catering to? Retiree/ Baby Boomers looking for a luxurious escape? That seems the most logical to me given the resort's draws

No need for a Fantasia themed splash pad for them though.

For me, the appeal is in part the gondola and dining, and also both art themes. Firstly the “classic” Disney characters such as the pictures of the Aristocats in the rooms and that Fantasia themed splash pad even though my boys are now adults! And secondly the story of Walt’s travels in Europe, for the same reason I love the room at WL with the pics of Walt and his trains, and why I would never miss One Man’s Dream at DHS.

Are people really asking for smaller rooms that are the same amount of points as larger rooms?

Haha! They are however wanting studios for just two people. Which is exactly what they have delivered. The points charts for them is high, but the market for these is likely those who have been members for a long time, with a lot of points, who often take their children and grandchildren, but also like short breaks on their own. For those short trips, with some laid back activities, those studios will be great for them. My guess is that they will be all but impossible to book except right at the 11 month window.

Which in turn is why this will sell. Not just new members, but those who can afford to drop a few thousand on maybe 50 or 100 points to add on. And use them for a Riviera stay as one of several over a couple of years. Not the once a year family trip, the 4 day off peak getaway.

 

[Lensman]

This. Contradicts...

This.

If you think buying Riviera resale will save money, then you believe that Riviera resale will be depressed compared to other DVC. Anyhoo, I guess we shall see.

I don't think it's a contradiction. Let me explain since you seem to have misunderstood my argument.

So this hypothetical buyer wants to stay at Riviera and decides to buy DVC. But rather than buy direct at $200, they want to save money and so instead buy resale at around $150. Since they want to stay at Riviera, they don't really have the option of buying resale anywhere else - in particular, they don't have the option of saving lots of money by buying resale at OKW, SSR, or BRV @$100 and hoping for openings at 7 months.

So the argument is that though there's obviously downward price pressure on resale at Riviera due to not being able to book, say, GFV, there would be some upward price pressure due to resale buyers who want to stay at Riviera only being able to buy Riviera if they want to stay there.

That said, I do think that overall, there will be downward price pressure on resale due to this change. In particular, the price pressure from "buy where you want to stay" is already reflected in current resale prices - with Beach Club and Boardwalk being in high demand because people want to stay there vs SSR and OKW being comparatively lower demand.

 

[nickys]

I could be wrong, but I think I heard/read that when Riviera is sold resale, it will not be able to be used at the original "legacy" DVC resorts, however the points will be able to be used at the Riviera Resort, the Reflections Resort, and any other DVC resort that comes afterwards. If you are looking to sell your Riviera points within the next 5 years of so, this may be an issue, but think about 10 or 15 years from now. There could be a handful of resorts that will be available to use these points. Plus, it will be the newest DVC resorts on property. These could be more valuable than buying into one of the legacy resorts resale. Plus, the contracts for the legacy resorts will expire before these newer resorts. Less years for your $$$.

According to the POS, the Riviera resale points will only be able to be used at Riviera, not any future resorts. The same will be true for each future resort.

But that will be fine for some people. The ones for whom this isn’t their one and done purchase, but those who are adding on another 100 points.

 

[correcaminos]

I don't see it as a negative. I just didn't like the narrative that was being pushed that it wasn't connected to CBR. It's built right in the middle of CBR, of course they are connected.

Anyhoo

SSR is connected to OKW by walkways. They aren't the same. POR/FQ are connected to both by water. Not the same resorts again.

I can super duper easily walk from Polynesian to GF. Same with Wilderness Lodge & Ft. Wilderness. Boardwalk to Y&BC to Swan & Dolphin etc. A walkway does not equate those any more than CBR will be connected to RR. Who cares if you might be able to walk from one to the other? Does not mean they are the same. Or even close to it.

According to the POS, the Riviera resale points will only be able to be used at Riviera, not any future resorts. The same will be true for each future resort.

But that will be fine for some people. The ones for whom this isn’t their one and done purchase, but those who are adding on another 100 points.

Well said, though for some if they love Riviera, they will only want RR. So not a big deal to them either. Not everyone buys for the idea of staying all over. I know many (both resale and direct) who buy only for one resort. Never go anywhere else. Can't say I am like that but they are out there!

 

[xdan0920]

SSR is connected to OKW by walkways. They aren't the same. POR/FQ are connected to both by water. Not the same resorts again.

If they knocked down the Turtle Pond area of Old Key West and build a Key Largo Tower that would be the same as this Riviera situation. Fine. It’s a separate resort, but it’s not some totally standalone thing.

 

[correcaminos]

If they knocked down the Turtle Pond area of Old Key West and build a Key Largo Tower that would be the same as this Riviera situation. Fine. It’s a separate resort, but it’s not some totally standalone thing.

Well they can't do that until 2057....

And yes, it's stand alone. I have zero intention of going over to my most disliked moderate if I stay at RR. Just like I can avoid going to any of those I mentioned that are walkable.

It is a stand alone thing, and really not sure why you are arguing otherwise. It has it's own check in, parking, restaurants, buses, and even it's own darn Gondola station.

 

[xdan0920]

Well they can't do that until 2057....

And yes, it's stand alone. I have zero intention of going over to my most disliked moderate if I stay at RR. Just like I can avoid going to any of those I mentioned that are walkable.

It is a stand alone thing, and really not sure why you are arguing otherwise. It has it's own check in, parking, restaurants, buses, and even it's own darn Gondola station.

You’re missing the point. I’ll not continue to hammer at this. It’s built in the middle of Caribbean Beach, and CB is becoming itself more of a destination. If you don’t think these two resorts are connected then we just will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Lensman]

You’re missing the point. I’ll not continue to hammer at this. It’s built in the middle of Caribbean Beach, and CB is becoming itself more of a destination. If you don’t think these two resorts are connected then we just will have to agree to disagree.

I agree that the Riviera is built in the middle of CBR (such that such a thing is possible for a circular or u-shaped resort with a lake in the middle, lol). I think what @helenabear is looking for from you is more detail on what you mean by "connected". For example:

1. It's obviously not connected as closely as the new CSR tower is connected to the old CSR buildings - sharing check-in, pools, amenities, etc.
2. It's obviously physically adjacent, like Beach Club is adjacent to Yacht Club.
3. Will Riviera and CBR share housekeeping?
4. As other conspiracy theorists hypothesize, is TWDC hoping to pawn off some of CBR's expenses onto Riviera dues-payers?

Do you really care about any of these potential details? Or perhaps it makes more sense for you to just state what you think is the significance or importance of the two resorts connectedness is and why it offends you, if it does.

Or have we all just inflated a tiny irrelevant molehill into a mountain that neither side really cares all that much about, in the spirit of polarized conflict, contention, and the desire to prove everyone inconsistent or contradictory? Lol

What do you mean by "becoming itself more of a destination"? I suspect it has more significance than I can discern from the surface of the statement.

 

[correcaminos]

You’re missing the point. I’ll not continue to hammer at this. It’s built in the middle of Caribbean Beach, and CB is becoming itself more of a destination. If you don’t think these two resorts are connected then we just will have to agree to disagree.

I am not missing the point. I simply think you are viewing it totally differently than any of the other resorts I mentioned. GF, Polynesian, Ft Wilderness, Wilderness Lodge, BW, Y&BC, Swan, and Dolphin are all stand alone resorts. There is far more than walkability to a resort that would make it connected to another. Heck they even have Port Orleans Riverside and French Quarter separate. That is why I see them as separate, and not quite sure why you keep saying they are connected.

I also don't understand what you mean by making Caribbean Beach more of a destination. They did some updates, but I don't see them making it more of a destination than any other moderate out there. Truth be told if we want to talk about a moderate that's becoming more of a destination, let's look at Coronado Springs.

 

[xdan0920]

Or have we all just inflated a tiny irrelevant molehill into a mountain that neither side really cares all that much about, in the spirit of polarized conflict, contention, and the desire to prove everyone inconsistent or contradictory? Lol

Probably this. It’s purely academic from my end. I own at OKW, and with these point charts, can’t see myself spending much time here.

What do you mean by "becoming itself more of a destination"? I suspect it has more significance than I can discern from the surface of the statement.

destination is probably the wrong word. I just mean they updated CB fairly extensively, and with the addition of Riviera, this is more of a resort complex then two stand alone resorts. Thereby making it more of a “destination” as it were.

 

[xdan0920]

I am not missing the point. I simply think you are viewing it totally differently than any of the other resorts I mentioned. GF, Polynesian, Ft Wilderness, Wilderness Lodge, BW, Y&BC, Swan, and Dolphin are all stand alone resorts. There is far more than walkability to a resort that would make it connected to another. Heck they even have Port Orleans Riverside and French Quarter separate. That is why I see them as separate, and not quite sure why you keep saying they are connected.

I also don't understand what you mean by making Caribbean Beach more of a destination. They did some updates, but I don't see them making it more of a destination than any other moderate out there. Truth be told if we want to talk about a moderate that's becoming more of a destination, let's look at Coronado Springs.

Ok. I understand Disney views them separately. I view them as part of the same resort complex, bc, well, they are.

I don’t look at POR and FQ as separate resorts. I don’t view Y&BC as separate. I don’t view Swan and Dolphin as separate.

 

[Minthorne]

It's just a gondola. Monorails are cool. Gondolas are everywhere.

I ride a monorail a few times a year. I haven't been in a gondola since 2009 at San Diego Zoo.

 

[correcaminos]

Ok. I understand Disney views them separately. I view them as part of the same resort complex, bc, well, they are.

I don’t look at POR and FQ as separate resorts. I don’t view Y&BC as separate. I don’t view Swan and Dolphin as separate.

But you view BW as separate?

Yacht & Beach is only one that is shared, because it has shared facilities & amenities. Notice I put them together too. However they were built that way.

Swalphin is far more complex in ties. Sorta shared, sorta not. They were actually different divisions of the same parent company.

Port Orleans were sister resorts with different names. Similar but not same complex.

I think trying to argue it's the same is not wise though. You claim it's academic, but to me it's personal views on your part. So I suggest you stop trying to make it that way for RR and CBR. They are not related at all other than being neighbors.

 

[xdan0920]

But you view BW as separate?

Yacht & Beach is only one that is shared, because it has shared facilities & amenities. Notice I put them together too. However they were built that way.

Swalphin is far more complex in ties. Sorta shared, sorta not. They were actually different divisions of the same parent company.

Port Orleans were sister resorts with different names. Similar but not same complex.

I think trying to argue it's the same is not wise though. You claim it's academic, but to me it's personal views on your part. So I suggest you stop trying to make it that way for RR and CBR. They are not related at all other than being neighbors.

You are the most pedantic person I have ever come across in my entire life. Just out of curiosity, what do you do for a living?

Fwiw, you aren’t bringing any new information to the table here. I think pretty much everyone knows the technicalities regarding these resorts.

However, in a practical sense, they are connected ie part of a shared resort complex.

 

[correcaminos]

You are the most pedantic person I have ever come across in my entire life. Just out of curiosity, what do you do for a living?

Fwiw, you aren’t bringing any new information to the table here. I think pretty much everyone knows the technicalities regarding these resorts.

However, in a practical sense, they are connected ie part of a shared resort complex.

I hope you have a nice day or whatever is left of your day. I am sorry I offended you so much you had to insult me truly.

 

[xdan0920]

I hope you have a nice day or whatever is left of your day. I am sorry I offended you so much you had to insult me truly.

I assure you I am not offended.

 

[Lensman]

I hope you have a nice day or whatever is left of your day. I am sorry I offended you so much you had to insult me truly.

In my profession, being pedantic is a feature, not a bug! It's not an insult, even though it might be meant as such! Lol

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I'm sorry, but I could not imagine buying in so I could have the pleasure of staying in a room with a Murphy bed. Who honestly would want to come back to your room at the end of the night and fold down your bed? If I was sleeping on a boat docked on crescent lake, sure maybe, but a hotel? For the same price I can be in a real studio room at OKW? The restaurants and all the other simply do not make up for it. The only way and I mean only way was If those studios were by themselves and there was like special lounges with happy hours or continental breakfast, maybe a communal kitchen like a hostel lol. that you got access to for staying there. Hey who knows could be in its future.