RFID for Little Mermaid and more

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I HOPE they don't plan on tying Fastpass to RFID, because I plan on COMPLETELY opting out of RFID but am a big Fastpass fan. Hopefully they will still keep the paper system around for those who don't use the RFID. If not, I guess I'll be getting one of those RFID-shielding sleeves to store the chip in when I don't need it to get my FPs, to protect my privacy. (if they ever use RFID to replace the physical Fastpass)

Can I ask a serious question?

What "privacy" exactly are you worried about being violated?

Are you worried Disney is going to know what your favorite attractions are? Or how many times you use the restroom? Or how long you sit at a bench eating lunch?

I ask because I can't think of one tiny bit of information about what I do on Disney property that I'd care them knowing about. It's one thing if you had to walk around with RFID on you for the rest of your life, no matter where you go, but I can't see how logging your activities in a theme park really has any effect on anything.

As I said above, the whole technology is pretty non-interesting to me, I just don't see a real use or need for it, but on the other hand I can't come up with any "secret, private data" that they'd be able to get from knowing where you have been in the park.
 

David S.

Member
It's the principle of the thing, more than anything else, and not any specific "worry", as you put it. What I do and where I'm going is MY business, and the idea of being tracked like "Big Brother" and/or having a file compiled of my habits, likes, or dislikes just feels creepy to me. Your mileage may very. It's certainly nothing to worry about now, because we don't know how they will implement it. I was just saying if they ever DO use it for tracking/data mining purposes and the only way to get FPs is to participate in RFID, I will shield mine in one of the blocking sleeves like these below*, to prevent them from tracking and/or profiling me without my consent. Problem solved.

And actually, the main reason I wanted to mention those sleeves was so that if OTHER posters/readers had any privacy concerns, then they would feel better knowing there was a "workaround."

Obviously, if you are not required to use RFID to get a FP (and this was only speculation by another poster), it's even more of a non-issue, because than I won't participate in the program at all! (as Raven said above, you can opt not to use it)

*http://www.idstronghold.com/Secure-Sleeve-for-Passports-IDSH1002-001-/productinfo/IDSH1002-001/

http://rfid-shield.com/products.php
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Thanks for explaining.

As I said, personally Disney can have whatever data they want about me and how I use their parks. It would be one thing if it were part of my daily life, but while I'm in the parks they are welcome to track me as much as they wish.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Thanks for explaining.

As I said, personally Disney can have whatever data they want about me and how I use their parks. It would be one thing if it were part of my daily life, but while I'm in the parks they are welcome to track me as much as they wish.

Yeah, same here. If a company wants to know how I use their product, then they are welcome to it. The end result would be a better product more suited to my needs.

People act like there's some dramatically lit surveillance room full of cameras with guys in dark uniforms watching you and "tracking" your movements as you eat popcorn and pull a Fastpass for Peter Pan. That's not what happens. What happens with RFID tag info is your habits get churned into an annual report with the 30 Million other people who visited WDW that year, and you show up as part of a pie chart on a PowerPoint slide.

But there are honestly some people out there who think companies "track" them and they worry about WalMart putting RFID tags in the underwear aisle to track inventory, as if WalMart is going to spy on their underwear drawer at home.

People who worry about this kind of stuff rank up there somewhere between people who believe the government is seeding the atmosphere with deadly chemicals in "Chemtrails", and those who think Elvis faked his death and is still alive and hanging out in the Jungle Room at Graceland. :rolleyes:

You want me to carry an RFID tag with me on my vacation Disney? Gladly! I don't care one bit. I'll tape it to my inner thigh for the whole week I'm at WDW, and not give a darn.
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
he was referring to DCA's Mermaid...not WDW
How do you figure that? I take you the the original post:
I work for an RFID company and we recently had a conversation about our internal product launches and the FLE and Magic Kingdom were discussed. Disney will be officially announcing where our technology will be located (what rides) after Labor Day weekend. From what I have heard there will be a test ride that is already running used for a proof of concept (pooh seems to be the target) and it will ultimately land in Little Mermaid for launch. If all goes well i get to be involved in the design and deployment of the system. I will update as I know more. I don't forsee the POC being ready until late this year, early next year and the LM ride won't happen until we get signoff on the technology, plus the building is a sand pit with footings now.
(bolded mine)

Where do you find references to DCA?
 

toolsnspools

Well-Known Member
That's not true. That presentation to Iger will be all about my trip to Disney and how I thought the wait for Soarin' was too long, and the fries needed more salt at the Electric Umbrella. It will be followed by a personal phone call (during dinner of course) to ensure that the reams of personal data they now hold about my bathroom visits are accurate. They will pre-book my next Disney visit and automatically deduct my AP purchase just after they raise the prices again. Crush will not just be talking to my kids by name, he'll insist that they go back to whining about not getting the Mickey hat at the last shop we visited because it will know that I generally give in after 30 minutes of whining and so far they've only whined for 25. At least at the end of my Disney day it will automatically open the hotel room door for me and turn down the bed so when I drop from exhaustion I won't sleep on top of the comforter.

:p
 

raven

Well-Known Member
It's the principle of the thing, more than anything else, and not any specific "worry", as you put it. What I do and where I'm going is MY business, and the idea of being tracked like "Big Brother" and/or having a file compiled of my habits, likes, or dislikes just feels creepy to me. Your mileage may very. It's certainly nothing to worry about now, because we don't know how they will implement it. I was just saying if they ever DO use it for tracking/data mining purposes and the only way to get FPs is to participate in RFID, I will shield mine in one of the blocking sleeves like these below*, to prevent them from tracking and/or profiling me without my consent. Problem solved.

And actually, the main reason I wanted to mention those sleeves was so that if OTHER posters/readers had any privacy concerns, then they would feel better knowing there was a "workaround."

Obviously, if you are not required to use RFID to get a FP (and this was only speculation by another poster), it's even more of a non-issue, because than I won't participate in the program at all! (as Raven said above, you can opt not to use it)

*http://www.idstronghold.com/Secure-Sleeve-for-Passports-IDSH1002-001-/productinfo/IDSH1002-001/

http://rfid-shield.com/products.php

Ok, calm down. Do you know how RFID chips are read? You have to put them almost directly on the sensor for them to read it. Having said that you don't have to worry about being tracked when you go to the bathroom. :lol:

And for the record, Disney already knows what you are doing anyway. There are plenty hidden security cameras and plain-clothed security all over the property. The only information they want to collect is guest patterns (flow, spending, eating, etc.) that will only help improve your experience in the future. As I said before, how much information you put on the chip will be up to you. Great things are being planned for this project and certain elements of it have never been used by companies before.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Ok, calm down. Do you know how RFID chips are read? You have to put them almost directly on the sensor for them to read it. Having said that you don't have to worry about being tracked when you go to the bathroom. :lol:

And for the record, Disney already knows what you are doing anyway. There are plenty hidden security cameras and plain-clothed security all over the property. The only information they want to collect is guest patterns (flow, spending, eating, etc.) that will only help improve your experience in the future. As I said before, how much information you put on the chip will be up to you. Great things are being planned for this project and certain elements of it have never been used by companies before.

I think Disney can and will do great things with this technology. It is an integral aspect of the transportation system I am armchair imagineering. My concern is what this technology is being developed for use in the real world and by people who are not honest brokers. Disney is not spending 1.5 billion so Mickey can greet you by name. They are developing it for others or they plan to sell the software. The word "Orwellian" comes to mind.

PS- The idea that the cards have to be put right next to the "reader" is a deliberate myth that is being forwarded to calm folk's legitimate fears. The "readers" can be made as electronically sensitive as needed. I would think that even those blocking sleeves will not have any effect on the most high tech receiving devices.

Danger Will Robinson. Danger. :cool:
 

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
You do think you want Disney tracking you, I am sure they already do and they do not need RFID.

Every time you enter a park you are being tracked.
Every time you use a FastPass you are being tracked.
Every time you open the door on your hotel room you are being tracked.
Every time you make a dinner reservation you are being tracked
Every time you make a purchase at a gift shop using your room key you are being tracked.

The RFID is just going to make it easier for you and Disney.

I can walk up to RFID gate at the park and not have to show a ticket.
I can see walking up to a FastPass machine and I don't have to dig for my ticket.
I walk up to the checkin counter for dinner and the person say welcome Mr. _______ your table for 4 is ready.
Etc. Etc.

Good or bad they all already collecting as much information as possible on you and what you do at the parks.
 
Doesn't Disney track our every move already?

Think about it, if you are a visitor that uses your room card to charge purchases, or for the dining plan. Disney can tell what park you when to, where you ate and what you bought.

We check in online now so they know who we are and our addresses and phone numbers.

We go through turn styles so they know what rides we frequent.

RFID is just a more advanced system.
 

David S.

Member
People act like there's some dramatically lit surveillance room full of cameras with guys in dark uniforms watching you and "tracking" your movements as you eat popcorn and pull a Fastpass for Peter Pan.

I never said (or thought) that at all.

But there are honestly some people out there who think companies "track" them and they worry about WalMart putting RFID tags in the underwear aisle to track inventory, as if WalMart is going to spy on their underwear drawer at home.

I never said that, or thought that, either.

People who worry about this kind of stuff rank up there somewhere between people who believe the government is seeding the atmosphere with deadly chemicals in "Chemtrails", and those who think Elvis faked his death and is still alive and hanging out in the Jungle Room at Graceland.:rolleyes:

Real nice, to portray those who would rather not participate in RFID as "paranoid" or delusional.

First, no one is "worrying" about anything. I merely stated that if one HAS to participate to get a Fastpass, and would prefer not to be tracked or have a "profile" of their likes, dislikes, or habits created (presumably for future marketing purposes), they could get a shield sleeve. I was trying to be POSITIVE that there are ways around it.

You want me to carry an RFID tag with me on my vacation Disney? Gladly! I don't care one bit. I'll tape it to my inner thigh for the whole week I'm at WDW, and not give a darn.

That's your perogative. It makes me uncomfortable, but not in a "paranoid" way. More in the way that if Nielsen asked me to attach a box to my TV to keep track of what I was watching, I would decline. NOT because of having anything to hide, because I don't watch anything dirty. Just in the way that what I watch is MY business only. It's that simple. Knowing that your tastes are being constantly monitored and/or compiled would create the sense that someone else is aware of your existence, and keeping track of what you do, (or in this case, watch on TV) which to me feels creepy.

Ok, calm down.

OK, I was never uncalm.

Do you know how RFID chips are read? You have to put them almost directly on the sensor for them to read it. Having said that you don't have to worry about being tracked when you go to the bathroom. :lol:

I NEVER said I was "worried" about anything, including "being tracked in the bathroom". The bathroom example was someone else's example, not mine. All I ever CALMLY said was I was going to opt-out of participating in the system, and that if you would ever be required to participate in order to keep using FP, I'd get a shield. Like I said, I mainly mentioned the shield sleeve things in case other readers had concerns, and would feel better about the shields.


And for the record, Disney already knows what you are doing anyway. There are plenty hidden security cameras and plain-clothed security all over the property.

True. Plain close security don't bother me, and the cameras are there to assist them in preventing criminal activity, so they don't bother me (unless the're in the bathroom stalls, which I seriously doubt ;) ). But the cameras are looking at crowds in general, and I doubt they zoom in on any one individual and follow them around the parks unless they have reason to believe that person could be suspicious. Which is a LOT different than potentially compiling consumer "profiles", possibly for marketing purposes - which I ALWAYS opt out of. You know how much solicitory mail I get addressed in my name at my home address? ZERO!


As I said before, how much information you put on the chip will be up to you

Right, and you also said you wouldn't be required to get a chip at all, which I reffered to above as a POSITIVE thing. All I EVER said was if FP was some day set up where you have to participate in the RFID system, I'd get a shield. And that if you didn't need to get RFID to get FP, I'd opt-out completely.

I think the pro-RFID crowd have seriously overeacted to my comments and concerns, which I wouldn't have even posted in the first place if it would not have been suggested to make FP part of the system!

And I was mainly posting out of curiousity about how FP would work in such as system (which no one has commented on yet), and the shield comment was an offhand comment I made just to show that it was possible to participate in RFID (if required to get a FP) and still mask your movements if you didn't want them to be tracked. Geez...
 

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
Now after all that is said, here is what I would like to see done with RFID.

You would enter a ride that has many different combinations of start, middle, and end. Your RFID chip would record your visit and what combinations of the ride you experienced. The next time you ride the same ride it would know what you did the last time and make sure that this ride would be different.

So you could ride the same ride many times and it would be different each time.

If Disney can do something like that, than I am would not mind them counting how many restrooms I go to.
 

SOLISIMO

Member
It's the principle of the thing, more than anything else, and not any specific "worry", as you put it. What I do and where I'm going is MY business, and the idea of being tracked like "Big Brother" and/or having a file compiled of my habits, likes, or dislikes just feels creepy to me. Your mileage may very. It's certainly nothing to worry about now, because we don't know how they will implement it. I was just saying if they ever DO use it for tracking/data mining purposes and the only way to get FPs is to participate in RFID, I will shield mine in one of the blocking sleeves like these below*, to prevent them from tracking and/or profiling me without my consent. Problem solved.

And actually, the main reason I wanted to mention those sleeves was so that if OTHER posters/readers had any privacy concerns, then they would feel better knowing there was a "workaround."

Obviously, if you are not required to use RFID to get a FP (and this was only speculation by another poster), it's even more of a non-issue, because than I won't participate in the program at all! (as Raven said above, you can opt not to use it)

*http://www.idstronghold.com/Secure-Sleeve-for-Passports-IDSH1002-001-/productinfo/IDSH1002-001/


http://rfid-shield.com/products.php

You might as well live in a cave 1000 feet below the earth with enough saltine crackers and water:lookaroun
 

David S.

Member
You do think you want Disney tracking you, I am sure they already do and they do not need RFID.

Every time you enter a park you are being tracked.
Every time you use a FastPass you are being tracked.
Every time you open the door on your hotel room you are being tracked.
Every time you make a dinner reservation you are being tracked
Every time you make a purchase at a gift shop using your room key you are being tracked.

The RFID is just going to make it easier for you and Disney.

I can walk up to RFID gate at the park and not have to show a ticket.
I can see walking up to a FastPass machine and I don't have to dig for my ticket.
I walk up to the checkin counter for dinner and the person say welcome Mr. _______ your table for 4 is ready.
Etc. Etc.

Good or bad they all already collecting as much information as possible on you and what you do at the parks.

Good points, although in my case, since I'm a seasonal local who doesn't need to use room keys, all they "track" is when I enter a park, and when I swipe my AP in a FP machine, which I'm OK with. They don't even track when I leave a park, or use the FPs!

Regarding:

I can see walking up to a FastPass machine and I don't have to dig for my ticket

This is what I'm most curious about, if they put FP on this system and make it "paperless" as another poster suggested.

If you inadvertantly get too close to the machine, how will the system know whether you actually want a FP and aren't just walking up to the CM monitoring the machines to ask her a question?

What will you do if it gives you a FP you don't want when you walk by the machine?

How will you know you were given a Fastpass that you DO want, since you have no paper that PROVES you have a FP?

How do you know what time you can enter the queue, if they go to a paperless system and you don't have the paper to remind you of the time you can ride, or get your next Fastpasss? If you forget the time listed above the machines, then what? The best bet would be to write it down, but wouldn't it be better/easier to just be given a FP paper ticket that has all the info on it?

What if your chip malfunctions, and it doesn't behave the way it's supposed to when trying to enter a queue. How do you prove you're supposed to have a FP?

What about when the sensor at the queue entrance malfunctions, and can't detect chips that are supposed to be allowed entry?

What about after you get into the FP queue, and you see it's backed up, or the ride just went down? Under the current system, since you haven't given your paper to the FP collector yet, you can leave the queue and come back later. Will this be possible if your entering the queue has already been acknowledged electronically at the queue entrance?

I think these are all legitimate, good questions that I bet some pro-RFID poster will try to find a way to make fun of.

I know a lot of people love new technology, but to me, using this for the FP system could potentially cause more confusion and problems than there already is!

Please note that none of these questions are intended as an "argument" with you. As a hard core FP fan, I am honestly curious about how this would work!
 

David S.

Member
You might as well live in...

Real funny. You obviously didn't read my last post (after the one you quoted) explaining more where I was coming from. No, I don't live like that, you are COMPLETELY missing my point....

How dare someone not be all excited about the "latest and greatest" high-tech gadgets!
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
Well, if the RFID technology bothers you that much, you always have other opitions......

Until Universal, Busch Gradens and Sea World start incorporating the same technology, of course.
 

David S.

Member
Real funny. Everyone keeps twisting my words and missing my point.

AGAIN:

* Raven said you wouldn't have to participate, which I said was a GOOD thing.

* Another person speculated that FP may be tied to the system, which is why I speculated that if they do away with paper FP all together, you may have to participate in the RFID system to get a FP.

* IF, in the above FP scenario, they also use the RFID for tracking and/or data mining ALL I said was I would get a shield so I could still get my FPs without participating in the other aspects of the RFID system. So THERE'S your "other option"!

THAT'S ALL.

I had no intention of ending my relationship with Disney over this, or fleeing to the compitition (although I already am a Busch Gardens/Sea World Platinum passholder)

You people are SERIOUSLY overreacting to my comments. No one is threatening a boycott or anything like that! I don't even have an issue with the fingerprint scans, as that stops someone from being able to use my AP if I lose it.
 

NewfieFan

Well-Known Member
I'm ok with Disney tracking my every move (if that's where this is going)... if it improves my vacation and my experience at Disney - bring it on!

I'm ok with them knowing what giftshops I spend a lot of time in and the ones I walk through. I'm ok with them knowing that I don't buy the Disney Parks c#*p but I'll happily part with my money if it's a unique Splash Mountain tee for my son who rode it for the first time! I'm ok with them knowing what attractions I visit on my vacation and the ones I spend the most time on.

I can see only good come from this!?! :shrug:
 

SOLISIMO

Member
Real funny. You obviously didn't read my last post (after the one you quoted) explaining more where I was coming from. No, I don't live like that, you are COMPLETELY missing my point....

How dare someone not be all excited about the "latest and greatest" high-tech gadgets!

Its a joke dont take it too seriously:D but in reality this can only make everyones next trip that much better bc of statistics
 

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