EPCOT Remy's Ratatouille Adventure coming to Epcot

[Sir_Cliff]

Oh they absolutely could have made B&tB without the trackless technology and it probably would have made for a better ride, but I still like the majority of what's there (albeit also only on video). I think every scene but the snow scene works pretty well, even if the dancing is overdone.

If I was picking between it and Ratatouille based off videos, I'd much rather ride B&tB, but that's entirely because of AAs and physical sets over screens. I agree that the parts of Rat where you're scurrying around physical sets looks like a better use of the trackless system than anything in B&tB, but then you stop and watch a movie on a screen and I totally lose interest. It's a personal thing, but I have not been on a single ride where you watch stuff happen on a screen that I've really loved; I always feel like I could just be doing that at home on the couch.

I've only been on Ratatouille, but based on that and the video of B&tB I would really rather go on Ratatouille as it's at least fun. I understand that if screens almost automatically kill an attraction for you that wouldn't be the case, but my feeling about B&tB is that it shows that it doesn't matter how impressive the audioanimatronics or sets are if pacing and staging aren't done correctly. For example, if Pirates of the Caribbean was just three of the existing scenes arranged around the edge of a room in which you spun around with a bunch of other hulking vehicles listing to pirate songs, I think it would be a pretty terrible ride that probably would have closed long ago.

 

[UNCgolf]

I've only been on Ratatouille, but based on that and the video of B&tB I would really rather go on Ratatouille as it's at least fun. I understand that if screens almost automatically kill an attraction for you that wouldn't be the case, but my feeling about B&tB is that it shows that it doesn't matter how impressive the audioanimatronics or sets are if pacing and staging aren't done correctly. For example, if Pirates of the Caribbean was just three of the existing scenes arranged around the edge of a room in which you spun around with a bunch of other hulking vehicles listing to pirate songs, I think it would be a pretty terrible ride that probably would have closed long ago.

I agree, but I think the scenes in B&tB are better than that. I think the only really poorly done scene is the snow one, and that's mainly because it lasts far too long.

It's not that screens automatically kill a ride for me (I enjoy FoP and Soarin', although I don't think either is special), but I suppose detailed place setting matters more to me than anything else on most rides. That probably explains why I like NRJ more than most seem to (I think NRJ looks like a significantly better attraction than Rat and I'm sure I'm in a tiny minority there). It doesn't have great pacing either but I enjoy being in that space, and I would like to experience those spaces in B&tB. I don't really get that feeling from Rat.

That doesn't mean I think B&tB is a great ride, because I don't. Even the scenes I like could be improved in numerous ways, and it's definitely not on the level of truly great, classic Disney attractions like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, Horizons, World of Motion, Tower of Terror, Great Movie Ride, and so on. But I would prefer riding it over a lot of recent WDW builds like Smuggler's Run, Slinky Dog Dash, Alien S.S., Journey of the Little Mermaid, Frozen Ever After, or the coming soon TRON.

I also admit that B&tB is propped up by its IP to an extent, which is something I've mentioned before -- IP can help elevate a mediocre ride just through familiarity. I still think it's a better ride than Frozen Ever After (i.e. if they both had no connection to any existing IP B&tB would be a more impressive ride), but it definitely benefits in a similar way. Pirates, as used in your example, wouldn't have that.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Sorry for being a bit rude about it. But here’s the thing. 10 years ago we would have laughed at the suggestion of putting Ratatouille in France. When it debuted in Paris, we decided it was underwhelming and said “ugh, I bet they’re gonna put it in Epcot ”. Now, that very thing happened And some posters are asserting that it’s a great ride, a perfect fit for Epcot, etc., and I can’t help but feel like we’ve lowered our bar of what a quality experience for a WDW park should be just because Disney was “nice” enough to grace us with anything new at all for Epcot.

Like I don’t see how anyone could deny that the ride would have at least been a better fit if they made some attempt to change the story. But anyway.

Re: trackless rides. I think Rise works well because there’s only two vehicles and the large rooms seem thematically appropriate. MMRR’s first two scenes after the track switch suffer a bit from being “warehousey” because it is shuffling four vehicles around. The rest of the ride had the vehicles in a line which allows the scenes to be closer to the vehicle and more intimate.

Rat has the same issue for much of it. To accommodate three vehicles and have them shuffle and spin around, it feels like a series of big warehouse rooms with large screens that do not blend well. I would like very much for these trackless rides to not have the need to try and “wow” the riders with the ride system. Our attention should be on the environment, not “wow we are criss-crossing the other vehicles!” or whatever. A single, continuous track will always present the set pieces in a more engaging way that pulling into a large room, seeing everything, and then spinning around to see it a second time.

If you’ve ever watched videos of some of the Dubai attractions like MotionGate Dubai, most of them have this weird, half-baked, overly big feel to them with screens and whatnot that do not blend well. It’s like they rode some Disney and Universal rides and only took away the elements on a surface level of understanding and not how to implement them well. THAT, is what Ratatouille feels like to me. Very strange to see it called “great for Epcot.”

 

[LittleBuford]

Sorry for being a bit rude about it. But here’s the thing. 10 years ago we would have laughed at the suggestion of putting Ratatouille in France. When it debuted in Paris, we decided it was underwhelming and said “ugh, I bet they’re gonna put it in Epcot ”.

Who is "we" exactly? I wouldn't have laughed, and I certainly didn't decide it was underwhelming.

 

[LittleBuford]

Thanks to the search feature, I found a thread discussing Ratatouille in Epcot back when it was a rumour in 2014 (not quite ten years ago, but a fair while nonetheless):

Ratatouille in Epcot

Since its now a rumor, lets make a thread! (See HateToFly's tweet)

forums.wdwmagic.com

Some in the thread (including @Tom Morrow and @lazyboy97o) were against the idea, but many people welcomed it. It certainly isn't the case that the idea was rubbished.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Thanks to the search feature, I found a thread discussing Ratatouille in Epcot back when it was a rumour in 2014 (not quite ten years ago, but a fair while nonetheless):

Ratatouille in Epcot

Since its now a rumor, lets make a thread! (See HateToFly's tweet)

forums.wdwmagic.com

Some in the thread (including @Tom Morrow and @lazyboy97o) were against the idea, but many people welcomed it. It certainly isn't the case that the idea was rubbished.

So I've been on the forum for 20 years so a lot of things run together and I've seen a lot of what we approve of evolve (or devolve).... and I'm not reading all 51 pages of that, but I'm seeing a lot of "we'll take what we can get" which isn't exactly praise.

Also note that that thread was started before the Paris version was opened or soft opened. No one knew it would be a budget-friendly ride or what the content would be. Regarding opinions changing, in that thread I said I didn't want any cartoons in WS, and while I wish that were still possible, I know it isn't, so I'd be willing to accept IP but morphed to be appropriate for Epcot. AKA, use Ratatouille but change the story to something besides being chased around the restaurant.

 

[LittleBuford]

So I've been on the forum for 20 years so a lot of things run together and I've seen a lot of what we approve of evolve (or devolve).... and I'm not reading all 51 pages of that, but I'm seeing a lot of "we'll take what we can get" which isn't exactly praise.

My point is that there is no monolithic “we”. Your opinions are shared by many but not all. I like Rat a great deal and am thrilled it’s now at Epcot; I’m not alone in that viewpoint. Disney fandom is capacious enough to accommodate both perspectives.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

My point is that there is no monolithic “we”. Your opinions are shared by many but not all. I like Rat a great deal and am thrilled it’s now at Epcot; I’m not alone in that viewpoint. Disney fandom is capacious enough to accommodate both perspectives.

If only Disney's management was creative which to accommodate both perspectives (as they used to). As others have said, there was a version of Rat that could have made a significantly larger portion of all sides of the fandom happy. It's that lack of creativity that I lament most.

 

[LittleBuford]

If only Disney's management was creative which to accommodate both perspectives (as they used to). As others have said, there was a version of Rat that could have made a significantly larger portion of all sides of the fandom happy. It's that lack of creativity that I lament most.

I don’t understand why importing the ride unchanged should be seen as uncreative. Isn’t the much-vaunted Tokyo Disneyland full of like-for-like transplants? What exactly do you think needed to be modified or adapted for the ride’s Epcot manifestation?

 

[Touchdown]

I don’t know why half the audio is still in French. It’s jarring especially since it’s different voice actors. Also this ride makes no canonical sense. There is not a moment in the movie where Remy has patched up things with his family, Skinner is still head chef and Remy had his own resturant.

 

[DKampy]

I don’t know why half the audio is still in French. It’s jarring especially since it’s different voice actors. Also this ride makes no canonical sense. There is not a moment in the movie where Remy has patched up things with his family, Skinner is still head chef and Remy had his own resturant.

I applaud keeping the French dialogue… feels more authentic to the France pavilion

 

[Touchdown]

I applaud keeping the French dialogue… feels more authentic to the France pavilion

Doesn’t happen in any other Epcot attraction and you know the only reason they did it was budgetary.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I applaud keeping the French dialogue… feels more authentic to the France pavilion

What they really should have kept is the French name! What’s a ratatouille adventure? Ratatouille: Remy’s Totally Zany Adventure is a much, much better name.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I don’t understand why importing the ride unchanged should be seen as uncreative. Isn’t the much-vaunted Tokyo Disneyland full of like-for-like transplants? What exactly do you think needed to be modified or adapted for the ride’s Epcot manifestation?

Because the Paris iteration doesn't work in the story of Epcot as is. The attraction was originally designed to be part of Toon Studios. Meaning it was meant to showcase the fantasy version of Paris created for the cartoon film Ratatouille. And the story, architecture, etc. reflect that. And today, it is a main part of the Worlds of Pixar - meaning a land that recreates the fantasy locations created in beloved Pixar films to celebrate those Pixar films.

World Showcase is (or was) about showcasing the culture of countries around the world in, admittedly, a romanticized way.

That means it's not a huge leap - but the stories don't line up directly. For example, the cartoonish facades, Gusteau's being with a cartoon person vs. real person, the story being about Remy and his creation vs. him teaching about French culinary techniques. These are the missteps. It's not that the attraction couldn't have been 90% cloned. It's that it needed tweaks to work in its new location.

Perfect examples of this are things like MK's Pirates of the Caribbean and many of DLP's versions of attractions. If they had plopped the DL version into MK's Adventureland as is, it wouldn't work with the story of Adventureland. Similarly, if DLP's Space Mountain had been a gleaming white mountain with a modern launch cannon, it wouldn't work in the Verne-esque Discoveryland setting.

Here, because it takes place in Paris, it works as is - that's the mindset, I fear. (And, the execs have notably wanted to get away from the "barriers" they see to the lands being locked in story-wise. It was a main beef with Rhode, as I understand it.) The point RAT (and even FEA) makes is that the adjustments aren't tough. And, while some just let it slide, there is a significant amount of the fan base that sees this and is really, really put off by the constant destruction of what set Disney parks apart for so long.

I appreciate that you see the fit and may not see what I've raised as a big deal. But, there is no denying that Disney used to care about things like this far more than they do today. And, for many, that was the "Disney Difference".

 

[Epcot82Guy]

What they really should have kept is the French name! What’s a ratatouille adventure? Ratatouille: Remy’s Totally Zany Adventure is a much, much better name.

Or - have adjusted the story so Remy was going to teach you how to make Ratatouille. (and, to drive merch, have you enter through the artist's loft where they are animating Remy's upcoming "How to Make Ratatouille and other French Classics" cookbook - when you get (figuratively) pulled into the animation. And, then sell said cookbook in the shop.)

 

[Tom Morrow]

My point is that there is no monolithic “we”. Your opinions are shared by many but not all. I like Rat a great deal and am thrilled it’s now at Epcot; I’m not alone in that viewpoint. Disney fandom is capacious enough to accommodate both perspectives.

I get that. Over the years though, from my perception at least, I have seen this forum transition from majority "purists" to a much bigger mixed bag.

If only Disney's management was creative which to accommodate both perspectives (as they used to). As others have said, there was a version of Rat that could have made a significantly larger portion of all sides of the fandom happy. It's that lack of creativity that I lament most.

This.

I don’t understand why importing the ride unchanged should be seen as uncreative. Isn’t the much-vaunted Tokyo Disneyland full of like-for-like transplants? What exactly do you think needed to be modified or adapted for the ride’s Epcot manifestation?

Because there is no point to having four theme parks with four different "mission statements" only to plop attractions in all of them interchangeably without making them fit. This was snowballing since the 00's (technically since Splash in '92 but that was an outlier for a while) but now it seems they no longer care at all as long as they can point to something in the film that technically makes it fit. Though, sometimes they don't even do that (Monsters, Inc. in Tomorrowland for example). Ratatouille takes place in Paris so it "fits", even though the ride content itself has nothing to do with the purpose of World Showcase. Frozen "fits" because the film's setting is vaguely Nordic. Nemo "fits" with The Seas pavilion because fish.

Copying and pasting an existing attraction as-is is the cheapest and easiest way to add new attractions to a theme park. We know why they do it, but they are supposed to be better than this and make additions that fit.

 

[Purduevian]

Doesn’t happen in any other Epcot attraction and you know the only reason they did it was budgetary.

Of the 3 world show case rides. 1 is bilingual, 1 has a small amount of Spanish mixed in, and 1 takes place in a made up country that speaks English.

If we include all of EPCOT, i think there is a little Whalish in Nemo.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

And today, it is a main part of the Worlds of Pixar - meaning a land that recreates the fantasy locations created in beloved Pixar films to celebrate those Pixar films.

Aladdin is my favorite Pixar movie.

 

[LittleBuford]

World Showcase is (or was) about showcasing the culture of countries around the world in, admittedly, a romanticized way.

Not everything in World Showcase needs to be culturally enlightening/educational in order to be thematically fitting. Weren't they going to build a Mount Fuji rollercoaster at one point back in the day? That would have brought absolutely nothing of educational value, though it would have been great fun to ride.

 

[LittleBuford]

I get that. Over the years though, from my perception at least, I have seen this forum transition from majority "purists" to a much bigger mixed bag.

The purists don't speak for everyone. I for one am glad that multiple perspectives are represented in these forums.