News Remy's Ratatouille Adventure coming to Epcot

[dreday3]

Oh ok I guess it's an amazing attraction and because Epcot needed a new ride, it should be void of any and all criticism, GO DISNEY! WOOOO!!

Oh good lord.

 

[LittleBuford]

But your bar must be pretty low if you don't think Epcot deserved better than a copy/pasted middle tier attraction that only ever got mixed reception, plopped into France because the movie it's based on takes place there.

Or perhaps others view things differently from you and deserve to have their opinions respected.

 

[Casper Gutman]

No, my bar isn't low.

(but my attention span must be because I stopped reading after that)

Thank goodness you responded, then. But at least you’re really respecting his opinion!

Tom actually has some very strong points about the nature of the screens. I liked Rat, but I only rode it once and had very low expectations. I usually process a ride or film better on second viewing, so I’m interested in how it will appear after more ride throughs. The screens do seem noticeably less “real” then in the Scoop rides, but to some extent the bright, animated nature of the Rat source IP can excuse that. Of course, Spidey is also based on an animated cartoon…

 

[LittleBuford]

Thank goodness you responded, then. But at least you’re really respecting his opinion!

He did nothing to earn her respect or merit a fuller response; on the contrary, he insulted her, thereby foreclosing any possibility of meaningful dialogue. He could have presented his assessment (which is perfectly valid) without taking a swipe at her. That might have led to a productive and fruitful exchange. But as so often happens here, some people are incapable of recognising that their opinion isn’t the only one worthy of respect.

 

[dreday3]

Thank goodness you responded, then. But at least you’re really respecting his opinion!

 

[dreday3]

He did nothing to earn her respect; on the contrary, he insulted her. He could have presented his assessment (which is perfectly valid) without taking a swipe at her. That might have led to a productive and fruitful exchange. But as so often happens here, some people are incapable of crediting that their opinion isn’t the only one worthy of respect.

Thanks, but that will fall on deaf ears!

Enjoy any upcoming trip, we certainly enjoyed ours!

 

[Casper Gutman]

Just to prattle on, I have very mixed feelings about the trackless dark ride system WDW has been enamored with lately. I’ve always felt strongly that dark rides are akin to films, with the audience being moved instead of the camera, allowing for modified versions of many film techniques - zooms, slow reveals, dolly shots, tracking shots, etc. This is the major reason I feel interactive rides are almost universally doomed to failure.

In this light, the trackless system is very problematic. The need to move multiple cars in the same space usually results in wider views and less control over the guests line of sight. The most egregious example of the problems this creates is B&B in Tokyo, which often devolves into a bunch of carts wandering around a warehouse floor. The temptation seems to be to solve this by planting cars in from of individual cubby screens - see the waterfall in MMRR or several parts of Rat - but this is basically just compensating for the rides inability to create physical cinematic effects by literally turning it into a stationary theatre watching a cinematic segment. In RotR this lack of precise control results in a diminished sense of tension and easily missed elements - I completely missed the Finn AA on first ride through and, even after the location was explained to me, almost did so the second time. On MMRR, which I absolutely love, this is a huge problem, as guests in certain cars miss entire effects and zoom through certain rooms without being able to appreciate them.

Basically, I think the WDW trackless system has a huge amount of drawbacks. It seems inferior to the old Doom Buggies and particularly the modern Scoop, which are much more accommodating to the cinematic nature of theme park attractions.

 

[LittleBuford]

Thanks, but that will fall on deaf ears!

Enjoy any upcoming trip, we certainly enjoyed ours!

Thanks, and glad to hear you enjoyed yourselves. Not sure when I’ll be heading back, but Ratatouille will be high on my to-do list!

 

[UNCgolf]

The most egregious example of the problems this creates is B&B in Tokyo, which often devolves into a bunch of carts wandering around a warehouse floor.

I think this has happened in every single trackless ride built thus far except for Rise -- and Rise just sidesteps the issue by being set in a location that's thematically supposed to have a bunch of gigantic rooms/corridors. Some rides are worse than others, but they all seem to have at least one room/scene that feels like a warehouse.

I think it's an inherent flaw in the trackless system, because it's almost required to make the system worth using. If you're not going to have ride vehicles spread out and go different places, there's no reason to be trackless at all. I'm sure there's a design out there that will really take advantage of the trackless system and showcase how it can be used to maximum effect, but I have yet to see one where the system truly felt necessary to the ride (i.e. that they couldn't have achieved something similar overall with a regular tracked vehicle or wire guided, even if it required some design changes).

 

[Casper Gutman]

He did nothing to earn her respect or merit a fuller response; on the contrary, he insulted her, thereby foreclosing any possibility of meaningful dialogue. He could have presented his assessment (which is perfectly valid) without taking a swipe at her. That might have led to a productive and fruitful exchange. But as so often happens here, some people are incapable of recognising that their opinion isn’t the only one worthy of respect.

Oh, so now respect is due only to some. If his “low bar” statement is an insult, your bar for insults is almost subterranean, and Dres cutesy off-handed dismissal of his opinion (which demonstrated no interest in engagement) qualifies as well. But strangely, you only get upset if the perceived sleight comes from posters with one particular set of views.

I don’t know if you are American, but I am, and I am sensitive to this nonsense because one of the things tearing our country apart is a kind of victimization entitlement, the idea that anything (or nothing) can be perceived as an insult - more specifically a dismissal of opinions as inferior - and that this perception then justifies anything from incredible rudeness and cruelty to dismissal of all previously stated principal to refusing vaccines to organized violence against democracy. I’m sick of it. These boards mean next to nothing compared to those cultural and political currents, but even the faintest echoes of the phenomenon are deeply annoying.

 

[dreday3]

I'm American. Unbothered by any of this. Just amused

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think this has happened in every single trackless ride built thus far except for Rise -- and Rise just sidesteps the issue by being set in a location that's thematically supposed to have a bunch of gigantic rooms/corridors. Some rides are worse than others, but they all seem to have at least one room/scene that feels like a warehouse.

It seems like an inherent flaw in the trackless system to me, because it's almost required to make the system worth using. If you're not going to have ride vehicles spread out and go different places, there's no reason to be trackless at all. I'm sure there's a design out there that will really take advantage of the trackless system and showcase how it can be used to maximum effect, but I have yet to see one where the trackless system really felt necessary to the ride (i.e. that they couldn't have achieved something just as good overall with a regular tracked vehicle, even if it required some design changes).

I think MMRR actually deals with it better then Rise because it constantly bombards you with sensory input from every direction, so even if your gaze wanders you are viewing something of interest (although, as mentioned, the trackless system creates other issues for MMRR).

In Rise, the big open sections are narratively legitimate but still create big problems. For instance, the need to create open space makes the ship feel comically underpopulated and diminishes the sense of danger - it’s telling that the room with legions of troopers takes place before you board the vehicles. And Rens menace is diluted because the encounters take place in such big open spaces. It frustrates engagement - one can admire the cool effects while feeling very removed from them. It’s like watching an NFL broadcast that offers only a single stadium-wide shot of the game.

I feel like, to make real use of the trackless system, you need to build an attraction with multiple, largely distinct but occasionally intertwining paths that guests can clearly choose from before boarding. But that would essentially amount to building three rides at once - not very economical.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think MMRR actually deals with it better then Rise because it constantly bombards you with sensory input from every direction, so even if your gaze wanders you are viewing something of interest (although, as mentioned, the trackless system creates other issues for MMRR).

In Rise, the big open sections are narratively legitimate but still create big problems. For instance, the need to create open space makes the ship feel comically underpopulated and diminishes the sense of danger - it’s telling that the room with legions of troopers takes place before you board the vehicles. And Rens menace is diluted because the encounters take place in such big open spaces. It frustrates engagement - one can admire the cool effects while feeling very removed from them. It’s like watching an NFL broadcast that offers only a single stadium-wide shot of the game.

I feel like, to make real use of the trackless system, you need to build an attraction with multiple, largely distinct but occasionally intertwining paths that guests can clearly choose from before boarding. But that would essentially amount to building three rides at once - not very economical.

I was only referring to the warehouse issues thematically with Rise -- that the gigantic rooms don't feel out of place the way they do in something like BATB. That's why I said they sidestepped that one specific issue. I agree with everything else you're saying.

EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it more, BATB doesn't really have a thematic problem either, so maybe I take back what I said about Rise. The worst offender in BATB is the outdoor snow scene, but it makes sense that that would be a relatively large open area -- the problem isn't the size of the room but the fact that nothing really happens in it. I think you're right that the oversize rooms cause other issues as you referenced in Rise.

 

[LittleBuford]

Oh, so now respect is due only to some. If his “low bar” statement is an insult, your bar for insults is almost subterranean, and Dres cutesy off-handed dismissal of his opinion (which demonstrated no interest in engagement) qualifies as well. But strangely, you only get upset if the perceived sleight comes from posters with one particular set of views.

I don’t know if you are American, but I am, and I am sensitive to this nonsense because one of the things tearing our country apart is a kind of victimization entitlement, the idea that anything (or nothing) can be perceived as an insult - more specifically a dismissal of opinions as inferior - and that this perception then justifies anything from incredible rudeness and cruelty to dismissal of all previously stated principal to refusing vaccines to organized violence against democracy. I’m sick of it. These boards mean next to nothing compared to those cultural and political currents, but even the faintest echoes of the phenomenon are deeply annoying.

I'm a Brit residing in the US, though I'm not sure how that matters. You're making things unnecessarily complicated in my opinion. His reply to her was rude and therefore unconducive to fruitful or respectful dialogue. I don't think that's a particularly profound or original observation on my part, nor does it have anything to do with the sociopolitical landscape that you bring up in your second paragraph. It's simply a matter of common courtesy.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I'm a Brit residing in the US, though I'm not sure how that matters. You're making things unnecessarily complicated in my opinion. His reply to her was rude and therefore unconducive to fruitful or respectful dialogue. I don't think that's a particularly profound or original observation on my part, not does it have anything to do with the sociopolitical landscape that you bring up in your second paragraph. It's simply a matter of common courtesy.

Dre was as “rude” to Tom as vice versa - which is not particularly. Common courtesy goes both ways, and feeling slighted doesn’t excuse further bad behavior.

And I only raised the American thing because I was going to discuss a specifically US social cultural phenomenon and wanted to allow that some might not really care about it since it isn’t there problem (though we do have a way of making out problems everyone’s problem).

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I think this has happened in every single trackless ride built thus far except for Rise -- and Rise just sidesteps the issue by being set in a location that's thematically supposed to have a bunch of gigantic rooms/corridors. Some rides are worse than others, but they all seem to have at least one room/scene that feels like a warehouse.

I think it's an inherent flaw in the trackless system, because it's almost required to make the system worth using. If you're not going to have ride vehicles spread out and go different places, there's no reason to be trackless at all. I'm sure there's a design out there that will really take advantage of the trackless system and showcase how it can be used to maximum effect, but I have yet to see one where the trackless system truly felt necessary to the ride (i.e. that they couldn't have achieved something similar overall with a regular tracked vehicle, even if it required some design changes).

Mystic Manor does a good job with the layout of both the rooms and various props and set pieces to not have the warehouse feel.

It's still the best trackless ride they've done IMO, followed by Rise.

 

[UNCgolf]

Mystic Manor does a good job with the layout of both the rooms and various props and set pieces to not have the warehouse feel.

It's still the best trackless ride they've done IMO, followed by Rise.

I agree that Mystic Manor is the best, but I still think it feels vaguely like a giant warehouse in places, with the caveat that I've only seen ride videos. It's just not as bad about it as all the others. Pooh manages to avoid it for part of the ride, then dives hard into it with the Heffalumps and Woozles scene.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I agree that Mystic Manor is the best, but I still think it feels vaguely like a giant warehouse in places, with the caveat that I've only seen ride videos. It's just not as bad about it as all the others.

In person the ride is more intimate.

The worst scene is the second last one because it's the largest room with a very obvious screen surrounding you.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Pooh manages to avoid it for part of the ride, then dives hard into it with the Heffalumps and Woozles scene.

That scene drags down the whole ride for me. It goes on way too long and it's not that visually interesting.

The woods before hand are much better.

 

[James Alucobond]

I was only referring to the warehouse issues thematically with Rise -- that the gigantic rooms don't feel out of place the way they do in something like BATB. That's why I said they sidestepped that one specific issue. I agree with everything else you're saying.

I think they just need to be more selective about which rooms they "warehouse". Beauty and the Beast generally works when you're supposed to be in rooms within the castle, but the winter scene is particularly egregious because you're spinning around an area that should have a fully organic, snow-covered floor for a full minute and 45 seconds. Yes, the dining room should be more intimate to be wholly believable, but I can suspend that disbelief when I'm in a rectangular room that, well, should be a rectangular room.