Removing accomodations for guests with mental disabilities

[Lucky]

While I do think there need to be limits, I think it should allow immediate family members only. We are a family of 6; 4 kids and 2 adults so I dont think we should be split up. However, I dont think extended friends and family should be allowed to use it. Even when we went with friends and extended family, we split up on many rides for this reason.

Elopez, yes, you can get a GAP for visually impared that states you can sit in the front when possible. My daughter is also visually impared and this has helped us.:wave:

Fully agree. I'd love to coordinate with my siblings and nephews and nieces on a WDW trip, but if it ever happens, I would never consider using the guest assistance card for anyone beyond my 4-person nuclear family. And that wouldn't have to mean never doing rides or attractions together. On the majority of attractions, we don't use the card anyway. On 2 of our 4 trips, we didn't even get a card, because we were able to go during less-crowded times of the year, when FastPass wasn't even in operation, even at the most popular rides.

 

[Mark_E]

I think its great that when people who have mental disabilities dont need to be stressed out at WDW. Although I do think it would be pretty bad if the wait time was 2-3 hours and it would have been possible to get a fastpass for it and return later.

However what I absolutely hate is people who are using wheelchairs skip the line. When i was there just last week the wait at snow white was about 20 mins. We get very close to the front and then we see a group of 6 with someone in an EVC pull up at the exit. The woman in the EVC stands up, walks without difficulty to the loading bay thing, and gets on without a wait!!! I saw this happen at loads of different rides with different people.

 

[Tigger1988]

I think its great that when people who have mental disabilities dont need to be stressed out at WDW. Although I do think it would be pretty bad if the wait time was 2-3 hours and it would have been possible to get a fastpass for it and return later.

However what I absolutely hate is people who are using wheelchairs skip the line. When i was there just last week the wait at snow white was about 20 mins. We get very close to the front and then we see a group of 6 with someone in an EVC pull up at the exit. The woman in the EVC stands up, walks without difficulty to the loading bay thing, and gets on without a wait!!! I saw this happen at loads of different rides with different people.

Just because she can walk the 2 feet to the ride car doesn't mean she doesn't have some sort of problem. I hate when people judge someone like that without knowing all the details.

 

[joshwill]

Just because she can walk the 2 feet to the ride car doesn't mean she doesn't have some sort of problem. I hate when people judge someone like that without knowing all the details.

its perfectly understandable that someone cannot wait standing in line for a lenght of time. what cant said person wait, in their chair/ecv, in the shade, whaile one or more of their party that can stand wait in line with the rest of the people, then when that person get to the front, they can get out of their conveance and enjoy the ride.

 

[Tigger1988]

its perfectly understandable that someone cannot wait standing in line for a lenght of time. what cant said person wait, in their chair/ecv, in the shade, whaile one or more of their party that can stand wait in line with the rest of the people, then when that person get to the front, they can get out of their conveance and enjoy the ride.

If im reading what you wrote right (the way its written is sort of confusing) you want the person in a ecv to sit alone, while their party goes on the standby line.How would the person know that their party was up at the front of the line? How would they then get through the wheelchair gate by themselves?

 

[SpaceRangrQueen]

If im reading what you wrote right (the way its written is sort of confusing) you want the person in a ecv to sit alone, while their party goes on the standby line.How would the person know that their party was up at the front of the line? How would they then get through the wheelchair gate by themselves?

This is actually a GAC option if the stamp on your card is for a shaded waiting area that is exactly what would happen. Wait to the side while the rest of the party goes through the line, and then meet up with them.

In an ideal world all queues would be wheelchair accessible so all wheelchairs and ECVs would go through the standard line, no questions no cards no fuss. You have a problem standing, rent a wheelchair, you have a bad back, rent a wheelchair. You only need a pass for autism and you bring a doctors note, not unreasonable most people who truly need assistance plan ahead for that. The whole point of GACs is so that guests with disabilities can experience the park the same way as everyone else, not so they can jump in line ahead of everyone else. If a ride offers fastpass then there is no reason why that shouldn't be utilized as is.
I've worked with autistic children a lot and I understand the story that started the thread. The problem is that every Tom ________ and Harry thinks they need the same GAC as an autistic child and those people deserve to abide by the FP system and get them like everyone else. The problem is also that everyone who has a child on the autism spectrum (which everyone falls on somewhere) thinks they need a card. The Autism Society of America says that about 1 million Americans have autism that means .3% of the population, yet a much higher percentage of people each day get a GAC for autism.
I think the system needs to change. Weed out those who just want to get to the front of the line, give assistance to those who really can't navigate the parks without it, have minimal impact on everyone else.


Just a little bit of extra reading:
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm
http://www.autism-society.org/site/PageServer

 

[Lucky]

This is actually a GAC option if the stamp on your card is for a shaded waiting area that is exactly what would happen. Wait to the side while the rest of the party goes through the line, and then meet up with them.

In an ideal world all queues would be wheelchair accessible so all wheelchairs and ECVs would go through the standard line, no questions no cards no fuss. You have a problem standing, rent a wheelchair, you have a bad back, rent a wheelchair. You only need a pass for autism and you bring a doctors note, not unreasonable most people who truly need assistance plan ahead for that. The whole point of GACs is so that guests with disabilities can experience the park the same way as everyone else, not so they can jump in line ahead of everyone else. If a ride offers fastpass then there is no reason why that shouldn't be utilized as is.
I've worked with autistic children a lot and I understand the story that started the thread. The problem is that every Tom ________ and Harry thinks they need the same GAC as an autistic child and those people deserve to abide by the FP system and get them like everyone else. The problem is also that everyone who has a child on the autism spectrum (which everyone falls on somewhere) thinks they need a card. The Autism Society of America says that about 1 million Americans have autism that means .3% of the population, yet a much higher percentage of people each day get a GAC for autism.
I think the system needs to change. Weed out those who just want to get to the front of the line, give assistance to those who really can't navigate the parks without it, have minimal impact on everyone else.


Just a little bit of extra reading:
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm
http://www.autism-society.org/site/PageServer

If 0.3% are autistic, the percentage of families with one member who is autistic is probably several times as high. And because Disney to its credit has bult a reputation for treating people with disabilities relatively well, the percentage of families visiting WDW who have someone with autism is likely to be even higher.

When I go through the FastPass lines, I see all but maybe 2% or so of parties handing paper FastPasses to the CMs, rather than displaying a Guest Assistance Cards. So I'd say there's already "minimal impact on everyone else." What would you propose doing to "weed out" the small number of people who might be abusing the system?

 

[ilovepluto23]

my cousin has mental disabilities. if he acted up like that, my aunt and uncle would not just give in to him, that just reinforces to him that he can get away with anything if the throws a tantrum.

I agree with this. Yes, WDW is a heightened experience compared to the normal acts of everyday life, and I can see how it would over-excite an autistic person to where they may throw tantrums when they can't get on the ride immediately. BUT an autistic adult's mind is that of a child's...and children shouldn't be taught that they can get their way with a tantrum.

If you think your autistic brother is not capable of seeing how he can get his way with tantrums, you are very mistakened. Children under the age of 2 even understand this. Don't underestimate a person with special needs.

I understand it's tough, and this topic is very touchy. I do believe they should allow him through the FP line, but I do not think he should have unrealistic expectations such as he could immediately get on any ride he wants to go on.
Someone mentioned earlier...what if the ride broke down or the attraction stopped to accomodate a guest confined to a wheelchair? He should understand to some extent that everyone must wait their turn, even in WDW.

I hope you, your brother, and the rest of your family enjoy your trip!

 

[PotteryGal]

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but...
Have you ever seen a meltdown with an autistic person, who, because they want to communicate but just cannot do it, start hitting themselves in the face, or scream and go limp when you try to redirect them to another location? My son is between 40 - 45 pounds, and when he goes limp, you feel every one of those pounds. Up to 50% of autistics will never be able to verbally communicate with others; we use picture cards, hand gestures, anything visual to get a response. Autistics melt down because they're overwhelmed - period. Yes, they have wills of their own; yes they're impatient and want their own way - every child will put parents through their paces, but autistics who are unable to speak are so, so frustrated. Think about that. My son's intelligence shows in his face, but he can't tell me when he's hurt or sick or angry...well, you get the idea.

ONCE AGAIN, thanks to all who answered my questions concerning the purpose of the GAC. Just remember, if an autistic child or adult is having a meltdown, don't automatically assume it's because they are spoiled and didn't get their way.
78 Days! :sohappy::sohappy:

 

[Lucky]

I agree with this. Yes, WDW is a heightened experience compared to the normal acts of everyday life, and I can see how it would over-excite an autistic person to where they may throw tantrums when they can't get on the ride immediately. BUT an autistic adult's mind is that of a child's...and children shouldn't be taught that they can get their way with a tantrum.

If you think your autistic brother is not capable of seeing how he can get his way with tantrums, you are very mistakened. Children under the age of 2 even understand this. Don't underestimate a person with special needs.

I understand it's tough, and this topic is very touchy. I do believe they should allow him through the FP line, but I do not think he should have unrealistic expectations such as he could immediately get on any ride he wants to go on.
Someone mentioned earlier...what if the ride broke down or the attraction stopped to accomodate a guest confined to a wheelchair? He should understand to some extent that everyone must wait their turn, even in WDW.

I hope you, your brother, and the rest of your family enjoy your trip!

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. It is not the case however that "an autistic adult's mind is that of a child's." Autism is not just arrested development. The brain is simply not wired the same way as other people's are, whether child or adult.

Mental disabilities, even those that tend to be grouped under the label of "autism," also vary enormously. Not every one with a mental disability can be "taught" not to have a tantrum.

You are right that people with special needs should not be underestimated. But the variety in their problems and needs should not be underestimated either: they are not all the same and they cannot all be treated the same way. And their caregivers should be given the benefit of the doubt in determining their problems and needs. No one else can diagnose the special needs, or judge the competence of the caregivers, based on observing them for a minute or two, or based on one's knowledge of some other case.

 

[PSU_Princess]

I having been keeping up with this thread and I have to say how I am very impressed that most of the people who trully need this card say they only use it if absolutely neccesary. I think you should be applauded in trying to give your family members a normal vacation and only taking advantage of the card in extreme situations. :sohappy:


It is very unfortunate that some people abuse the system and cause the potential shut down of such a great program. I am not all that familiar with what happend in DL but I am very glad that the WDW program is still in existence.

 

[Meeko]

It is very unfortunate that some people abuse the system and cause the potential shut down of such a great program. I am not all that familiar with what happend in DL but I am very glad that the WDW program is still in existence.

Does anyone know what happened in DL? Do they no longer have any disabilities program?

By the way, this thread has been very informative. Thanks everybody!

 

[mousermerf]

Prior to 2004, any Guest at DLR, could walk up, say "I have a disability" and get a pass - called the SAP. The cards put you right through most every line.

In 2004, they flat out removed the system, and required you to explain your "need" and they gave you a card based on your need. It is, depending on who you ask, either more or less strict than WDW's GAC system.

Everytime these discussions come up, the "want" versus "need" discussion comes up, especially with autism. I still beleive, and probably will always beleive, that it is the caretakers responsbility to have a way and means and plan for obtaining a Fastpass for attractions which offer the system.

 

[The Mom]

I believe that there is no way to know exactly what it's like to spend 24/7, 365 days/year with each particular person who is mentally disabled.

Spending a day, or even a week or two with someone at the highest end of the disability spectrum is NOT the same as spending your life with him, knowing that things are highly unlikely to get any better. That's the difference between a child's tantrum and this. They only last for a few years or so, and eventually the child will have the ability to learn to control himself. The "tantrums" mentioned here will continue until that person dies.

Just because some people with the same disability can be "taught" to wait their turn doesn't mean everyone can. Every disability is different, and one size does NOT fit all.

Perhaps some people would be happier if we went back to the days when these children/adults weren't allowed out in public, but were put into institutions where they could be under better control. And if they weren't behaving, at least the general population didn't have to be exposed to it.

 

[PotteryGal]

IMHO, that's my biggest fear with my son's education. Inclusion is a wonderful idea, only the public schools are not equipped to handle the individual needs, and claim budget shortages to provide the kind of assistance teachers need to work with these kids. Insurance looks at autism as a mental illness and will not pay for speech and OT therapy (although if my son had a stroke, they would pay for those therapies). So, our choices are working through the public school system, or if your income is low, you can be put onto to state waiting list for aid. Otherwise, you have to be independently wealthy to pay for the intensive 30-40 hour a week therapy these kids really need.

Sorry about the rant, but that is why Disney is so exciting for us. It's an escape, for however brief a time, of all of this. Our son is a great kid. He will point at pictures of Mickey Mouse and say, "mic-key" and watch the planning videos along with his mom! Two years ago he wouldn't even look our way, and he didn't even make sounds. I look forward to him meeting the Mouse in person!

 

[Trishnh]

In an ideal world all queues would be wheelchair accessible so all wheelchairs and ECVs would go through the standard line, no questions no cards no fuss.

Not so sure this would be a good thing:hammer: Being that my daughter spends time in a wheelchair we are around people in EVCs frequently while at WDW and let me tell you, most of the poeple have NO clue how to drive them!!! I cant even tell you how many times my daughter has nearly been run over:fork: ..and we are sure to give them plenty of space.
They need to offer drivers ed courses for those things!:lookaroun

 

[seabee1]

I completely agree with you about this. The last time we were there my husband(in a wheelchair) was sitting a little bit away from us, I was getting something with the kids and this woman ran right into him with an ECV. Now, my husband wasn't moving, he was sitting still, off to the side. She honked her horn at him, I couldn't believe it. I mean, where do you want him to go. You are stuck in his spokes! Besides, YOU hit him! I was in such shock over her behavior, we just looked at her like she was crazy. My husband said, uh, excuse me-you hit me. We laugh now, but my word.

They should have some little driving course to practice on before they unleash them into the public.

 

[The Mom]

My mother has had difficulty assimilating any new information for the past few years, for instance, she can't use a different elevator, as she can't figure out the buttons.

The last time (and it truly was the last time) I took her to WDW she kept asking about renting "one of those scooter things" so I wouldn't have to push her.

Right. All I could imagine was a trail of blood and gore left in her wake, due to all the people she would hit. :lol: The same goes with the ones at Publix (when she still had to buy food) No way was she getting on one.

 

[ILOVEDISNEY]

Oh, the good old days. DYK, that in 1900 25% of all children in the United States were in orphanages? In 2006 there are very, very few orphanages left in the US. Have American parents gotten better in 100+ years? I think not. Look at the statistics for poverty, child abuse and the number of children born to unmarried women in the US.

The fact that children are no longer in orphanges and people with mental issues are no longer in institutions is that the US taxpayer is no longer willing to pay for these services. The religious orders that ran most of the orphanages faced the same money problems (donations in this case) along with not having enough people to to run them; so they closed their doors.

Disney is in business to make money--a lot of money. The fact they accomodate persons with disabilities is good business sense and does not come from altruism. If that was the case Disney would offer free or reduced admission to persons with mental issues and/or disabilities, or maybe they do, and I've missed something, but I don't think so. Maybe there should be a law!?

I wish everyone could be healthy, wealthy, and wise and not have to work or pay taxes, but just go to Walt Disney World 24/7, but that's not going to happen.