News Refurbishment coming soon to Disney's Polynesian Village Resort - Moana details to be included

[Skywise]

"Horizontal beam" is redundant.

I've got an architect friend who bemoans another friend who keeps referring to houses built on "flat slabs"

 

[UNCgolf]

I agree, but many of the posts here seem to be saying that the Moana references are overdone or out of keeping with Disney’s traditional approach.

I do think they're more in your face than what Disney has done at other resorts, so I can understand the complaint. They're definitely a much bigger part of the room design then the characters on the bedspread in that Grand Floridian photo, for example.

It just doesn't bother that much at the Polynesian because I don't think that resort was ever really themed the way resorts like the Grand Floridian or the Boardwalk Inn are. It is themed, but it's basically themed to something created by Disney (and tiki culture in general) rather than based on any actual time/place.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Imagine if the new Star Wars hotel had graphics of the characters on the walls of the room. Would you consider that theming or making it more "Star Wars"? Or would you think that detracts from the intended setting?

Right now Star Wars and Avatar are the two properties where theme integrity is treated in a noticeably different way than the rest of the resort, to the detriment of everything else.

This is an example of what I like to call "Theming vs. Decoration".

Generally speaking, real theming is structural. If you picked up the building, flipped it over, and let everything loose shake out, would you still get the idea of where you're meant to be when you went inside?

I always love to show Merlin's Shop inside the Castle at Disneyland Paris as an example of real, rich Theming - if you took out every prop in this shop you would still know EXACTLY what kind of place this was meant to be, because the space itself is custom designed to tell you:

Add to that the fact that it's all very BELIEVABLE and you have an example of fantastic theming. Not to mention, this isn't even an attraction, it's a shop! But it's as well themed as the very best-themed attractions.

Compare this to, say, something like Enchanted Tales with Belle. Take this room, flip it upside down, shake out the Wardrobe, the Chandeliers, and the Tapestries, and where are you? An enchanted castle in the woods, or a hotel convention center?:

I don't fully mean to hate on Enchanted Tales, because there are parts of that experience that are quite nice, but this room serves as a good example. And these days there are a few too many spaces like this in Disney Parks where the theme is merely laid on top like a film rather than fully baked-in. If a space can have its theme stripped from it within a week without doing any demo, it's probably just Decorated and not Themed.

And while I refer to in-park spaces in this post to draw strong contrast, clearly hotel spaces are not immune from this.

 

[UNCgolf]

This is an example of what I like to call "Theming vs. Decoration".

Generally speaking, real theming is structural. If you picked up the building, flipped it over, and let everything loose shake out, would you still get the idea of where you're meant to be when you went inside?

I always love to show Merlin's Shop inside the Castle at Disneyland Paris as an example of real, rich Theming - if you took out every prop in this shop you would still know EXACTLY what kind of place this was meant to be, because the space itself is custom designed to tell you:

View attachment 537923 View attachment 537924

Add to that the fact that it's all very BELIEVABLE and you have an example of fantastic theming. Not to mention, this isn't even an attraction, it's a shop! But it's as well themed as the very best-themed attractions.

Compare this to, say, something like Enchanted Tales with Belle. Take this room, flip it upside down, shake out the Wardrobe, the Chandeliers, and the Tapestries, and where are you? An enchanted castle in the woods, or a hotel convention center?:

View attachment 537926

I don't fully mean to hate on Enchanted Tales, because there are parts of that experience that are quite nice, but this room serves as a good example. And these days there are a few too many spaces like this in Disney Parks where the theme is merely laid on top like a film rather than fully baked-in. If a space can have its theme stripped from it within a week without doing any demo, it's probably just Decorated and not Themed.

And while I refer to in-park spaces in this post to draw strong contrast, clearly hotel spaces are not immune from this.

While I 100% agree with you in general, I do think there are times where the decoration is the only real way to give a room the proper theme.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

While I 100% agree with you in general, I do think there are times where the decoration is the only real way to give a room the proper theme.

There are times that's true, yes, there are exceptions to every rule.

If we're talking exclusively about interiors, this tends to occur in spaces that have a real world analogue - there are arguably several shops on Main Street could have their interiors stripped and leave no indication of what the space was meant to be. But then, the exteriors of the shops do much to provide that theming, and by the point you stripped those away you'd be doing demolition. So at least they make up some ground in their commitment to theming. Spaces that lack genuine Theming in both their interior and exterior are thankfully rare enough, but BOY do they stand out when you see them.

Not to mention that is generally the nature of a hometown shop - the shopkeep pays rent and decorates the space to their will, and it's not expected that they would necessarily alter it structurally. Relying on decor to tell that story and bring that space to life makes sense.


Let's also not let it be said that decor isn't a useful part of theming a space - it absolutely is. But it's not everything. And when you're creating a fantastical environment, generally you need more than decor to truly transport people.

 

[wdwmagic]

Latest look at the Great Ceremonial House construction at the Polynesian Resort.

Polynesian Village Resort Great Ceremonial House refurbishment - March 8 2021

Polynesian Village Resort Great Ceremonial House refurbishment - March 8 2021

www.wdwmagic.com

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is an example of what I like to call "Theming vs. Decoration".

Generally speaking, real theming is structural. If you picked up the building, flipped it over, and let everything loose shake out, would you still get the idea of where you're meant to be when you went inside?

I always love to show Merlin's Shop inside the Castle at Disneyland Paris as an example of real, rich Theming - if you took out every prop in this shop you would still know EXACTLY what kind of place this was meant to be, because the space itself is custom designed to tell you:

View attachment 537923 View attachment 537924

Add to that the fact that it's all very BELIEVABLE and you have an example of fantastic theming. Not to mention, this isn't even an attraction, it's a shop! But it's as well themed as the very best-themed attractions.

Compare this to, say, something like Enchanted Tales with Belle. Take this room, flip it upside down, shake out the Wardrobe, the Chandeliers, and the Tapestries, and where are you? An enchanted castle in the woods, or a hotel convention center?:

View attachment 537926

I don't fully mean to hate on Enchanted Tales, because there are parts of that experience that are quite nice, but this room serves as a good example. And these days there are a few too many spaces like this in Disney Parks where the theme is merely laid on top like a film rather than fully baked-in. If a space can have its theme stripped from it within a week without doing any demo, it's probably just Decorated and not Themed.

And while I refer to in-park spaces in this post to draw strong contrast, clearly hotel spaces are not immune from this.

While I 100% agree with you in general, I do think there are times where the decoration is the only real way to give a room the proper theme.

To me the difference between themed experience and themed decor is the purpose of the object. In different contexts the same object can have a different purpose. The example I like to use to distinguish between experience and decor is Batman.

Building a room filled with Batman memorabilia would be described as “Batman themed” but would be very different than building the Batcave. One would expect to see a Batmobile in each but how each room functions is very different. Themed decor seeks to remind the viewer of some external experience. This is the memorabilia room and it’s Batmobile. Themed experience places the viewer within the story itself. This is the Batcave where you are in the world of Batman and that is the focus, placing you in the world itself and just just external to it. In both you have a Batmobile but in both they function differently but also not alone. You wouldn’t buy into any room with a Batmobile as being the Batcave but inversely just a cave with the Batmobile inside does not quite cut it. So even an object that is seemingly “in theme” can be inappropriate to a themed experience if it’s purpose is primarily to create that external recall outside of the actual experience.

“Theming” being reduced to any sort of object comes short, even the building. It’s more of an idea that should guide every design decision. Even the background music is part of theming. Of late too often the props and decorations have done most of the heavy lifting as spaces are less uniquely designed to the story. It has also created the false equivalency that more stuff means more “themed” creating an unnecessary busyness in projects.

 

[SorcererMC]

The theme is that you are on one of Moana's new wayfinding journeys.

 

[UNCgolf]

If we're talking exclusively about interiors, this tends to occur in spaces that have a real world analogue - there are arguably several shops on Main Street could have their interiors stripped and leave no indication of what the space was meant to be. But then, the exteriors of the shops do much to provide that theming, and by the point you stripped those away you'd be doing demolition. So at least they make up some ground in their commitment to theming. Spaces that lack genuine Theming in both their interior and exterior are thankfully rare enough, but BOY do they stand out when you see them.

Yep, that's exactly what I had in mind. A lot of rooms themed after real world spaces are difficult to theme properly without decor.

The Enchanted Tales with Belle photo is what prompted it. I do think they could have done more with that space, but I think it would be difficult to build a space that would automatically bring the right era/location to mind without relying on decor.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Yep, that's exactly what I had in mind. A lot of rooms themed after real world spaces are difficult to theme properly without decor.

The Enchanted Tales with Belle photo is what prompted it. I do think they could have done more with that space, but I think it would be difficult to build a space that would automatically bring the right era/location to mind without relying on decor.

I mean, there's certainly more they *could* have done to make the room feel more richly themed in its bones:



Now, in fairness, this below is the room we're technically in as shown in the film . . . but since liberties were clearly being taken they might as well have gone all the way. Any of the rooms above feel more like they could be in the Beast's Castle than what we got, and are a little more structurally involved while still being basically a rectangular room.

 

[drnilescrane]

Agreed. In hotels, many chains are going to luxury-vinyl surfaces or similar because they are easier to maintain and clean and also they don't harbor bed bugs. Bed bugs were a gamechanger for a while in hotel room design.

But they do tend to put a rug down underneath the bedding which can be easily swapped:

(New rooms at the Marriott World Center, an equivalent 4 diamond property)

Disney not doing that is just them being cheap. I don’t mind it moving around the room but I dislike feet on a cold floor in the morning.

The Luxury hotels in the Central FL market still are putting down carpet - Ritz Grande Lakes and Four Seasons Orlando just redid their rooms and the carpet has stayed. Grand Californian also kept carpet and Riviera opened with it in their studios so I’d expect it to stay at the Grand Floridian when that rehab happens.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I mean, there's certainly more they *could* have done to make the room feel more richly themed in its bones:

View attachment 537948View attachment 537949View attachment 537950View attachment 537951View attachment 537952View attachment 537954View attachment 537955View attachment 537956

Now, in fairness, this below is the room we're technically in as shown in the film . . . but since liberties were clearly being taken they might as well have gone all the way. Any of the rooms above feel more like they could be in the Beast's Castle than what we got, and are a little more structurally involved while still being basically a rectangular room.

View attachment 537957

Are you calling the finishes of the walls “structural”? The structure is what does the physical work of supporting the space, it is holding it up and only the image from the film really shows anything structural. Finishes would typically be classed as decor but I think you are using that term more to refer to FF&E (fixtures, furniture & equipment).

 

[UNCgolf]

I mean, there's certainly more they *could* have done to make the room feel more richly themed in its bones:

View attachment 537948View attachment 537949View attachment 537950View attachment 537951View attachment 537952View attachment 537954View attachment 537955View attachment 537956

Now, in fairness, this below is the room we're technically in as shown in the film . . . but since liberties were clearly being taken they might as well have gone all the way. Any of the rooms above feel more like they could be in the Beast's Castle than what we got, and are a little more structurally involved while still being basically a rectangular room.

View attachment 537957

To me, almost everything you posted in those photos is decor rather than the architecture of the room itself. It's paintings, gilding, wall coverings, etc., like most of what you see in Baroque/Rococo buildings. I suppose it's arguable whether that's considered decor or something more fundamental to the room.

As I said, though, I agree they could have done more.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Are you calling the finishes of the walls “structural”? The structure is what does the physical work of supporting the space, it is holding it up and only the image from the film really shows anything structural. Finishes would typically be classed as decor but I think you are using that term more to refer to FF&E (fixtures, furniture & equipment).

I was referring more to the doorways, columns, inset ceilings, and general proportions than the finishings on the walls themselves, though I suppose I should have made that clearer in my post.

Those images were selected for the way they capture essentially the type of room Imagineering chose to construct, but they each have slightly more interesting bones despite also being basically rectangular rooms. Not so much that if emptied they'd tell the "story" on their own, but a testament to how little we got - the Enchanted Tales room feels completely bland in both structure AND contents, betraying both poor execution AND poor concept. A version of any of the rooms in my post would be a step up from what was built, even if lacking in decor the way the Wardrobe room is. At least the room itself would have a *little* bit of character built into it.

Ideally, of course, they would have made a room that was genuinely compelling on its own. At least the scene from the movie has *some* structural intrigue (though, like we're saying, it appears to be rather sparsely decorated!). Instead we got a space that feels absolutely perfunctory and barely considered.

 

[aliceismad]

But they do tend to put a rug down underneath the bedding which can be easily swapped:

Disney not doing that is just them being cheap. I don’t mind it moving around the room but I dislike feet on a cold floor in the morning.

Luxury hotels still put down carpet - Ritz Grande Lakes and Four Seasons Orlando just redid their rooms and the carpet has stayed. Grand Californian also kept carpet and Riviera opened with it in their studios so I’d expect it to stay at the Grand Floridian when that rehab happens.

Certainly some hotels use rugs or still use carpet. My preferred vacation is tropical, and many of those hotels, even at the Four Seasons and Ritz-Carlton level, have tile and no carpets. I would prefer not to have a rug. To each their own. I'm sure Disney's choice is based on cost, and I'm sure some are turned off by cold feet in the morning and a lack of perceived coziness. That's fair criticism that should be given to Disney.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Sharing a carpet used by thousands of strangers is like sharing a bed that has been used by thousands of strangers, but instead of changing the bed sheets, they only vacuum them.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I do think they're more in your face than what Disney has done at other resorts, so I can understand the complaint. They're definitely a much bigger part of the room design then the characters on the bedspread in that Grand Floridian photo, for example.

Speaking for myself, I don't really find the Cinderella characters on the Grand Floridian bedspread any better than the Moana touches to the new Polynesian rooms. Honestly a little surprised to see such elements were incorporated in the bedspread.

I am trying not to be too puritanical on this as I have also stayed at the Sequoia Lodge at DLP which had Bambi character elements and it didn't bother me too much. I also honestly like the Three Caballeros elements that have been integrated into the new Coronado Springs rooms. For the most part, though, I would prefer that the rooms were themed in the Disney style rather than being themed to Disney.

While I 100% agree with you in general, I do think there are times where the decoration is the only real way to give a room the proper theme.

I take this point, but I would probably twist the mid-twentieth century debates around interior design vs. decoration to describe how I think about this. Theming in a sense goes against modernist calls for sincerity in the use of materials and celebration of the form function relationship. However, I do think there is a resonance with the ideal of organic design meaning that architecture, ornament, and furnishings were all supposed to relate to one another and form a cohesive whole rather than involve the mere overlay of essentially interchangeable decoration schemes. The problem with the image of Enchanted Tales with Bell above is that this is obviously an example of decoration applied onto what is essentially an empty room designed to hold large theme park crowds, whereas true theming should make it appear as though the theme park experience is taking place in a room designed for other purposes.

 

[GimpYancIent]

But they do tend to put a rug down underneath the bedding which can be easily swapped:

(New rooms at the Marriott World Center, an equivalent 4 diamond property)

Disney not doing that is just them being cheap. I don’t mind it moving around the room but I dislike feet on a cold floor in the morning.

Luxury hotels still put down carpet - Ritz Grande Lakes and Four Seasons Orlando just redid their rooms and the carpet has stayed. Grand Californian also kept carpet and Riviera opened with it in their studios so I’d expect it to stay at the Grand Floridian when that rehab happens.

Wow! With the exception of the little bit of carpet that is one clean, sterile looking, clinical room. No theme here!

 

[UNCgolf]

Speaking for myself, I don't really find the Cinderella characters on the Grand Floridian bedspread any better than the Moana touches to the new Polynesian rooms. Honestly a little surprised to see such elements were incorporated in the bedspread.

I am trying not to be too puritanical on this as I have also stayed at the Sequoia Lodge at DLP which had Bambi character elements and it didn't bother me too much. I also honestly like the Three Caballeros elements that have been integrated into the new Coronado Springs rooms. For the most part, though, I would prefer that the rooms were themed in the Disney style rather than being themed to Disney.


I take this point, but I would probably twist the mid-twentieth century debates around interior design vs. decoration to describe how I think about this. Theming in a sense goes against modernist calls for sincerity in the use of materials and celebration of the form function relationship. However, I do think there is a resonance with the ideal of organic design meaning that architecture, ornament, and furnishings were all supposed to relate to one another and form a cohesive whole rather than involve the mere overlay of essentially interchangeable decoration schemes. The problem with the image of Enchanted Tales with Bell above is that this is obviously an example of decoration applied onto what is essentially an empty room designed to hold large theme park crowds, whereas true theming should make it appear as though the theme park experience is taking place in a room designed for other purposes.

I absolutely agree that the Enchanted Tales with Belle room should be much more than it is. I only meant that most of what it needs to be more effective would involve furnishings/decor rather than anything specific to the architecture of the room itself, absent perhaps the ceiling.

I think the difference between the bedspread characters and the Moana inclusion at the Polynesian is simply that the "feature wall" in the Polynesian rooms is attention grabbing in the way those old bedspreads were not. It would be relatively easy to miss the characters on a bedspread if you weren't looking for them because a bedspread is such a regular item that many people will gloss over it entirely. The wall at the Polynesian is intended to grab your attention, though -- it overshadows the rest of the room, which is why I think the room looks so much better in angles where that wall is hidden.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Sharing a carpet used by thousands of strangers is like sharing a bed that has been used by thousands of strangers, but instead of changing the bed sheets, they only vacuum them.

Absolutely correct about carpeting in hotel rooms! It does not matter how many diamonds or stars!