WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Yikes. It’s good. But not that good.
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EPCOT Reflections of Earth confirmed to be replaced by Harmonious
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
Is it worth all the barges on the lagoon?
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
No, but nothing was ever going to be.
Yeah…I agree…I thought that was a bit of stretch… when he told me… nonetheless I was surprised by the reactions in the park was vastly different then the forums
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Agreed.
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
I do have a genuine question for those who enjoy it. Do you truly enjoy it as is? Or, if it had a more cohesive narrative and connection between the songs, do you think you would like it just as much?
I say that because it seems there are two camps coming from the negativity. There is obviously the Epcot purism/non-IP argument. But, the more common issue I'm hearing is that it lacks a story or inspiration or connection to Epcot's inspiration/real world narrative. That seems easier to fix, since that's creativity and story telling - which, in theory, doesn't cost any more.
I'm almost in the camp where I would be open to seeing an "Epcot-y" version of this show (IP and all). I just want good, layered, aspirational story telling back. So, I wonder if that's the third option that could help bring everyone on board - or if the fans who like this really like something about it the way it is.
I say that because it seems there are two camps coming from the negativity. There is obviously the Epcot purism/non-IP argument. But, the more common issue I'm hearing is that it lacks a story or inspiration or connection to Epcot's inspiration/real world narrative. That seems easier to fix, since that's creativity and story telling - which, in theory, doesn't cost any more.
I'm almost in the camp where I would be open to seeing an "Epcot-y" version of this show (IP and all). I just want good, layered, aspirational story telling back. So, I wonder if that's the third option that could help bring everyone on board - or if the fans who like this really like something about it the way it is.
Jeremy Geertsema
Well-Known Member
Having now seen it in person - it is visually impressive. The aftershow as well is also well done.
I think my biggest issue is the lack of connectivity. It's like opener, song montage celebration, and closer - there's no line connecting them all. It especially seems off the rails when the Dig A Little Deeper section begins - celebrating America I guess? On their own, I believe each sequence works - just needs more flow.
As for finally seeing the barges in-person, I think the nighttime Harmonious visuals make up for their appearance in the daytime. When they begin to test the fountains in the evening prior to the show - they look decent, but I suppose it costs them money to keep them on all the time? Just keep the dang things on.
So I am on the train back home after a weekend with friends I had not been able to visit in 2 years because of the pandemic. I missed them dearly and was glad to take 3 days out of the 5 I was there to visit the parks.
Held Harmonious for my last night. As they work and are in school, they didn't want to take any time out to see the show before my visit.
We were able to secure a spot front and center at port of entry. I can't really gauge how empty the show feels without looking directly at the Stargate, but it certainly felt important from there. Pyro feels light but I can't tell if it's a pandemic thing. Soundtrack punched above my expectations but the lack of unifying theme is so obvious (an earlier post defending the choice by saying a 30 year old show that existed 3 shows ago in MK did the same is... a choice!)
The show is technically impressive but given the known financial investment and obvious uhh, onstage presence investment (?) this feels like it met a high bar it set for itself.
The theme of using Disney songs? Mixed. I think the company has told so many stories that represent or draw origins in cultures and places outside of North America and Western Europe since RoE debuted over 20 years ago. That being said, a very well executed sequence pulled from the Princess and the Frog felt so out of place. Nothing in EPCOT evokes the American South. The castle parks do. The mainline Disney princesses (from Western European stories and fables) lived on the periphery of EPCOT for years but now feel like invaders unsatisfied with owning the castle park. How have we not reached The Lion King fatigue yet? Mind-blowing that it made it in the show.
I guess I need to disclose how much of a weirdo I am. The first product I purchased at WDW with my own (allowance) money in elementary school was the Reflections of Earth CD. I don't think that meant RoE needed to stay forever, I think it needed a sequel. EPCOT deserves a technically impressive and large scale show. If Magic Kingdom is a celebration of the work that brought the parks to life, EPCOT should be a standard for what the division can achieve.
The World Showcase is the largest single "stage" on property (I guess if you went through a Traditions class, you would say that the whole guest facing property is onstage, but I hope you understand what I mean). A picturesque vista from anywhere across the sprawling lagoon indefinitely marred by these hulking structures. They are far more imposing and noticeable while in the park during the day than any picture can capture. The decision to shrink the stage of the World Showcase lagoon into the 5 black monoliths in the dead center of the water was made by people who frankly have never been to EPCOT as a guest. I'm not levying any purity/litmus test to EPCOT in 1982, but I mean even as a cast member who takes a free day to stroll around the park. It's baffling. If you move these structures to the edge feature around the RoL seating in Animal Kingdom, you're cooking with gas.
I don't really know what to expect over the next 6 months to 16 years with this, but those floats simply can't stay in the lagoon that long. I refuse to believe it.
Held Harmonious for my last night. As they work and are in school, they didn't want to take any time out to see the show before my visit.
We were able to secure a spot front and center at port of entry. I can't really gauge how empty the show feels without looking directly at the Stargate, but it certainly felt important from there. Pyro feels light but I can't tell if it's a pandemic thing. Soundtrack punched above my expectations but the lack of unifying theme is so obvious (an earlier post defending the choice by saying a 30 year old show that existed 3 shows ago in MK did the same is... a choice!)
The show is technically impressive but given the known financial investment and obvious uhh, onstage presence investment (?) this feels like it met a high bar it set for itself.
The theme of using Disney songs? Mixed. I think the company has told so many stories that represent or draw origins in cultures and places outside of North America and Western Europe since RoE debuted over 20 years ago. That being said, a very well executed sequence pulled from the Princess and the Frog felt so out of place. Nothing in EPCOT evokes the American South. The castle parks do. The mainline Disney princesses (from Western European stories and fables) lived on the periphery of EPCOT for years but now feel like invaders unsatisfied with owning the castle park. How have we not reached The Lion King fatigue yet? Mind-blowing that it made it in the show.
I guess I need to disclose how much of a weirdo I am. The first product I purchased at WDW with my own (allowance) money in elementary school was the Reflections of Earth CD. I don't think that meant RoE needed to stay forever, I think it needed a sequel. EPCOT deserves a technically impressive and large scale show. If Magic Kingdom is a celebration of the work that brought the parks to life, EPCOT should be a standard for what the division can achieve.
The World Showcase is the largest single "stage" on property (I guess if you went through a Traditions class, you would say that the whole guest facing property is onstage, but I hope you understand what I mean). A picturesque vista from anywhere across the sprawling lagoon indefinitely marred by these hulking structures. They are far more imposing and noticeable while in the park during the day than any picture can capture. The decision to shrink the stage of the World Showcase lagoon into the 5 black monoliths in the dead center of the water was made by people who frankly have never been to EPCOT as a guest. I'm not levying any purity/litmus test to EPCOT in 1982, but I mean even as a cast member who takes a free day to stroll around the park. It's baffling. If you move these structures to the edge feature around the RoL seating in Animal Kingdom, you're cooking with gas.
I don't really know what to expect over the next 6 months to 16 years with this, but those floats simply can't stay in the lagoon that long. I refuse to believe it.
Communicora
Premium Member
I'm seeing videos of Harmonious on YouTube. Perhaps the creator you watched pulled their video.
No, did some digging. Seems like Harm had copyright issues with UMG now. Honestly!
So here’s my review of the show and how I would improve it. In short it stumbles early, but really comes together when it starts to focus on stories told by the actual WS pavilions (the Coco section is fantastic) and the finale just knocks it out of the park. Also, I agree the post show is beautiful and I’ll plan on sticking around for it when I watch it. For those of you complaining about the pyro this show absolutely has more power then illuminations ever did. That volley of perimeter shots is just amazing.
So onto my complaints, it took until the finale for me to figure out what this shows theme was, mainly the stories told around the world. I also do not like that there is so many sections containing stories not from countries represented in WS, in particular Jungle Book which is not Indian in the slightest. Richard Kipling was a British colonialist. Ok I’m going to play Steve Davidson and write a better more appropriate Harmonious for Epcot:
Intro Section: To start all the lights but the torches go out as the small rosette of fountains in the center get lit red and cave man appear on the tacos. Then suddenly a voice calls out “Tonight we gather here around the fire as people have gathered for thousands and thousands of years before, to share a light and to share a story. For to know the stories of this planet is to know the people of this planet.” Then the torches extinshed and the lights go out.
African Outpost Section: Cue the Circle of Life section from the show, but have a vocalist do the first verse and then the final chorus as we won’t be doing Hauluna Matta later.
Norway: Just like in the show we do the opening chant but after that we get a rendition of Into the Unknown both to increase the Norway section and highlight an obvious story trope.
Morroco: Just like in the show we start with Arabian Nights (so we can get the lamp effect) but then we transition into Prince Ali, so we can highlight another way we tell stories (a parade.)
China: Unchanged Mulan Section
Italy: My first new section, there is only one musical from Italy in the Disney cannon (and I can’t think of a way to have a Luca fit the story theme) but since the wooden puppet has no ride in the MK I think it’s ok to use him here. We cut to the stargate displaying a bright star in the center as an accordion plays WYWUS as we then descend to a stage and are treated to I got no strings number that ends with a crash. That way we have a song that highlights the theatre as a way to tell a story.
Canada: We return to the fire as Great Spirts from Brother Bear plays and then transitions to the Welcome/Family song. With sections in an Inuit language. This section ends with a bear doing a cannonball.
United States: I think the PatF section is great and I’m going to leave it unchanged, but it shouldn’t be the final section of the show because it gets outshined by the Coco section (spoiler for my final section.)
Germany: This one is hard because much like England (we’re going there soon) the stories are so heavily used in MK that it makes them untouchable. However, Tangled, does not have a ride. We start as lantern starts to rise as we get a full orchestra playing an instrumental version of At Last I See the Light, and then we transition to the Snuggly Duckling to highlight the “bar story” with a I Have a Dream section.
Japan: This is the one country that doesn’t have a Disney movie you can insert in so I’m a bit lost. I still haven’t seen Spirited Away but I have heard really good things and Disney I believe does US distribution, help me out, would it work?
UK: I like the Brave section, it should stay but it seems wrong to not have an English story too. However the MK ride rule is still in effect so the only musical left is one that will get fans to cheer, after Brave we suddenly here an automobile engine throttle as we transition into Merrily on our Way to no where in particular, to highlight road stories. Ends with a crash
France: I like using Hunchback, but not Out there and we are ditching BatB. This section now starts with church bells as the rose window appears and an Instrumental version of the Bells of Notre Dame play and we pan up to a silhouette of Quasi ringing the bells like in the movie, but then the music fades as we decend to the alter and we get a rendition of God Help the Outcast (to not offend the atheists we will make sure the chorus is in French, and a section should be in Romani too) and we get a more mellow beat to really highlight the fountains along with some “weeping willow” fireworks. This highlights religious stories without being obvious.
Mexico: Coco, unchanged
Finale: Unchanged
Finally while I know we can’t move things back and forth, I would add 3 more Stargates facing the cardinal directions to make this show 360 and center it for Pete sakes in line with SE and AA, and if I’m really greedy, have the star-gate on a hinge so it lies flat during the day.
Oh and it goes without saying, each country gets lit up during its section. It’s time to upgrade Norway, and if Morocco can’t have the popcorn lights for religious reasons it at least gets some spotlights.
So onto my complaints, it took until the finale for me to figure out what this shows theme was, mainly the stories told around the world. I also do not like that there is so many sections containing stories not from countries represented in WS, in particular Jungle Book which is not Indian in the slightest. Richard Kipling was a British colonialist. Ok I’m going to play Steve Davidson and write a better more appropriate Harmonious for Epcot:
Intro Section: To start all the lights but the torches go out as the small rosette of fountains in the center get lit red and cave man appear on the tacos. Then suddenly a voice calls out “Tonight we gather here around the fire as people have gathered for thousands and thousands of years before, to share a light and to share a story. For to know the stories of this planet is to know the people of this planet.” Then the torches extinshed and the lights go out.
African Outpost Section: Cue the Circle of Life section from the show, but have a vocalist do the first verse and then the final chorus as we won’t be doing Hauluna Matta later.
Norway: Just like in the show we do the opening chant but after that we get a rendition of Into the Unknown both to increase the Norway section and highlight an obvious story trope.
Morroco: Just like in the show we start with Arabian Nights (so we can get the lamp effect) but then we transition into Prince Ali, so we can highlight another way we tell stories (a parade.)
China: Unchanged Mulan Section
Italy: My first new section, there is only one musical from Italy in the Disney cannon (and I can’t think of a way to have a Luca fit the story theme) but since the wooden puppet has no ride in the MK I think it’s ok to use him here. We cut to the stargate displaying a bright star in the center as an accordion plays WYWUS as we then descend to a stage and are treated to I got no strings number that ends with a crash. That way we have a song that highlights the theatre as a way to tell a story.
Canada: We return to the fire as Great Spirts from Brother Bear plays and then transitions to the Welcome/Family song. With sections in an Inuit language. This section ends with a bear doing a cannonball.
United States: I think the PatF section is great and I’m going to leave it unchanged, but it shouldn’t be the final section of the show because it gets outshined by the Coco section (spoiler for my final section.)
Germany: This one is hard because much like England (we’re going there soon) the stories are so heavily used in MK that it makes them untouchable. However, Tangled, does not have a ride. We start as lantern starts to rise as we get a full orchestra playing an instrumental version of At Last I See the Light, and then we transition to the Snuggly Duckling to highlight the “bar story” with a I Have a Dream section.
Japan: This is the one country that doesn’t have a Disney movie you can insert in so I’m a bit lost. I still haven’t seen Spirited Away but I have heard really good things and Disney I believe does US distribution, help me out, would it work?
UK: I like the Brave section, it should stay but it seems wrong to not have an English story too. However the MK ride rule is still in effect so the only musical left is one that will get fans to cheer, after Brave we suddenly here an automobile engine throttle as we transition into Merrily on our Way to no where in particular, to highlight road stories. Ends with a crash
France: I like using Hunchback, but not Out there and we are ditching BatB. This section now starts with church bells as the rose window appears and an Instrumental version of the Bells of Notre Dame play and we pan up to a silhouette of Quasi ringing the bells like in the movie, but then the music fades as we decend to the alter and we get a rendition of God Help the Outcast (to not offend the atheists we will make sure the chorus is in French, and a section should be in Romani too) and we get a more mellow beat to really highlight the fountains along with some “weeping willow” fireworks. This highlights religious stories without being obvious.
Mexico: Coco, unchanged
Finale: Unchanged
Finally while I know we can’t move things back and forth, I would add 3 more Stargates facing the cardinal directions to make this show 360 and center it for Pete sakes in line with SE and AA, and if I’m really greedy, have the star-gate on a hinge so it lies flat during the day.
Oh and it goes without saying, each country gets lit up during its section. It’s time to upgrade Norway, and if Morocco can’t have the popcorn lights for religious reasons it at least gets some spotlights.
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Vinnie Mac
Well-Known Member
Not gonna make my official review until I see the show in person for the first time later this week.
I will say though I (for the most part) agree with your review.
An interesting point I wanted to mention is that in today's world of political tension, I'm a little bit surprised HarmonioUS hasn't managed to offend anyone (yet). With the references to god and the use of PATF to represent America, I almost expected some complaints but I'm glad there isn't any. I'm thinking that finale might've worked on people lol.
mergatroid
Well-Known Member
From what I can see online there's a lot of love for this new show. I've already stated I like the look of it, but have any of those on here (where there's seemingly loads) who've slated it changed their minds?
Vinnie Mac
Well-Known Member
Gonna be honest, as someone who's been a staunch supporter of Harmonious since the day it was rumored, I surprised my own self when I felt genuine disappointment after watching the live stream. As I was watching the first 3 minutes I remember saying to my family "I already like this better than Illuminations".
Then the show ends and I feel quite empty and also disappointed. I think what happened was a combination of my excitement for something I've been looking forward to for a number of years peaking and then the feedback I saw online really messed with my mind. It took me 4 days to actually figure out my opinion on the show.
Fast forward about 29 days later and this show has officially become my religion.
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mergatroid
Well-Known Member
I didn't watch the live broadcast of it first, but rather a private recording the day after it debuted. I loved it from that and then watched a recording of Disney's live stream and was surprised how they filmed it so badly, even from multiple camera angles. That seemed bizarre to me as you'd think their live stream which was directed by a professional should have been superior. I actual feel it's got an Epcot feel to it myself. I know it includes IP's which some hate but they're slightly different versions and I don't mind that.
It also has a rather 'Cirque Du Soleil' feel to the start of it if that resonates with anybody? My wife and I love Cirque, especially the late 'La Nouba' show and this feels that way when it starts. I was very surprised by the apparent delight people took in hating it on here as I deliberately watched it before seeing what those on here thought. I was actually expecting to read many positive replies but instead it seemed to get hammered to pieces with just the odd like here and there. Looking forward to seeing it in person next March when we come along with the new Cirque offering 'Drawn to Life'.
Vinnie Mac
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's insane how much camera angles changes how one views a show online. Disney's livestream was horrible, it literally took a video from a non-official channel to give me a general atmosphere of the show.
Finally someone who thinks this as well, the show felt Epcot to me as well. Especially some of the little bits in the music, like the intense part of the Mulan segment. The music and the pyro felt impactful and strong and struck me in a similar way that the opening segment of Illuminations did with its intensity. The finale also felt very Epcot to me. The shooting star firework transitioning into the laser heart projection transitioning into one of the "wow" moments of the show with the pyro shooting off the barge arms literally gives me chills anytime I see it on video. The type of pyro used in the PATF segment reminded me of the "Celebration" segment in Illuminations.
Yeah the show did give off a Cirque type feeling in the beginning. I thought the opening segment was beautiful. It sets this adventurous and curious tone for the show.
I wasn't surprised to see the amount of negative feedback on this forum. This show was getting hate since the day it was said that there would be IP involved. Then again you also have to remember that those on this forum really represent a small minority of opinions. The general public is literally in love with this show. It's getting the type of feedback that HEA got when it debuted from the public. Anytime I watch a live stream of the show, the crowd reactions are strong (which was not always the case until the end for Illuminations).
brb1006
Well-Known Member
Disney lost the distribution rights to Spirited Away and other Ghibli films years ago.
I’m not sure what else to put in here, Nintendo is out. Some other child friendly anime that has music? I don’t know much anime.